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  1. #1
    imported_S_Line
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    S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Yep Tomorrow we have My 3.2 V6 on the rolling road and a S3 on the rolling road the S3 has the Revo Mods.
    We are both hoping for the same BHP and Torque Figures.

    As soon as we have a print out of the runs ill post them up with Matts permission (S3 owner)

    Ill get some pics and will make a short Video clip of both cars on the Roller

    Tomorrow at 9.00 is the Showdown [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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  3. #2
    elucidate's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Cool, looking forward to it...

  4. #3
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    me too [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    not long now until we can see some great results and comparisons [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  5. #4
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Should be fairly close [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'd be more interested in the shape of the curves rather than outright numbers - looking forward to seeing the results.

    -L

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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    truly riveting...

  7. #6
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    This was held at Clives this morning.

    A Shoot out to see the difference of two massively different Engines.

    The A3 3.2 V6
    The S3 1.8 Turbo with REVO

    Bottom Line BHP


    A3 3.2 V6 = 261.6 BHP
    S3 1.8 Turbo = 267.7 BHP (with REVO)

    So on paper nearly the Same, a soon as i have the graphs you will see some Massive Differences.

    Just waiting For Matt to E mail me the Graphs so you can see. I also took a short video of the event (which ill post up when i finish it)












    Hats off to Clive for Putting in the Time with Both Cars. At his Special
    30.00 per Car Rolling Road Session (before Christmas) Deal [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #7
    MattS3's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    try these Brian........3.2 S line first.



    Then the S3


  9. #8
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    the Torque on the S3 was amaizing !
    Equal to the Torque on the 3.2 V6 at low revs !
    Its opened my eyes to the Vag Turbo engines [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  10. #9
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Nice flat torque curve though for the 3.2. The S3 seems a little "peaky" by comparison - peak torque doesn't come in until 4000rpm, holds for another 1250rpm and then tails off.

    The other thing that's a surprise is the transmission losses with 4WD. I'm assuming the green line is BHP at the wheels? If so, that's a 100bhp loss!

    And snow in Norwich this morning? Cool!

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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]

    And snow in Norwich this morning? Cool!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    still is bloody snowing in Norwich. man its cold out.

  12. #11
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    yep snowing still CCTV..


  13. #12
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Nice flat torque curve though for the 3.2. The S3 seems a little "peaky" by comparison - peak torque doesn't come in until 4000rpm, holds for another 1250rpm and then tails off.

    The other thing that's a surprise is the transmission losses with 4WD. I'm assuming the green line is BHP at the wheels? If so, that's a 100bhp loss!

    And snow in Norwich this morning? Cool!

    [/ QUOTE ]


    yep green is at the wheels.

    I was Massively disappointed in the Torque of the 3.2 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] to say the least, on paper the 1.8 Turbo is the same with low down power !

  14. #13
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    yep torque is amazing in turbo cars, reason i got 2.7 biturbo rather 4.2 v8, it just has a more manic feel for fun . the NA v8 i found more precise which has to be better on the track.

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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Nice flat torque curve though for the 3.2. The S3 seems a little "peaky" by comparison - peak torque doesn't come in until 4000rpm, holds for another 1250rpm and then tails off.

    The other thing that's a surprise is the transmission losses with 4WD. I'm assuming the green line is BHP at the wheels? If so, that's a 100bhp loss!

    And snow in Norwich this morning? Cool!

    [/ QUOTE ]


    yep green is at the wheels.

    I was Massively disappointed in the Torque of the 3.2 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] to say the least, on paper the 1.8 Turbo is the same with low down power !

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep, very impressive for the 1.8T, they are two totally different engines, The Turbo car will nearly always "out torque" a similar hp normally aspirated car, now maybe people will see why the S3 needs to be based around the 2.0T, remember you can not have torque without hp, the formula is: torque (lbs/ft) x RPM, divided by 5252= hp

  16. #15
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]
    yep torque is amazing in turbo cars, reason i got 2.7 biturbo rather 4.2 v8, it just has a more manic feel for fun . the NA v8 i found more precise which has to be better on the track.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The 4.2 is very smooth and one thing is doesn't feel is manic. After I moved from my TT to the S4 I was amazed how quick you can go without the feeling of speed (no turbo surge I guess).

    What torque do you get from the 2.7 bi-turbo? I have was 375lb-ft/509Nm.

  17. #16
    powerplay's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    So why not just fit a turbo to the 3.2?

  18. #17
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]
    So why not just fit a turbo to the 3.2?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    you make it sound so easy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    HEres the VIDEO CLIP

    just left click its a Win Media at 28 megs.

    http://www.evocity.co.uk/A3/a3shootout.wmv

  19. #18
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Cool.
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

    But, ugh, is it just my PC or is it upside down?

  20. #19
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    whats upside down ?

  21. #20
    powerplay's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Ok, weird.

    My default player is Windows Media Player Classic. Playing back in that, the picture is upside down, ie, 180 deg rotated.

    Just tried it in DivX though and it plays normally.

    Spooky!!

    (Good job, btw!)

