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  1. #1
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    second thoughts....

    i'm having second thoughts.... thinking perhaps i should have 2.0TFSI instead of TDI 170?????

    hmmmmmmmmmm.....
    Last edited by steve184; 18th December 2006 at 20:50. Reason: spelling error!

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  3. #2
    Why are you having second thoughts?
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

  4. #3
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    dunno really... just wondring if i'm willing to trade in the diesel clatter for something a bit more quiet and more powerful? (albeit moreexpensive to run on fuel)

    i dunno really

  5. #4
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    If you cover less than 15K miles per year get the petrol.

    Don't really listen to me has I cover lots of miles but still drive petrol! I don't really care as I really like petrol engines. For me doesn't make a big difference between spending 200 or 400 per month in fuel.

    Pedro

    P.S.: Keep the TDI if you want to be rational, buy the petrol if your emotions have a role in your life!
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

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    To be honest, I don't think there will be that much difference in MPG between the TFSI and the 170 TDI. I wouldn't describe the 170 as great on fuel, average in mine is 43 MPG now. I reckon I could get about the same in the petrol for the type of commuter driving I mainly do in the car.
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  7. #6
    windsurfer

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    Hey PJLarge don't you miss your Pug some days? I had a 106 XSI and that car was great!

    Pedro (sorry could not help the off topic!)
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    Hey PJLarge don't you miss your Pug some days? I had a 106 XSI and that car was great!

    Pedro (sorry could not help the off topic!)
    I've still got it - it's the Mrs' runabout. It's in too good condition to let it go (been in the family for 6 years or so) so I still get to give it a run and clear the cobwebs frequently. It's pretty quick for what it is once you wind it up beyond 4500 rpm through to the limiter, but there's no torque so you have to drive it hard to get the best from it. Compared to other cars I've had it's slow, but the engine is so rev happy it's a rewarding drive. The handling is sweet though.

    Phil.
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  9. #8
    windsurfer

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    Yeah! But driving that little Pug at 130mph is not for the faint hearted! Lovely little car!

    Pedro
    FOR SALE: S3 Phantom Black, left hand drive, Xenons, FBMFSW, bucket seats, BOSE, rear parking sensors, armrest, interior light package, Symphony II+. Full Audi service history and 4 new Michelin Pilot Sport 2. 18500 miles PM for details! I want to give it away have a good family reason. For a quick sale around 19.5k PM only if interest is genuine! Thanks

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    I've not had it that fast - you feel very vulnerable in it when you're going at high speed - there's not a lot of metal around you in there! (and it's French...)
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  11. #10
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    nah i dont do many miles at all really and most of my driving is round town so i suspect i will get 40mpg versus 25-28 in the petrol i would have thought

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    I have a 140TDi remapped to about 180-185BHP and get around just under 40MPG for driving around town with average driving. Obviously put your foot down and that goes out the window!
    A3 2.0TDi Sport, Mauritius Blue, Xenons, Black Leather/Alcantara, BOSE, Heated Seats, Parking Sensors, Light/Rain Sensor Pack, Interior Light Pack, Armrests.

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    When i bought my TFSI i had doubts over if i should have got the diesel but after almost 4wks of ownership i don't have any doubts one bit

    After getting the TFSI i was getting a miserable 28mpg combined driving, now i have learnt how to use the engine's torque and power properly, ie, not reving the crap out of it, i now get 29mpg when i am pushing it and an easy 35-36mpg on a motorway run and combined i easily get 32-33mpg which is extremely good for a Quattro.

    Diesels are good for motorway runs as you can easily see 500miles to a tank? I can squeeeeeeeeeeeeze 380ish miles out of a tank on a motorway run and around 340-350miles combined driving.

    I love the TFSI engine, its soooooo flexible EVERYwhere you use it, town, country roads, motorways......it also sound brilliant when you give it some beans, something that i can't say a diesel can do when given beans.

    I think before you get yourself into a knot use the diesel for a few more weeks and see how it suits you, if you are still wondering then go to the dealers and try a TFSI out and see what you think.

    It took me a couple of weeks to really find out if i made the right choice and after those weeks i am 100% sure that petrol is more suited to my driving style and needs.

