Lag

beaker

beaker

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Over the past few weeks I've really been noticing the lag on my TDI when pulling away from junctions and roundabouts. Its starting to drive me nuts. I'm not sure what the culprit is here, either the turbo the DSG or the fact that its a diesel. A lot of the roundabouts up here have way too many exits meaning you're fighting with the car to your right for that chance to pull out. When I do I find the power just doesn't appear causing me to plant my foot in search of it and this is promptly followed by a massive lurch forwards and the traction control light blipping away.

Anyone else feeling this? Is it the diesel, the turbo, the DSG or a bit of all three?

Thinking of getting it REVO'd once I have the cash. Hopefully this will make it more responsive.
 

This has been discussed quite a bit on here, there does seem to be a bit of a delay in the DSG cars when trying to pull away sharpish.

Is it any better when in sport or manual mode?

J.
 
I've just been trying it in manual and its a lot better so I guess it is the DSG thats doing it. Sport mode is also more responsive but not as good as the manual setting. I think its down to its obsession with getting into as high a gear as possible, as quickly as possible thus crippling the power.
 
The problem is the computer has to manage the clutch and work out what it is you want to do. Thus if you plant the accelerator the computer has to try and slip the clutch sufficiently to get you off the line without breaking your neck or bogging down.

I tend to take up the slack as I see the gap approaching and then plant it once moving .

It does seem sharper is S then manual though.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Over the past few weeks I've really been noticing the lag on my TDI when pulling away from junctions and roundabouts. Its starting to drive me nuts. I'm not sure what the culprit is here, either the turbo the DSG or the fact that its a diesel. A lot of the roundabouts up here have way too many exits meaning you're fighting with the car to your right for that chance to pull out. When I do I find the power just doesn't appear causing me to plant my foot in search of it and this is promptly followed by a massive lurch forwards and the traction control light blipping away.

Anyone else feeling this? Is it the diesel, the turbo, the DSG or a bit of all three?

Thinking of getting it REVO'd once I have the cash. Hopefully this will make it more responsive.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I have christened 'DSG delay' and,in my opinion,it's positively dangerous,not just annoying.

As Eeef explains,in a manual car,you would slip the clutch to get the revs up,and the turbo spinning.

The DSG makes no allowance for that,so you're left there with your foot to the floor and nothing happening.

It's taken away any confidence I have at junctions/roundabouts and I now ignore gaps I would have comfortably went for in a manual.

In fact,only yesterday morning I shouted "COME OOOON!" at my car again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Other members recommend approaching junctions/roundabouts whilst still rolling,as this disguises the effect to a certain extent,but that's just silly.

DSG,as it stands,just doesn't suit turbo cars,evidently.
 
I agree. I'd never really noticed this before as most of my driving was on motorways or back roads. Now I'm just pootling about town and its here that you notice this problem. Junctions and roundabouts are the worst but it also plays havoc when turning into side roads as it lets the revs dip too low then drops a gear to cover up its mistake, throwing you forwards and spinning the wheels.

Think I'll stick to using manual around town as its a lot better and safer. The paddles are not much use on roundabouts though unless you want to keep your hands in the same position on the wheel right through a turn.

It gets embarrasing when my mates say 'nice car' then proceed to watch me kangaroo the thing around the streets.
 
audi upgrades
I always use manual around town unless I'm in a traffic queue, when I stick it into D.

The same really for pulling out of junctions. When you pull away in 1st in manual you know the DSG will change up to 2nd and then 3rd as it reaches near maximium revs so you can keep you foot on the floor and just let it do the work and you can take over once it's in 3rd.
 
Manual doesn't make the 'delay' any better when accelerating away from junctions or roundabouts though.

No mode avoids the delay.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Its starting to drive me nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to my world,by the way.

It's hard to 'turn around' the feeling,but I hope you do.
 
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It does in my A3.

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Seriously David,are you saying that if you floor your throttle from a standstill you don't get any delay ?

None at all ?

So your car doesn't suffer from turbo-lag either now ?
 
