Preventing carbon build up [2.0 TFSI]

s3_trev

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Hey peeps, I wanted to ask what the general opinion is with regards to preventing carbon build up on the insides of the 2.0 TFSI engines? I am aware this is an issue with these engines and obviously I would like to counter act this as much as possible. Prevention is better than cure and all that. So far I have found the following to be possible counters:

  1. Regular oil changes with good quality oil
  2. Fuel treatments every few fills
  3. High octane fuel
  4. Oil catch can system
Would you all agree with the above? I would appreciate any input anyone has on this subject.

Thanks.
 
I'm getting my intake valves cleaned next week. Car has already 86k miles so thought it's time to do it. Also looking for tips on preveting the carbon build up in the future.
 
I do not know alot on the topic, other than the fact that a catch can is able to help but the difference isnt massive and there is still buildup on the intakes. It's the nature of the beast unfortunately once the carbon is baked on its very difficult to remove and there is no proven way to stop the gasses getting into the intake without a full pcv delete and venting crankcase pressure a different way. Which is not cheap i believe.
 
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I'm getting my intake valves cleaned next week. Car has already 86k miles so thought it's time to do it. Also looking for tips on preveting the carbon build up in the future.

Where abouts are you getting that done? Do you know what the procedure involves? Cost? Thanks.
 
I may know a bit more than some...LOL.

My car has been decoked twice.

First at 30 000 miles and again at 65 000 miles,both times when the engine was in bits,allowing easy access to the intake ports and valves.

This is what it looks like before.....


http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh544/s3alex/DSC044241024x768_zps62fe53c2.jpg


http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh544/s3alex/DSC044221024x768_zps686b7b7d.jpg


And after.....

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh544/s3alex/DSC044251024x768_zpsf4a81065.jpg

On the TFSi,it won't make any difference what type of fuel you use(aside from diesel of course...LOL) or whether or not you use fuel additives,as this is a direct injection engine,and fuel does not enter the inlet tract above the valves.

A catch can will get some of the crap,but not all,because VAG in their efforts to cut emissions,added another breather from the cam cover,exiting into the inlet above the turbo,so whatever happens,you WILL get some oil vapour meeting hot valve stems,and this is the result.

The only surefire way to prevent it is a full PCV delete,which is a pain,as you need a cam breather system,and catch can,and you need to ensure that neither cam nor crankcase pressures rise to the point where oil is blown past seals.


Mine BTW,has had a catch can from 12 000 miles on,and the crap on the valves accumulates despite that,as I've explained.

I'm going to have a new cam cover and breather fitted shortly,and have the extra injector setup running soon as well.....the latter is for more power,but this is a side benefit of an 8 injector setup,but not something I would recommend for anyone not running a big turbo system and needing a LOT of extra fuelling.

For all of us with TFSi engines,the best solution is a regular decoke,and AMDTuning can do this easily and quickly,as was done to mine.


It's a relatively straightforward process,not horribly expensive,as very easy if you have the right equipment.....which they have!
 
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Thanks alex. Does a "de-coking" involve taking the head off yeah? I would imagine it does.
 
Just the inlet manifold trev, there is a process where crushed walnut shell is blasted into the valves to dislodge the carbon. Walnut is used as its hard enough to remove the bits without doing damage to the head or valves. Quite alot of walnut is needed sometimes up to 12Litres but the before and after pictures show its very effective.

If the head is off for other work an acid bath can be used.

The exhaust valves do not suffer as much as the inlet.
 
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Thanks alex. Does a "de-coking" involve taking the head off yeah? I would imagine it does.

No.

It does involve the inlet manifold coming off though,and that's when mine was off recently.

The first view looked like this......

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh544/s3alex/56d11e4494dfc2f71bf43f20fff47f08_zps14713558.jpg


http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh544/s3alex/b6365f4f89c14c4c87d5cbe881075509_zps91abf3ab.jpg


And the after pics you've already seen,so that we could fit this beauty.


http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums...F-DA7E-4211-8606-E48CA2D12CFF_zpsvyzxyz9v.jpg
 
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Just the inlet manifold trev, there is a process where crushed walnut shell is blasted into the valves to dislodge the carbon. Walnut is used as its hard enough to remove the bits without doing damage to the head or valves. Quite alot of walnut is needed sometimes up to 12Litres but the before and after pictures show its very effective.

If the head is off for other work an acid bath can be used.

The exhaust valves do not suffer as much as the inlet.

The exhaust side as you say,is basically unaffected by this build-up.

The work AMD did on mine was superb,and basically looks as new after being cleaned,and the difference in performance certainly was very noticeable.
Obviously,it's going to be less of a gain on a stock engine,but very clear with a higher powered engine.
 
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How the hell does an inlet side of a petrol engine coke up?
It must be connected directly to the exhaust plpe!:(






























i
 
Just seen those pics Alex... Jeez, your inlet valves reminded me of the exhaust side of my old Stage 3 1700 Crossflow head! ****** hell!
Wonder when I should get mine done...
 
I believe I have a carbon build up issue, slightly lumpy on cold start up and seems to clear itself and an occasional misfire on idle, nothing under load and mines on 51k. Diagnostic machine says misfire cylinder 4 swapped plugs and coils and still on number 4 so could be an injector or head/valves
 
Had mine done last week at surreyside autohaus in guildford for the 2nd time, they say they do it as routing maintainance every 30k, again as above manifold comes off everytime
 
How the hell does an inlet side of a petrol engine coke up?
It must be connected directly to the exhaust plpe!:(


i

Very easily.

When you route engine breathers into the intake,a lot of oil vapour is sent to the intake,and with an "old school" injection system above the valves,all the crap gets washed off.