    I do around 12-13k miles a year so thats why i was thinking a diesel would have been better but nope TFSI all the way!

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    i'm having second thoughts.... thinking perhaps i should have 2.0TFSI instead of TDI 170?????

    hmmmmmmmmmm.....
    Well, the 2.0T is a glorious engine !
    Very smooth and refined - you could be forgiven for thinking it is a 6-pot at times. And strong torque right from 1000-5000 rpm.

    Downside is the fuel consumption of course.
    I get around 29mpg on short (10 min) journeys to work, but 35-38mpg on long runs.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbiecrg
    Hey PJLarge don't you miss your Pug some days? I had a 106 XSI and that car was great!
    I had a 106XSI too!

    (Wasn't mine you had was it? N681TOA in Diablo Red)

  16. #15
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    but then i'm taking other things into account too - looking at price guides which are available now a 2.0TFSI at just over 12 months old and a TDI 170 (based on 140 but with 800 added to RRP) the deisel will be worth 1200 more (and thats just 12 months not 3 years and this is with the 2.0TFSI being approx 350 more than the diesel when new)

    no think ive made my mind up! lol bring on the bluefin TDI 210!!!!!!

  17. #16
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    Things are going 'weird' in the diesel market,especially for private buyers.
    The gap between petrol and diesel engine economy is closing,to the point where it is getting harder to justify diesel engines on economy alone,which was always the unarguable point.
    When the difference between a 140/170bhp diesel and a 200bhp petrol boils down to less than 10mpg,it makes you wonder,as there can be little argument over which is the better engine !
    Diesels will always be preferred by company car buyers though,because of their reduced CO2 emissions and their subsequent reduction in tax.

    I know I struggle to get the low 40's from my diesel,whereas my mate regularly gets 35mpg from his Alfa 156.

    So that's my diesel's primary advantage practically negated right there.
    Last edited by Amchlolor; 19th December 2006 at 14:24.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve184
    but then i'm taking other things into account too - looking at price guides which are available now a 2.0TFSI at just over 12 months old and a TDI 170 (based on 140 but with 800 added to RRP) the deisel will be worth 1200 more (and thats just 12 months not 3 years and this is with the 2.0TFSI being approx 350 more than the diesel when new)

    no think ive made my mind up! lol bring on the bluefin TDI 210!!!!!!
    Diesels have historically always 'held their value' better than petrols, but another issue to consider in this case is the arrival of the new VAG common rail diesels for MY 2008.

    Assuming VAG get it right (!), the old PD diesels will inevitably take a hit on value when the new engines come in.

  19. #18
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    I guess at the end of the day it depends on what you want from a car, if you want good economy and low fuel costs then diesel is the way forward

    if you want flexible engine and a engine that will entertain you on the road then i guess petrol is the way forward

    what i don't like about the diesel is the fact that there is a MASSIVE lump of torque and then nothing until the next gear change

  20. #19
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    The CO2 tax gap is closing too as EU4 diesels regained the 3% levy this year that they'd been excused for the past few years and petrols are getting more efficient with regards to emissions.

    Still, as I've said before, fuel and tax would equate to around £100 extra per month for me on the 2.0T over the TDI 170 which is still a not inconsiderable amount. I think if it gets much lower than this, so that the differential is nearer the £50 per month mark, then diesels will start taking a major hit as a lot of company car users will go back to petrol. When this happens the residual values of diesels will be hit even harder.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo1
    The CO2 tax gap is closing too as EU4 diesels regained the 3% levy this year that they'd been excused for the past few years and petrols are getting more efficient with regards to emissions.