  22. #21
    dummi's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    i need it mapped properly now the hardware is there should be 400lbft ish so about same as you Scotty, the delivery is much lower on the biturbo giving the 'manic' [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] feel the na v8 is better on the track or corners for sure, it makes me feel like a kid with the turbo though always wanted this kind of set up [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  23. #22
    dummi's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    they were considering turboing the 3.2 for the s3 weren't they

  24. #23
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Ace piece of video, Clive looked a bit cold!

  25. #24
    OutLore's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Awesome video!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif[/img]

  26. #25
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    When we hold another Rolling Road, weel tell everyone and ill make a DVD for people [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

  27. #26
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Let me know when it is and I'll try to come along.

  28. #27
    imported_kkline
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    So is the HP of the 3.2 underrated from the factory @ 250?

    "A3 3.2 V6 = 261.6 BHP"

  29. #28
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Good video Brian, well done mate [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

  30. #29
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]
    So is the HP of the 3.2 underrated from the factory @ 250?

    "A3 3.2 V6 = 261.6 BHP"

    [/ QUOTE ]

    VAG always quote conservative figures, the PD150 puts out over 160 straight out of the box,

  31. #30
    imported_migzy
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    looks all good, now i'd like to see what the difference would be if you spent the same amount of money tuning the 3.2.

    It'll be interesting to see if the 1.8T still beats the 3.2

    I've got a 3.2 at the mo, but had the 1.8t tuned to the nuts before. I'd have to say there's bonuses for the way both cars felt.

    I liked the power of the turbo kicking in on my 1.8, but i also love the way i have power in every gear on the 3.2, it feels like it always has more to give.

    So anyone out there who's spent the wonga, shows us a charts.

    Cheers

    Migzy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]
    So is the HP of the 3.2 underrated from the factory @ 250?

    "A3 3.2 V6 = 261.6 BHP"

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's not quite that easy, It depends on a variety of things, whether the rollers measure in din or sae hp (slightly different)also the calibration of the rollers, some also use correction factors for inlet temp, atmospheric pressure etc, It can also matter how tight the car is strapped down, this alters the transmission hp that is lost on the "at the wheel" figure, and what the rollers calculate on the "over-run" as drag then add it to the wheel hp to give engine hp, the main thing about this comparison is they were both done on the same day, on the same rollers, with the same operator, and also to be fair 261hp against the factory "claims" of 250 is pretty good in my book, Thanks for sharing, nice video as well

  33. #32
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    DOnt forget the Torque is Well Down [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Audi says 238lbs but its only 208lbs which im not happy with as its the Torque that provide the accelleration [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] not peak BHP.

    Been looking at extra power for the 3.2 myself since i bought it. Therse not much that can be done unless you want to spend loads of money and fit a supercharger.

    A remap dosent give much, but if a remap can get the torque up to 260+ leaving the BHP the same i would have it done

    Revo STILL hasnet released a Map for th 3.2 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] a real shame [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

  34. #33
    mikep's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    The only V6 remap we have at the moment is for the R32, but the gains aren't significant, 15bhp and 15lb ft to be exact. Apparently the throttle response is much better.

    You're unlikely to see significant torque improvement on the 3.2 when the map is finally produced.

    I'll check with the guys at HQ for a date.

  35. #34
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Spoken to Kev at HQ, looks like March before the 3.2 stuff will appear. The gains will be similar to the R32.

  36. #35
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    ITs a shame there isnt something that can add a bit more via a Bolt on device. For the 3.2 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

    Maybe the New S3 is the Way forward with the 2.0 Turbo Fsi engine.

  37. #36
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    Supercharger!!!!!

    But put your wallet on danger money if you do.

    Best wait for the S3.......

  38. #37
    imported_S_Line
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Supercharger!!!!!

    But put your wallet on danger money if you do.

    Best wait for the S3.......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ill wait for the S3 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] will be great to compare the two [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/MexWave.gif[/img]

  39. #38
    marriedblonde's Avatar
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!


    I had my R32 remapped with the APR software and while the gains where next to nothing it did drive an awful lot better. It was so much more responsive.

    You coudl try to reset the ECU on your 3.2 you might find that restores some of the lost zing!

    J.

  40. #39
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    I'm surprised by your 3.2's torque numbers...

    I had mine remapped at AMD. The gains are not big, but definitely change the engine's behaviour: much more agressive.

    With the remap alone, the engine gave 270-275 hp, and somewhere near the 270lb/ft mark. Adding an intake and cat-back got me to 280hp. I'll get those graphs scanned and I'll post up.

    Power-adders for the VR6... Cams will be good for another 15-20hp, but more importantly, will broaden the curves, giving more power up top without losing any down low. Add free-flow cats and perhaps headers for that little bit extra (Supersprint is about to release their full system).

    VF-Engineering's kit is ready. 350hp with the original engine's linearity, for something like 7000 Euro.

    HGP Turbo's kit is available. Over 400hp and gobs of torque, but 12500 Euro!!! OUCH


    There's no easy power solution for the VR6, but it is such a nice engine! So good to thrash around or simply cruise along... In my book, it's worth the extra effort.

  41. #40
    imported_kkline
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    Re: S3 Versus 3.2 V6 Rolling Road Shoot out !!

    I thought the remap would yeild UP TO 15hp and 15ft/lbs. You say you are getting 270ft/lbs on a remap alone. Is this a mistake?

 

 
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