If there is any turbo lag, then I just adjust my driving to suit in the same way I used to with my previous 1.8T Sports. I never used to slip the clutch on those and of course I don't now, except at one particular junction I use quite often which is on a hill. Here I just hold the car on the hand brake. The clutchs in the DSG are already pulling and as soon as I release the hand brake it pulls away quite happily and quickly.

As MikeP has just said, it's all about anticipation. If you car will not pull away quickly enough for you to use a particular gap, wait for a larger gap !

I new exactly how the DSG would behave before I bought a car with it fitted. Any slight disadvantages there may be over a manual clutch system are more than outwayed by the ease and sophistication of 'power assisted gear changing'
 
[ QUOTE ]
If there is any turbo lag, then I just adjust my driving to suit in the same way I used to with my previous 1.8T Sports. I never used to slip the clutch on those and of course I don't now

[/ QUOTE ]

Never slipped the clutch ?

Eh ??

What,you just used to fully release the clutch from a standstill and just use the throttle from tickover revs upwards ?

Never built the revs up to,say,2000rpm and slipped away from a junction that way ?

You must have stalled a lot then.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif
 
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If there is any turbo lag, then I just adjust my driving to suit in the same way I used to with my previous 1.8T Sports. I never used to slip the clutch on those and of course I don't now

[/ QUOTE ]

Never slipped the clutch ?

Eh ??

What,you just used to fully release the clutch from a standstill and just use the throttle from tickover revs upwards ?

Never built the revs up to,say,2000rpm and slipped away from a junction that way ?

You must have stalled a lot then.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

bowfer, in D there is definately a 'delay' as the clutch takes up drive. This can happen in S or manual but to a far lesser extent.

In ALL scenario's however, the way to stop it is 'slip the brake' i.e. hold the footbrake just enough to hold the car, you can feel the clutch engage and it's just like slipping the clutch ( with one foot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) this way as soon as you release the brake fully and hit the gas....you fly !



Trust me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
In ALL scenario's however, the way to stop it is 'slip the brake' i.e. hold the footbrake just enough to hold the car, you can feel the clutch engage and it's just like slipping the clutch ( with one foot ) this way as soon as you release the brake fully and hit the gas....you fly !



[/ QUOTE ]

That's an excellent description of how to get the best out of a DSG.

As for you Bowfer - You know very well what I meant. You just being your usual cynical self and intent on picking holes in everything I write. It not my fault that you made such a big mistake by not test driving a DSG before asking someone to buy you one.

Of course you need to slip an old fashioned manual clutch to get started from standstill, but I was talking about what you had mentioned earlier about dipping the clutch to get the revs up when you get in wrong in the first place. And just for the record I cannot remember the last time I stalled a car - can you!

Can you not accept that some people actually like the DSG and are willing to adapt if necessary to get the best out of it. We do not expect Audi to adapt to us. We tested, we liked and we bought. It's as simple as that.
 
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If there is any turbo lag, then I just adjust my driving to suit in the same way I used to with my previous 1.8T Sports. I never used to slip the clutch on those and of course I don't now

[/ QUOTE ]

Never slipped the clutch ?

Eh ??

What,you just used to fully release the clutch from a standstill and just use the throttle from tickover revs upwards ?

Never built the revs up to,say,2000rpm and slipped away from a junction that way ?

You must have stalled a lot then.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

bowfer, in D there is definately a 'delay' as the clutch takes up drive. This can happen in S or manual but to a far lesser extent.

In ALL scenario's however, the way to stop it is 'slip the brake' i.e. hold the footbrake just enough to hold the car, you can feel the clutch engage and it's just like slipping the clutch ( with one foot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) this way as soon as you release the brake fully and hit the gas....you fly !



Trust me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I have tried that technique,but only on hills,and I swear it doesn't work in my car.

It might be because I'm standing on the brake,rather than pressing it lightly,but if I press the brake with my left foot,then press the accelerator with my right,the car goes nowhere for a good second or so.

It just sits there,evidently trying to decipher what I want to do,brake or accelerate.

Hill starts are a problem for me because of this.

