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  1. #1
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    New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    I thought I'd start a little debate!

    I have owned my S3 since 2000, and was looking forward to replacing it with the new version when it comes out, even though I'm getting well p'd off with the length of time Audi is taking to launch the new car. I mean, there hasn't been a new S3 on sale for nearly 3 years now, for goodness' sake! (Do they want to lose customers?)

    Anyway, yesterday I wandered into the local VW dealer whilst on a mission to assist my Polo-owning mother. Big mistake. In there was a brand new R32 Golf, with all the options (including DSG, which I wanted on the new S3 but guess what, Audi aren't offering at launch!!) Temptation got the better of me, and I got a test drive. Now, I've always been a fan of V6 engines, and I was disappointed when Audi announced that the new S3 would be a 4-cylinder. The R32 reminded me why. It was simply awesome. Bags of torque, great handling, and great noise from the engine. I always thought the S3 had one of the best driving environments of any car I've ever driven, but it was beaten by the R32. The Recaro seats were amazing (much grippier and sportier than the Recaros in the S3), the driving position and instruments were spot-on, and overall it just felt a bigger, roomier, more substantial car than my current S3 (which feels small by comparison although I know the figures say it's not really that much smaller), and from what I've seen from the spy pictures, the new S3 too. Also, the steering wheel looked like it had come from a race car; one of the nicest I've ever used, particularly in "Tiptronic" mode.

    I am now in serious doubt as to where my next car will come from. I had previously been eagerly waiting for the new S3 not wanting anything else. Now (and I know this is utter heresy from a dyed-in-the-wool S3 fan, and I can't quite believe I'm saying it) the R32 has become a serious contender for my cash. It appears to me that a fully-specced R32 (with a V6 3.2 engine) is not likely to be much different in price from what I was anticipating paying for a fully-specced new S3 (with a 4-cylinder 2-litre engine)

    As usual when I find myself in a quandry like this, I try to list the pros and cons.

    "Pros" in favour of the R32 include: V6 engine, power and performance likely to be very similar to S3, car feels bigger and more substantial than S3, great steering wheel, lots of standard kit for the money, likely value for money for this as against a smaller-engined S3, value for money for VW badge as against Audi badge (where both use the same parts bin), much quicker delivery time (even considering current 6-month plus waiting list for R32) bearing in mind that the S3 is not launched yet and there will be a further wait for the DSG option (if it's coming at all)

    "Cons": Not an Audi (but I could get over this with the right counselling!), having to deal with VW service departments, slight concern about possible "boy racer" image of R32, Sat-Nav option doesn't include TV tuner option, no BOSE option, leather option very expensive.

    God, I wish I hadn't set foot in that VW dealership. I thought I knew what I wanted, but now I'm not sure. A Golf R32 V6 3.2 DSG in 6 months, or continue to wait for an S3 2.0 DSG which could be 12 months away. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] What do you think? Please help!!

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  3. #2
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    On the "Cons" don't forget to add fuel consumption, weight of the V6 over the front wheels and, do you really think Audi have put the 2.0L in to be slower and play second fiddle to an R32? The 2.0T in the S3 at 280ish bhp and probably 300lbs/ft of torque will trounce the R32

  4. #3
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!


    I was out looking for a new family car with Claire yesterday as her mr2 roadster is obviously no good as a family car.

    After going round the toyota and jeep dealerships in the area I suggested she have a look at what VW have to offer. There was a black 5 door R32 in there and while I appreciate it is a nice car I wouldn't spend the money on it and would wait for the Audi offering.

    J.

  5. #4
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    do you really think Audi have put the 2.0L in to be slower and play second fiddle to an R32? The 2.0T in the S3 at 280ish bhp and probably 300lbs/ft of torque will trounce the R32

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What, like the old R32 did to the re-vamped and 225 BHP S3?

    The S3 was outclassed, good and proper with the old R32....in the driving stakes.

  6. #5
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    do you really think Audi have put the 2.0L in to be slower and play second fiddle to an R32? The 2.0T in the S3 at 280ish bhp and probably 300lbs/ft of torque will trounce the R32

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What, like the old R32 did to the re-vamped and 225 BHP S3?

    The S3 was outclassed, good and proper with the old R32....in the driving stakes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    See your point glen, but I think (hope) Audis attitude to "drivers" cars has moved on a lot sinse then - I'm thinking of things like the quattro sport TT and the RS4 etc. as I just said over on the other thread, I'm still not convinced there will be a new S3 to be honest.

  7. #6
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Speaking of the RS4, managed to have a test drive of one on Saturday with my DAD. OMFG...

    That car is worth 50,000 and kills an M3 in every aspect.

    It was the best car eber and made my 2.0TQ Look & Feel crap afterwards.

    The sound and performance is out of this world.

    Dave

  8. #7
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    See your point glen, but I think (hope) Audis attitude to "drivers" cars has moved on a lot sinse then - I'm thinking of things like the quattro sport TT and the RS4 etc.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    The RS4, I can see a change.