With a direct injection engine,this can't happen as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinders,and bypasses the valve stems etc,hence the coke build-up.
 
Just seen those pics Alex... Jeez, your inlet valves reminded me of the exhaust side of my old Stage 3 1700 Crossflow head! ****** hell!
Wonder when I should get mine done...

I've had a catch can on mine from 12 000 miles,and the decokes were done at 30 000 and 65 000 miles,so if your's fits into that anywhere,it may be worthwhile.


I believe I have a carbon build up issue, slightly lumpy on cold start up and seems to clear itself and an occasional misfire on idle, nothing under load and mines on 51k. Diagnostic machine says misfire cylinder 4 swapped plugs and coils and still on number 4 so could be an injector or head/valves

Possibly.

The injectors are pretty much bulletproof,but as you can see,the crap build-up is impressive,and because it's slow and gradual,we mostly don't notice the drop-off in performance until its pretty clear.
 
Slightly off topic but I read online that the new tfsi engines run both port and direct injection which if true sounds fantastic.
 
Slightly off topic but I read online that the new tfsi engines run both port and direct injection which if true sounds fantastic.

Where did you read that?

That means running at least one if not 4 extra injectors.
 
Very easily.

When you route engine breathers into the intake,a lot of oil vapour is sent to the intake,and with an "old school" injection system above the valves,all the crap gets washed off.

With a direct injection engine,this can't happen as the fuel is injected directly into the cylinders,and bypasses the valve stems etc,hence the coke build-up.

I'm ****** glad mine's a diesel! :haha:
 
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Just the inlet manifold trev, there is a process where crushed walnut shell is blasted into the valves to dislodge the carbon. Walnut is used as its hard enough to remove the bits without doing damage to the head or valves. Quite alot of walnut is needed sometimes up to 12Litres but the before and after pictures show its very effective.

This is what is going to be done to my car. It will be done by APR here in Finland. Cost is 500 euros so around 400 pounds. I haven't had any symptoms like missfires or powerloss but hoping this clean up could bring back a few extra horsepower... Have people experienced a smoother engine and slight power gains after doing this?
 
This is what is going to be done to my car. It will be done by APR here in Finland. Cost is 500 euros so around 400 pounds. I haven't had any symptoms like missfires or powerloss but hoping this clean up could bring back a few extra horsepower... Have people experienced a smoother engine and slight power gains after doing this?

Yes to smoother delivery and more power.

Mine was running around 490-500bhp on 2 bar prior to the new manifold and having the intake cleaned out.

Now,on 1.9bar,it's smoother and faster,and has a much better top end.

You'll get less of a gain on a Stg2+ engine,but I can only see benefits from doing this.
 
Wow £400 ! Finland must be a expensive place, half that price over here in uk
 
I would have thought some kind of water injection system would keep the intake side clean. It's a side effect of the water injection and also would help on more modded cars.

Karl.
 
Wow £400 ! Finland must be a expensive place, half that price over here in uk

Yeah definetely more expensive than UK; (btw a new S3 here costs without any optional extras 56.5k€ (46k£) which includes 15k€ tax to the government... :noway:

Anyways they told me this clean up is a 3 hour job, wonder if I am getting ripped off?? Anyone know if this is right?
 
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I would have thought some kind of water injection system would keep the intake side clean. It's a side effect of the water injection and also would help on more modded cars.

Karl.

You and I might both have thought that.

I have WMI on mine,using the biggest injector on the AEM system,and mapped for 2bar on a big turbo....it's injected pre-throttle body,and it has no obvious effect on build-up.

It's possible that if you used port injection you might get an effect,but that means a whole lot more work on the WMI system,and most of us use pre-TB injection for cooling,plus you aren't actually pouring in huge amounts either.
 
I think I've found it.

Green Car Congress: Audi using supplementary port fuel injection to address particulates from gasoline direct injection

http://download.springer.com/static...624_94f66f8f53328f850e77baae497ccf68&ext=.pdf

And yes,means extra injector(s) above the valves,and in this case,integrated into the tumble flap system.

Seemed also to mention the 1.8 engine mostly,and is purely aimed at emissions.

Here's the page I was referring to:

Audi Gives Us the Skinny On Its Third-Gen EA888 Turbo Four and the SQ5’s Twin-Turbo Diesel V6 | Car and Driver Blog
 
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Except NI. Going to have to find a local garage that does this. Car is going into a local VAG specialist on the 23rd, so will ask them if its something they do.

It's maybe a long shot but you could try a BMW garage as I've heard a lot of them now do the walnut blasting.
 
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has anyone had the walnut shell blasting? im keen to try it but the thought of some shell breaking up and going into the cumbustion chamber worries me.
 
has anyone had the walnut shell blasting? im keen to try it but the thought of some shell breaking up and going into the cumbustion chamber worries me.

I wouldn't let that worry you.
 
why do you think that? unless you take the cams on some valves should be open..
 
Not sure if i can post to another forum on here. But if you search "walnut blasting bmw" in google there is a thread which will explain how its done.
 
They used the starter to get the next valve to close or using the crankbolt to turn the engine..
 
ha ha dull moment from me, of course! turn the engine over till the valves are closed!!
 
you best bet is buying a non TFSI TDI engine as the injectors spray directly on the piston make it efficient when new and worse then the 1.8T after 10k miles.. the only way i think to minimize it is buy getting a manifold like alex priming the injector to soak the valves every so often which would keep it clean a catch can will help but not cure it as in Alex's case.. the old 1.8T didn't have this problem as the injectors sprayed directly onto the valves top down approach unlike the TFSI etc..

what also would be interesting is alongside the fuel rail on Alex's manifold if he got port injection; wonder how that would work on the carbon build although methanol is being sprayed in miniscule portions
 
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