I have to either;

A; Try and get the throttle position right (difficult)

B; Try to quickly flit my foot from brake to throttle (rollback inevitable)

C; Have it groaning against the handbrake,with helluva binding noises coming from the back discs.

The £80 hill-lock option would have been money well-spent,but it's (again) one of those things you don't really know about until you own the car for a while.

I mean,who specifically tries a hill-start in a test-drive (cue David...). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In ALL scenario's however, the way to stop it is 'slip the brake' i.e. hold the footbrake just enough to hold the car, you can feel the clutch engage and it's just like slipping the clutch ( with one foot ) this way as soon as you release the brake fully and hit the gas....you fly !



[/ QUOTE ]

That's an excellent description of how to get the best out of a DSG.

As for you Bowfer - You know very well what I meant. You just being your usual cynical self and intent on picking holes in everything I write. It not my fault that you made such a big mistake by not test driving a DSG before asking someone to buy you one.

Of course you need to slip an old fashioned manual clutch to get started from standstill, but I was talking about what you had mentioned earlier about dipping the clutch to get the revs up when you get in wrong in the first place. And just for the record I cannot remember the last time I stalled a car - can you!

Can you not accept that some people actually like the DSG and are willing to adapt if necessary to get the best out of it. We do not expect Audi to adapt to us. We tested, we liked and we bought. It's as simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slipping and dipping are two completely different techniques David.

I can fully understand how you have never felt the need to 'dip' a clutch whilst moving,even if it is a very useful technique to get the revs up when a downchange isn't practical.

Many owners think a clutch is only a stop/start/change tool,rather than a driving aid whilst moving.
Indeed,I've dipped the clutch whilst driving arounf friends and colleagues,only for them to ask if my manual car has kickdown !

However,in this thread we are specifically talking about the DSG's inability,when fitted in a tdi,to allow a quick getaway without some form of delay,so I couldn't understand why you said you never slipped a clutch.
 
The technique described by Japper can be affected by the tick-over speed of the engine. On mine, if my car is standing still and I engage a gear I have to hold the car with the footbrake to stop it 'creaping' forward. This helps in these situations. When I put my car into the garage at night I never need to use the throttle at all.

The tick-over speed on a 2.0T I drove some weeks ago was set lower than mine and it did not attempt to creep any like as much.

And yes Bowfer, I did try a hill-start on my first test drive in a car fitted with a DSG. I had the car for a whole weekend and drove over most of the normal routes I drive including my then route to and from work. This particular route is one that involves a hill start onto another quite steep hill on a fairly fast trafiic road. I knew how my 1.8T Sport behaved and I wanted to see how this new 2.0TDI with a DSG behaved in comparison..

One of the advantages of a long standing relationship with a particular salesman at a particular dealer. He is more than happy to loan me a demonstrator for the weekend and even to get one in from another dealer if necessary.
 
Sorry to go on a bit, but here me out please........

My 2.0T creeps plenty, thus negating the need for any handbrake on hill starts. Up to 1 in 10 gradient at least. I’m sure bowfer has a ‘Friday afternoon’ gearbox.

This ‘delay’ seems related to the action of ‘flooring’ it. Why would you need to floor the throttle from a standstill????

In many a FWD car, manual or auto or DSG, this will just result in excessive wheel spin and the traction control cutting in like a butcher on LSD! (Especially out of T junctions etc) Is that how you drive a manual? Floor the gas to max revs and then drop the clutch to pull out of a T junction?

If you floor it, of course DSG waits a little to let the revs build, then releases the clutch, because in flooring it that is what you are asking it to do!!. The same as you would do in a manual if you were doing some kind of ‘burnout’ or other ‘max power’ antics.

The TDI and Petrol A3 DSG’s I’ve driven all accelerated to the traction limit of the tyres with just a small press of the throttle through 1st gear and into second, then I find you can use full throttle without spinning wheels.