    Still, as I've said before, fuel and tax would equate to around 100 extra per month for me on the 2.0T over the TDI 170 which is still a not inconsiderable amount. I think if it gets much lower than this, so that the differential is nearer the 50 per month mark, then diesels will start taking a major hit as a lot of company car users will go back to petrol. When this happens the residual values of diesels will be hit even harder.
    Your average premium diesel ( BMW320,Audi A3/A4,Saab,Honda etc.) is still around the 150-160 CO2 mark.
    You can't get a decent petrol anywhere near that,yet.
    I believe the NA Fsi is close,but that's such a gutless engine it's a shame.
    Audi have stated they want as many of their petrols to get down to the 140 mark within the forseeable future though.
    At that point,as you say,company car buyers will start flocking back to petrols,unless of course diesels go down by the same margin !
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    bowfer i do not believe for one minute i would get 35mpg around town out of a 2.0TFSI as opposed to i KNOW for a fact i will get pretty much 40MPG around town from the diesel (worst case scenario - stop start traffic etc). There is no point in comparing a petrol best economy (good mway run) with diesels worst economy (around town) its just not a proper comparison, cane a diesel around town and ull struggle to get lower than 35 - cane a 2.0 turbo petrol and i bet you could get it down to 17's easy enough - that is 50% of the fuel consumption - yet ur getting there 85% as fast... simple maths - they will NEVER make petrol as economical as diesel it just isn't and never will be possible because the same technology they use on one they can use on the other and hence the divide will always remain.

    I read somewhere once that the only reason diesels don't make as much 'horsepower' is because they only rev to 60-70% percent the speed of petrols - and i remember reading somewhere once that there were manufacturers working on a diesel which in theory could rev up to 10,000rpm - think this was by having electric actuated valves as opposed to cam driven ones (think it was honda)

  23. #22
    Really when comparing fuel consumption figures you can only use figures that have been measured in exactly the same way. The figures the manufacturers have to provide have to be tested in accordance with an EU standard and are as follows for the standard Urban, Extra Urban and Combined values:

    2.0TFSI manual - 26.2 / 47.1 / 36.2
    2.0TDI-140 manual - 40.4 / 61.4 / 51.4
    2.0TDI-170 manual - 36.2 / 61.4 / 48.7
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    I had an S3 for 3 years as a company car, as the tax laws changed I reluctantly went the diesel route - hated diesels with a passion (from a tax perspective - saved £140 p/m against the s3).

    I now have a tdi 140, tbh apart from the traction & the standing starts, don't miss the S3 at all.

    The new A3 chassis is so much improved, ok the damping no where near the S3 (plus a bit boaty around the corners & nose heavy under heavy breaking) but it has excellent mid range & is a great cruiser.

    It's nearly done 60K miles & the DIS always reads late 40's early 50's

    I do 35K a year so it makes sense also

  25. #24
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    I don't get anywhere near those figures on MPG, 26 average. The other day after been stuck in gridlock for an hour it was reading 15mpg....
    2.0T Quattro SLine, now 320d Sport Touring

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by d3fy
    I don't get anywhere near those figures on MPG, 26 average. The other day after been stuck in gridlock for an hour it was reading 15mpg....
    is your engine still quite new?

    i was getting ave 28mpg when i bought it with 5600 miles on the clock and it was driven by a old man and since i have done 2k miles in it i have seen a much better mpg ave 32ish

    its also feeling much much looser as well

  27. #26
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    11k on the clock
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  28. #27
    nb
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    how do you guys drive to get 35 out of a 2.0t??!! and quattro'd too!! is it like clarkson when he did that london to edinburgh drive - not going over 1500rpm!!
    i have never ever hit an average in the 30's and i have covered 20k of mainly motorway miles
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  29. #28
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    The best ive seen out of mine is 28mpg@85mph with three of us in the car. It averages 25-26mpg with normal driving(although i dont hang about).
    Now:BMW 530d M-sport tourer. Then:Lava Grey A3 Sportback S-line 2.0TFSI Quattro, S-line Special Edition, Xenon Plus, Leather, Light and Rain Pack, Interior light Pack, Bose, DVD Nav+, Bluetooth, Multifunction wheel,Cruise, Heated Front Seats, Folding Mirrors, Rear Parking Sensor and some other bits.

  30. #29
    nb
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    Very poorly A3 at the moment..........

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    i presume you guys are talking about the total average for the whole tank??
    dandle i'm with you mate - i always try to be conservative when just filled up and see the dis creep up to 350-400 miles if i am taking it easy, but as soon as that accelerator is touched that figure seems to spiral downwards pretty quickly and i think sod it - next time will be more strict with the old right foot
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  31. #30
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    With a steady run with town driving around 30mph (without many stops) and mostly A roads at 60-70mph, plus a bit of careful reading-of-the-road ahead to know when to back off and use engine breaking, I have no problem seeing 32-33 mpg. And that's in my 3.2
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  32. #31
    nb
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    Very poorly A3 at the moment..........