    The Sport TT is still a tarts handbag of a thing...still numb as hell and understeery.
    That's no more a drivers car than I am Ayrton Senna.

    The RS4 would appear to be a different beast...i'll reserve my judgememt until I've had the chance to drive one properly.

  9. #8
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    That car is worth 50,000 and kills an M3 in every aspect.

    It was the best car eber and made my 2.0TQ Look & Feel crap afterwards.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I love the idea of the new RS4...hell, my old man is suggesting I swap for one...

    But for me, I don't need or want somethig that large.
    And at 50K basic...and with the ability
    to spend 54 or 55K on it...it puts you bang into 911 money.
    But that's a completely different argument...


    [ QUOTE ]

    The sound and performance is out of this world.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    We were fortunate enough to hear a pack of RS4s hammering the 'ring last June...lovely noise!

  10. #9
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Is the new S3 definitely a 'goer'?

    Also how many years has the current A3 been out there, could they skip a model and do S3 on the next generation as it seems to be taking them a long time?

  11. #10
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    If you are so in love with the V6, why not get a A3 3.2 Quattro DSG S-Line?

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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    do you really think Audi have put the 2.0L in to be slower and play second fiddle to an R32? The 2.0T in the S3 at 280ish bhp and probably 300lbs/ft of torque will trounce the R32

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What, like the old R32 did to the re-vamped and 225 BHP S3?

    The S3 was outclassed, good and proper with the old R32....in the driving stakes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Do you not remember the "shoot out" a couple of months back now when one of the groups 3.2V6 owners did a back to back with (an admittedly tuned 265bhp S3, but there again the new S3 will have a higher bhp than that) the "old" S3 out torqued the 3.2 by a fair bit just compare thw two graphs here http://www.audi-sport.net/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1 and notice the area under the S3's torque curve

  13. #12
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    The Sport TT is still a tarts handbag of a thing...still numb as hell and understeery.
    That's no more a drivers car than I am Ayrton Senna.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I meant the fact they started trying to save weight rather than anything else - just more of the right direction.

  14. #13
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]

    Do you not remember the "shoot out" a couple of months back now when one of the groups 3.2V6 owners did a back to back with (an admittedly tuned 265bhp S3,


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I remember it well...


    [ QUOTE ]

    but there again the new S3 will have a higher bhp than that) the "old" S3 out torqued the 3.2 by a fair bit just compare thw two graphs here http://www.audi-sport.net/ubbthreads/sho...part=1&vc=1 and notice the area under the S3's torque curve

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, but an aftermarket tuned turbocharged VAG car alaway has way more boost than a factory tuned version...so the new S3 is likely to have a fairly flat torque curve and great emissions etc...so this argument is likely to be invalid.

    Audi tends to make their cars heavier on spec, soundproofing, luxury etc...all of which detracts from the driving experience.

    Personally, I'd prefer a stripped A3 with less gizmos, less soundproofing, better steering feel etc...rather than focussing on adding more power to a numb and overweigh chassis.
    But that's me...

    If the S3 appears, it'll be an intetresting car...bit at a cost.
    Time will tell...

  15. #14
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Hard to say without a snippet of genuine details of the S3 including price.

    It will be good, but how good......

  16. #15
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Hard to say without a snippet of genuine details of the S3 including price.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's the key, isn't it?
    Spec vs price...and all against the driver appeal.


    [ QUOTE ]

    It will be good, but how good......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It can't fail to be a god car...and the A3 is.
    But, will it hit the mark dynamically?That'll be the test...

    In the market that the new Golf GTI/R32, new S3, WRXs, etc now find themselves...a underwhelming chassis isn't going to cut it.

    A great interior and lots of power won't make it a true drivers car...but if Audi choose to, they can remedy that and set the benchmark for this class of car.

    I hope they choose to...ideally an R32 chassis, with a more Audi-fied interior, at least the samer power and some properly aggressive (yet not boy-racer) styling mods would hit the spot.

    Let's hope...

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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!


  18. #17
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    See the Alfa Brera whupped the R32 in a group test in one of the car mags this month.

    Can't remember the third car in the test,but the Brera won.

    Said the R32 had dead steering,was too heavy,uninvolving handling and a dull interior.

    Think it was Autocar.

  19. #18
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Bag of crap journalism: see

    TSN

  20. #19
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    See the Alfa Brera whupped the R32 in a group test in one of the car mags this month.

    Can't remember the third car in the test,but the Brera won.

    Said the R32 had dead steering,was too heavy,uninvolving handling and a dull interior.

    Think it was Autocar.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    All very good...
    But you wouldn't buy an Alfa with your own money would you?

    The depreciation is crippling...the dealers even worse.

  21. #20
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    agreed

  22. #21
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    bowfer doesn't buy cars with his own money.......lucky b'stard!