When waiting at junctions, I have found that as soon as I release the brake the car is moving, with the clutch immediately partially engaged, any further throttle pressure results in immediate and firm acceleration combined with a rise in revs, no pause whatsoever. UNLESS I push the throttle right down, and then I get this ‘delay’ But doing this is a pointless exercise because when the clutch picks up, huge wheel spin ensues and within ½ a second the ESP has cut the gas anyway.

As far a throttle for pulling away with DSG, it seems that less is definitely more in this case.
 
[ QUOTE ]

This ‘delay’ seems related to the action of ‘flooring’ it. Why would you need to floor the throttle from a standstill????

In many a FWD car, manual or auto or DSG, this will just result in excessive wheel spin and the traction control cutting in like a butcher on LSD! (Especially out of T junctions etc) Is that how you drive a manual? Floor the gas to max revs and then drop the clutch to pull out of a T junction?



[/ QUOTE ]

Come on,there are always occasions when one has to 'floor it' away from junctions.

One can floor it away from a junction in a manual without excessive wheelspin.

You can use the clutch to avoid wheelspin,keeping it on the 'brink'.

The fact that DSG just lets the wheels spin away is another disadvantage of the DSG being an 'on/off' clutch.

You shouldn't have to 'coax' the car into acceleration,but that's what you have to do with DSG.

It should be able to cope with all driving styles and scenarios.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If there is any turbo lag, then I just adjust my driving to suit in the same way I used to with my previous 1.8T Sports. I never used to slip the clutch on those and of course I don't now

[/ QUOTE ]

Never slipped the clutch ?

Eh ??

What,you just used to fully release the clutch from a standstill and just use the throttle from tickover revs upwards ?

Never built the revs up to,say,2000rpm and slipped away from a junction that way ?

You must have stalled a lot then.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

bowfer, in D there is definately a 'delay' as the clutch takes up drive. This can happen in S or manual but to a far lesser extent.

In ALL scenario's however, the way to stop it is 'slip the brake' i.e. hold the footbrake just enough to hold the car, you can feel the clutch engage and it's just like slipping the clutch ( with one foot /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) this way as soon as you release the brake fully and hit the gas....you fly !



Trust me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I have tried that technique,but only on hills,and I swear it doesn't work in my car.

It might be because I'm standing on the brake,rather than pressing it lightly,but if I press the brake with my left foot,then press the accelerator with my right,the car goes nowhere for a good second or so.

It just sits there,evidently trying to decipher what I want to do,brake or accelerate.

Hill starts are a problem for me because of this.

I have to either;

A; Try and get the throttle position right (difficult)

B; Try to quickly flit my foot from brake to throttle (rollback inevitable)

C; Have it groaning against the handbrake,with helluva binding noises coming from the back discs.

The £80 hill-lock option would have been money well-spent,but it's (again) one of those things you don't really know about until you own the car for a while.

I mean,who specifically tries a hill-start in a test-drive (cue David...). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

bowfer, on steep hills you may find my tecnique may not work quite as well, but never really tried it. The only time I get roll back, is when changing from 1st to reverse and I use it to my advantage most of the time, as in manuevering forth and back whilst still in reverse.
 
Perhaps that's where those who are getting excessive lag are going wrong !
 
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps that's where those who are getting excessive lag are going wrong !

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup,that's always the bottom line with you and genuine,founded,criticism of DSG.

Driver error.

Ho hum. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Not driver 'error' as such, but not driving in a way that suits the car and getting frustrated and not enjoying driving because of it. A exchange of ideas of techniques to use the DSG to it's best is surely a good idea.

And also, in your particular case, the error was in not finding out what it would and would not do BEFORE having a car with one fitted. I'm sure it's a mistake that you will not make again.

Basically I feel sorry for you. I would hate to have to drive around in a car that I did not like such a fundamental component as the gearbox.
 
You know what, after reading all this, I think I'm going to have to test drive a 2.0TDi DSG and see why it causes such HUGE differences between you guys, I've really enjoyed reading the daily argument between dave and bowfer - think you guys should be married! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
MikeP has already made the point, get it remapped and the lag simply isn't an issue because there isn't any lag at all.....just one HUGE grin instead. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif
 
audi upgrades
[ QUOTE ]
You know what, after reading all this, I think I'm going to have to test drive a 2.0TDi DSG and see why it causes such HUGE differences between you guys, I've really enjoyed reading the daily argument between dave and bowfer - think you guys should be married!