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    good work mate!! wish i could be so disciplined!!
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  33. #32
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    I run a diesel for work, my car on the opt out scheme, but this is more of I have to run diesel than want to due to 30,000 miles a year.

    But when we ordered the A3, my wife thought the 2.0 TDi would be better, it is here car after all, but no way, considering she does about 7000 miles a year I would not have anything less than a 2.0T.

    Modern day diesels are brilliant don't get me wrong, my Vectra is running a proven 196bhp and 323lb/ft, and it is quicker than our 2.0T FSI mid range, but diesel's will never make drivers cars.

    If the extra bit of fuel does not bother you then get the petrol.
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  34. #33
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    Having driven both i think the Petrol to be the better car and if you aint doing astronomical miles then the diesel aint worth it. I do about 4000 miles a year but i have a heavy right foot and the last time i was home i was getting 200 miles to 45 pound of v power which aint great lol


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    Wo! Have had a 2l TFSI Quattro S-Line SE since March and have done 20000 miles now. It had its first service Dec 1st at 18200 miles.

    Average on the DIS for its life is 32.0mpg. If you drive 1 mile to work, you will get 15mpg no questions. If you drive 20 miles to work you can get anything from 29-40mpg depending upon the traffic.

    I had a 1.8T for a few days and off throttle its not as efficient as being in gear off throttle as the TFSI engine (that must be lean burn then).

    I think the throttle is electric not wire and so leaning on it off boost opening the throttle just pisses fuel in, so I barely touch it when driving. This can account for quite a difference in consumption.

    Tank wise mainly get about 410-420 per tank. Though having had my car at Audi for 2 days to fix some rattles it went down to 380 this time and the DIS went down to 31.8 hmmmmmm

  36. #35
    nb
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    Very poorly A3 at the moment..........

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    and who said dealers drive cars respectfully!!! they thrash the ar@e off them i reckon.....bit of a generalisation i know but whenever i drive something different i.e. hire car, lets just say it is driven hard.........depending what it is of course
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    You can imagine it, 'yes Sir you car drifts perfectly naturally'....'but I only asked you to replace the glovebox!

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    This is an interesting topic. I'm debating whether to go for the 2.0TDi 170 Quattro or the 2.0T Quattro S-line. I currently do 19000 miles a year so its borderline for TDi imho. Although my A4 did an average of 44mpg I never thought it was as great as it could've been unless I was driving like my foot was on top of a mine!

    Some pros/cons I've worked out;

    Pros

    2.0T: Fantastic engine note, quiet, nice power range, cheaper to buy than TDi equivilant, even Optimax is 3p a litre cheaper than Diesel! Fast

    2.0TDi: Will easily do 40mpg+ without even trying, cheap tax, cheaper insurance, powerful as I need (although not as I want ;-) ),

    Cons:

    2.0T: Worries about fuel consumption, higher tax, higher insurance.

    2.0TDi: Engine noise, possible concerns about future resale value with rising Diesel prices, sounds like a tractor and will ultimately not be as much fun to drive as a petrol.


    It sounds like I'm already sold on the petrol which I probably am, I just need reasuring about the costs I guess
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  39. #38
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    if you do 19000 miles and you are concerned about fuel costs then diesel is the only way to go

    but if you enjoy driving and can afford the fuel prices then the petrol is the one to have.

    the engine is simply awesome, i love it to bits.

    ps, nelson did you own a Polo once?

  40. #39
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    this thread also makes good reading

    Have i made the wrong choice?

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinA3
    what i don't like about the diesel is the fact that there is a MASSIVE lump of torque and then nothing until the next gear change
    A good remap can help that!
    A3 2.0TDi Sport, Mauritius Blue, Xenons, Black Leather/Alcantara, BOSE, Heated Seats, Parking Sensors, Light/Rain Sensor Pack, Interior Light Pack, Armrests.

 

 
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