h5djr said:They reckon that a manual gearbox is the best solution for a car with the character of the S3
For the record, DSG is nothing like F1 'boxes. Dual-clutches are banned in F1.dpeilow said:I say if it is good enough for Michael Schumacher then it should be good enough for me
Vertigo1 said:For the record, DSG is nothing like F1 'boxes. Dual-clutches are banned in F1.
I'm afraid I have to agree with bowfer on the DSG. I couldn't understand what he was on about at first and was sure I'd want it in my next car, then I spent a couple of hours in one and just couldn't get on with it. Nice smooth changes when pressing on but far far too hesitant pulling away or when "stamping on it".
The basic problem is that, no matter how clever the gearbox is, it can't read your mind and has to react to your actions whereas with a manual you can pre-empt manouvres. This will never change.
auroan said:Have any of you thought about the fact that it might not fit under the bonnet. If the config of the engine has changed to produce the 260 odd bhp, then maybe they can't actually fit the dsg box in. Look under the bonnet of a car with dsg then a car without, you'll see how much space dsg takes up
stevec said:Have you guys driven the DSG box? I was impressed until I came to go down a hill. The box kept shifting up a gear, which meant I had to keep changing up a gear after realising the reason I was speeding up was due to the DSG!
If DSG came to the S3 I think that it would need some engineering first, as I don't fancy hammering around a corner downhill with haldex and ESP working their heart out and then the DSG box deciding I want to change gear... Eeek!
10 minutes going down a hill pretty much decided for me that if I get an S3 (for the moment) it was not worth spending, what is it, around £1.5K? Just to speed up in corners down hill.
Don't get me wrong, I was impressed by the DSG box, but after the amusement of paddle shift wore off after an hours drive, involuntarily speeding up down a hill was the deciding factor...
bowfer said:I think the biggest problem with DSG lies when it's installed into turbo cars.
A driver doesn't have the option of increasing the revs/ slipping the clutch to get around turbo lag,so you end up with the dreaded and downright dangerous 'DSG delay'.
You put your foot down and feck all happens.
How's an S3 driver going to feel about that ?
How do I feel about that,in my lowly diesel ?
Bleedin frustrated as hell.
The auto change up at redline is also intensely annoying,but that could be sorted by a software change.
As someone stated above,an S3 driver (I would argue any driver) doesn't want the car to change itself up a gear halfway around a corner.
I'm pretty convinced they've decided that DSG and turbos simply don't mix in a sporty driving scenario.
The box has too many compromises.
I can only applaud them for having the guts to admit it,as that is very much to their credit.
stevec said:Have you guys driven the DSG box? I was impressed until I came to go down a hill. The box kept shifting up a gear, which meant I had to keep changing up a gear after realising the reason I was speeding up was due to the DSG!
Hmmm. It's a bit hard to understand their reasoning there, given that the new tiTTy is available with DSG.h5djr said:....An intresting point towards end of the article is where he asks some of Audi's marketing team whether there would be an S-tronic(DSG) gearbox and a Sportback version. The answer was no on both accounts. They reckon that a manual gearbox is the best solution for a car with the character of the S3, but it may be that there is so much call on Audi's development engineer's that the package has been kept relatively simple.
Interesting observation.bowfer said:I'm pretty convinced they've decided that DSG and turbos simply don't mix in a sporty driving scenario.
Lenaldo said:Seems to me that if you need to perpetually keep slipping the clutch to get away quick and drive at the rev-limiter round corners then you need a faster car, not a manual gearbox which would allow you to abuse the one you've already got
bowfer said:I have to go for a diesel for tax reasons.
Should that mean I can't drive it to the max ?
I should just potter around should I ?
Hardly.
Bottom line is,DSG is severely flawed for anything above 7/10 driving.
Audi evidently agree.
They expect the S3 to be driven hard and admit DSG is not suited to that.
Simple as.
Lenaldo said:I'm afraid i think that the last example puts the nail in the coffin of your claims.
bowfer said:Nail in the coffin of my claims ?
So DSG delay and the auto change-up are figments of my imagination ?
Look through the past threads on this forum.
I think you'll find there are plenty who agree with me,especially about the downright dangerous DSG delay (copyright,me)
I'll also give you an example of when 10/10ths driving and the auto change-up bugs the crap out of me.
It's an example I've cited before.
I will be thrashing over a country road,with short straights between corners.
These short straights will not require a gearchange.
The same gear will do me fine,from accelerating zone to braking zone.
Ooooh nooo though,not with DSG....
DSG will decide it wants to change up just as I'm going to brake.
Annoying,unnecessary,pedantic.
You choose.
That a good enough scenario for you ?
We'll never know why Audi aren't fitting it to the S3 ?
Eh ?
They've told us why not !
They feel it doesn't fit in with the sort of driving an S3 offers.
What type of driving is that then ?
I would suggest sporty driving,where the driver wants to be in full control.
Not pseudo sporty driving,within a strictly computer-controlled rev range.
It's as close as you'll get to Audi admitting DSG is flawed for sporty driving,so I cannot possibly see why you can argue with it,as you're arguing against Audi themselves.
Like I said before,hats off to whoever decided driving was more important than marketing though.
marriedblonde said:Ah the good old DSG verses manual debate still rages on...
The last time I read a post like this people where discussing the merits of colours of cars
J.
Tim Stuart said:I don't get it - Bowfer's is silver....
h5djr said:DSG works correctly in any colour car. It just does not work how Bowfer wants it to!
bowfer said:I would say their decision undermines DSG across the range.
I would say their decision undermines DSG across the range.
h5djr said:Personally I think the main reason that Audi are not making the DSG available for the S3 is that they do not think it is good use of their engineers time for a car that will be produced is such small numbers compared with other A3s.
h5djr said:Only if you assume that everyone who buys a DSG equipped A3 or TT wants to drive it in the same way as you.
If I am to reverse your argument around,you continually try to tell us that DSG is wonderful because you like it,despite loads of people agreeing that it has foibles.