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you enjoy our little 'squabbles'. It all good fun really but I don't thing I'll being getting married to Bowfer - he's not my type and I think I may be a little old for him. I also think Mrs Bowfer might have something to say about that and Mrs Robinson for that matter. If things change you'll be the first to know !

We will just have to carry on disagreeing at a distance......
 
In bowfers case, his comapny may not be too keen on the idea of re-mapping even if he thought it was a good idea.

I must admit, I drove MikeP's re-mapped car the other day and it felt very smooth and with a noticeable amount more 'go' and no sign of any delay, certainly in manual mode. It was very nice.
 
[ QUOTE ]
MikeP has already made the point, get it remapped and the lag simply isn't an issue because there isn't any lag at all.....just one HUGE grin instead. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif

[/ QUOTE ] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
In bowfers case, his comapny may not be too keen on the idea of re-mapping even if he thought it was a good idea.

I must admit, I drove MikeP's re-mapped car the other day and it felt very smooth and with a noticeable amount more 'go' and no sign of any delay, certainly in manual mode. It was very nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

And Dave didn't even give it a mullering!
 
Seems I've started the old war again. Apologies.

Anyway, I think I was just used to 'D' since thats pretty much how I've been driving it for a year - with the exception of a few times when I wanted some fun on the way home and when I first got it till the novelty wore off.

Now I'm in town I guess I need to adjust to a different way of using the car. Manual mode seems to pull away just fine. I've never left it to the DSG to change up either so this would no doubt be quicker still.

Now that I don't need the diesel for economy (as my mileage has plummeted) I have been thinking of changing for something else. I think I'm going to keep if for another 12 months though and try a remap too.
 
[ QUOTE ]


The fact that DSG just lets the wheels spin away is another disadvantage of the DSG being an 'on/off' clutch.

You shouldn't have to 'coax' the car into acceleration,but that's what you have to do with DSG.

It should be able to cope with all driving styles and scenarios.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe in a 950 fiesta you may need to floor it out of a junction just to get the thing moving. but I honestly never need more than a touch of gas to pull away, any more will spin the wheels.

But you can't drive it like a normal 'box because it isn't a normal 'box! You need to learn how to get the best from it. Same as a regular auto or SMG etc etc.. Throttle modulation is the only signal the ECU has from you and it has to work round that. I find that a quick shallow press gets the cluth biting and slips it to about 2krpm, then press it harder and feel as the clutch bites more to pick up the drive, balance this with the traction limit to just feel the tyres squirm a bit - never any need to 'floor' it pulling away.

I don't think its fair to say 'it's not like my manual' and throw ones toys out of the pram.

But that said, I am selling may car a buying a manual.
 
I think the moral in all this is make sure you test drive a car with the type of engine you are considering and fitted with a DSG gearbox BEFORE you buy one and if possible spend a few hours with it. If you like it, buy a car with one fitted. If you don't like the way it behaves, DON'T buy a car with one fitted or accept that you will have to change some aspects of the way you drive to get the the most out of a car with one fitted. If you don't like it or do not feel that you want to change the way you drive then stick to a manual. Don't expect the 'manual / tip-tronic' mode on the DSG to the same as a manual gearbox, it is not.

Personally, having driven with a manual gearbox for the last 39 years and now had a DSG for 20 months, I like it very much and would say that it has added to my overall joy of driving. I personally would hate to have to go back to a manual. A requirement for my next car will be that it is available with a DSG gearbox.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think the moral in all this is make sure you test drive a car with the type of engine you are considering and fitted with a DSG gearbox BEFORE you buy one and if possible spend a few hours with it. If you like it, buy a car with one fitted. If you don't like the way it behaves, DON'T buy a car with one fitted or accept that you will have to change some aspects of the way you drive to get the the most out of a car with one fitted. If you don't like it or do not feel that you want to change the way you drive then stick to a manual. Don't expect the 'manual / tip-tronic' mode on the DSG to the same as a manual gearbox, it is not.