    Still it IS a very nice looking car....but the Autocar article was not the most balanced reading. They're started to sound like the Top Gear mob ranting on about beautiful Alfas, ignoring their crap build, residuals and dealers.

    Reminds me of the PC/Mac debate from 5 years back. Form over function yada yada.

    My! I have been busy with my can opener tonight! Worm anyone?

  23. #22
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    S3 wins every day 4 me, dont like the golf

  24. #23
    imported_RedSportback
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Perhaps It might make a differance too you...and maybe not but the golf is having changing to a new model in 2008. Obviously the R32 will take a while longer.

    When collecting my partners Polo the manager took delight in showing me a picture of it and asking would I be coming back to VW for it!

  25. #24
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Can't see a Mk6 golf coming out in 2008, the Mk5 was only out around early 2004, usually run a shape for around 7 years.

  26. #25
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Mk6, no chance! Not unless VW think they've massively screwed up with the Mk5 styling.

  27. #26
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Mk6, no chance! Not unless VW think they've massively screwed up with the Mk5 styling.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I read in Autocar the other week that VW are rushing through the Mk 6 because the Mk 5 costs them too much to build. The new model will apparently be built quicker and therefore cheaper = more profits for VW

  28. #27
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Surely the current cost of the Mk5 is partly based on tooling costs and a quick change could mean a big loss.

    If they are rushing it through I doubt its to do with build costs. More likely its because its not doing as well as they hoped.

  29. #28
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Surely the current cost of the Mk5 is partly based on tooling costs and a quick change could mean a big loss.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ford have done this is the past - they'd rarther take one big hit than leave the tap dripping for a while - if you see what I mean...!

  30. #29

    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    According to an article, with pictures, in this weeks Auto Express, there is to be a Golf VI rand its due to appear in 2008. The existing Golf's current platform will be carried over, but it will be tweaked to allow VW to employ the latest manufacturing techniques. The new model has more aggressive front end styling with headlights angled in towards a GTi-style honeycomb grille.

    The article says that VW normally replaces its cars every five years, but bosses have brought forward the launch of the next Golf to keep ahead of the game. In my opinion it certainly looks much better than the existing Golf.

  31. #30
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    So it seems. The autoexpress website has an image on the front page. Front looks better, wonder what the rest is like.

  32. #31

    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Inside the mag is a rear three quater view as well and it looks OK, at least in 3-door form. Seems to have an intergral spoiler over the back window and tail lights partly in the hatch.

  33. #32
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Seen the mag and it has supposed shots of the MkVI front, side and rear - looks a lot better than the last on. Rear lights are a bit like A3 sportback. Also a pic of the R36 with nice lambo style alloys. 300bhp and VW are supposedly trying to get the feel of the GTI into it. Still a big heavy lump up front, not sure how they will manage.

  34. #33
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    For the non-belivers here's an article.

    http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/gossip/...008-148963.php

    The reason given by my local dealer was as stated earlier in the thread. It costs too many may hours to produce the current version therefore less productivity and less profit margin.

    There is also a quiet whisper that the current version isn't selling in the numbers they hoped for (which I can believe).

  35. #34
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    There is also a quiet whisper that the current version isn't selling in the numbers they hoped for (which I can believe).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Trust VW to blame the looks,and not the sparse equipment and high prices.

  36. #35
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    For the non-belivers here's an article.

    http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/gossip/...008-148963.php

    The reason given by my local dealer was as stated earlier in the thread. It costs too many may hours to produce the current version therefore less productivity and less profit margin.

    There is also a quiet whisper that the current version isn't selling in the numbers they hoped for (which I can believe).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They can't have it both ways though. How can they be dissapointed that the new car isn't selling as well as they expected when they offer no insentives and have very long lead times to try and create a false demand.

  37. #36
    imported_RedSportback
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    I came to Audi having had a Mk IV golf. And the reason I came was the interior design and pricing of the Mk V.

    I can well understand that they need an urgent replacement.

    I know my Audi dealer was rubbing his hands at the new golf as so many people were running into Audi's open arms......... and they have a VW garage in the group.


    Even the Buisness manager of VW said to me i hope this will bring you back to VW as I know what made you leave !

  38. #37
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    The audi salesman that sold me my A3 had just left VW and he said something similar. Probably sales chat though.

  39. #38
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    I tried the R32 ad the GTI but decided on the A3 (sensible 2.0 TDI S Line) in the end as I couldn't stand the seats in the GTI or the unrelenting grey interior and although the R32 was fantastic I just kept thinking taht every day I'd ask myself how I managed to spend so much and end up with a Golf??? The decision to differentiate the interiors of the Golf and A3 so much seems to have really benefitted Audi.

  40. #39
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    Agreed. The A3 interior is in a different league to anything else in its class...IMHO....and since thats where you spend most of your time with the car its important.

  41. #40
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: New S3 or Golf R32? Help!!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Hard to say without a snippet of genuine details of the S3 including price.

    It will be good, but how good......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yep how good will it be ?

 

 

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