Personally, having driven with a manual gearbox for the last 39 years and now had a DSG for 20 months, I like it very much and would say that it has added to my overall joy of driving. I personally would hate to have to go back to a manual. A requirement for my next car will be that it is available with a DSG gearbox.

[/ QUOTE ]

No,the moral of this is that DSG has faults.

Some are willing to accept,overlook, or adapt to them,some are not.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the moral in all this is make sure you test drive a car with the type of engine you are considering and fitted with a DSG gearbox BEFORE you buy one and if possible spend a few hours with it. If you like it, buy a car with one fitted. If you don't like the way it behaves, DON'T buy a car with one fitted or accept that you will have to change some aspects of the way you drive to get the the most out of a car with one fitted. If you don't like it or do not feel that you want to change the way you drive then stick to a manual. Don't expect the 'manual / tip-tronic' mode on the DSG to the same as a manual gearbox, it is not.

Personally, having driven with a manual gearbox for the last 39 years and now had a DSG for 20 months, I like it very much and would say that it has added to my overall joy of driving. I personally would hate to have to go back to a manual. A requirement for my next car will be that it is available with a DSG gearbox.

[/ QUOTE ]

No,the moral of this is that DSG has faults.

Some are willing to accept,overlook, or adapt to them,some are not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course DSG has faults, but then so have many manual boxes. Example: tried putting a peugeot gearlever in firstand second when cold. Even this when manual boxes have been around years. New technology will always have some teething problems.
 
audi upgrades
Bowfer - no doubt you would have been very aware of these 'faults' if you have tried one BEFORE you ordered a car with one fitted. Surely by know you must accept at least that point.
 
For everyone else and Bowfer - surely the whole point of this thread started by beaker was that he was suffering 'Lag' when he used his DSG. Saying that the DSG has 'faults' and he should have bought a manual is not very helpful as the guy already owns a car with one fitted.

Most of the posts have been giving advice about how he can improve his driving experience with his DSG by changing his driving technique to suit what he has, rather than just saying the DSG has 'faults' and that's it. Surely that's one of the main points of this forum - to exchange information.

I remember looking into the TT-forum when the TT was first fitted with the DSG and finding a lot of exchange of ideas of how to get the best experience from a TT fitted with one. Not all directly applicable as they were fitted to a petrol engine rather than a diesel with it's different characteristics but I personally found them very useful before I decided to test drive the Diesel + DSG combination.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No,the moral of this is that DSG has faults.

Some are willing to accept,overlook, or adapt to them,some are not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong, my DSG does not have faults, no warning lights on the dash so far and the garage never reported to me that it had any faults showing when it went in for it's service.

However, there are a couple of design features that I don't agree with, such as the automatic upshifting but it's nothing that I wasn't aware of when I bought the car, and I've adapted my driving style to suit.

I understand that you feel the car doesn't do what you want it to, but that's your shortcoming, not the cars.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/soap.gif
 
audi upgrades
The multitronic gearbox has a similar 'lag' before pulling away, as it has a very similar arrangement in terms of an electronically controlled clutch (rather than a traditional auto's torque converter)

I am, on balance going to come down on Bowfer's side - despite the fact that I love the car, and would certainly consider buying a multitronic equipped car again.

He's right - there ARE times when you want a much quicker getaway then the gearbox will allow, and despite the remap making a big difference I also occasionally shout at the car to 'get a ****ing move on!'

Strangely, I find this more frustrating from a slow roll than a standing start - for example approaching a roundabout as someone is already on, they go past and I pick up the throttle hard, and there are occasional times when for no apparent reason it just doesnt respond.. Though I think this is more about the electronics than a gearbox issue as the clutch is presumably still engaged..

To me, the pros still outweigh the cons - I do over 30k miles pa, and the smoothness and usual instant response at any revs more than outweigh the negatives.. but I still give full support to the criticisms!
 
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