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Thread: Is My Shaft Normal?!?!

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    Is My Shaft Normal?!?!

    Hi and sorry about the dodgy title but I though it would get extra attention and I need help urgently. Also I mean the title literally.

    I'm having clutch/flywheel problems with my 2007 8P S3 and my mechanic can't find anything wrong. I just had a new clutch, dual mass flywheel and release bearing installed and now I have these problems...

    1. Droning noise when I decelerate through 2500rpm.
    2. Occasional rattling noise from the gearbox when I let the clutch out.
    3. Occasional knocking noise at idle and in neutral.
    4. Clutch pedal shakes/judders and gear lever too.
    5. Occasional power loss/surge.
    6. Stiff gear changes in all gears and sometimes won't go in at all.

    Anyway, back to my shaft...

    I got my mechanic to take the gearbox out again because I said I wasn't happy. I was hoping to see something obviously wrong but there wasn't, except maybe... my input/clutch shaft splines.

    Do the splines on the end of the input shaft have little ridges? It's like they are serrated all along the tops of the splines. Also I thought I could feel a slight mushrooming on the splines. The last 10mm of the shaft felt wider than the rest of the shaft. The other thing I noticed is that it had no grease on it, bone dry. Also there were streaks of grease coming out of the middle of the clutch hub/centre. Sorry I don't know the right words for the parts but I hope I'm making sense.

    Is it possible there was no grease or too little grease or the wrong grease on the shaft?

    Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

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    Depends how many inches it is i guess....
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    Apparently 6-7 inches is the average..

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    Is it possible there was no grease or too little grease or the wrong grease on the shaft?
    Shaft Fact: You can never have enough grease on the shaft. If it's the wrong grease, you're doin it wrong.

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    (don't bait us, you wont get an answer, just a wall of shaft jokes).
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    Its all in the girth...

    no grease isnt gonna hurt it...
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    As long as it touches both sides then I guess it's normal
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    Quote Originally Posted by @udi A3 View Post
    Its all in the girth...

    no grease isnt gonna hurt it...
    Hi @udi A3 and thanks for your answer. I'm not sure if the second half of your answer is genuine or not. Are you saying that the grease between the clutch and shaft won't cause problems? Or was that just another joke?
    david_phillips95 and wuta3 like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    (don't bait us, you wont get an answer, just a wall of shaft jokes).
    Yes I appreciate that this could be funny to some people but it's very difficult to talk about shafts, grease and release bearings without it sounding bad. That's why I said grease instead of lube and ridges or serrations instead of ribbed.

    This is a genuine post and I really do need help urgently.
    Last edited by chadvaliant; 25th June 2013 at 22:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    Yes I appreciate that this could be funny to some people but it's very difficult to talk about shafts, grease and release bearings without it sounding bad. That's why I said grease instead of lube and ridges or serrations instead of ribbed.

    This is a genuine post and I really do need help urgently.

    Please don't reply with jokes! If for some reason you do feel the need to add a joke then please make it obvious and please make it funny at least.
    Cooommmmeeee on! You set yourself up for this with the title and lines like "Anyway, back to my shaft..." ... don't backtrack now.

    Also, if somebody had an idea, im sure they would chime in. We're just joking cos were sad loners with nothing better to do. Anyway, we're doing you a favor bumping the thread every 10 minutes with hilarious, side splitting, rare jokes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    I have these problems...

    1. Droning noise when I decelerate through 2500rpm.
    Symptom 1 sounds like your gearbox has been shafted without enough lubrication

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    Cooommmmeeee on! You set yourself up for this with the title and lines like "Anyway, back to my shaft..." ... don't backtrack now.

    Also, if somebody had an idea, im sure they would chime in. We're just joking cos were sad loners with nothing better to do. Anyway, we're doing you a favor bumping the thread every 10 minutes with hilarious, side splitting, rare jokes.
    I know, you're not wrong and like I said I do appreciate that it could be funny. I'm just worried it will be all jokes and no genuine answers.

    I'm running out of time to find a problem with my car and I'm stressing out. I don't want to have to pay to have my gearbox out twice.

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    doesnt your spanned man know what hes doing ?
    is this shaft ! on the g box side or engine side ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by david_phillips95 View Post
    Symptom 1 sounds like your gearbox has been shafted without enough lubrication
    Hi David, thanks that sounds like a serious answer. What makes you say gearbox? Is this something that you've come across? Do you think the other symptoms could be related?
    wuta3 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    doesnt your spanned man know what hes doing ?
    is this shaft ! on the g box side or engine side ?
    Gearbox side. It's the one that the clutch sits on and it goes into the gearbox.

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    gearbox specalist ?
    they will tell you

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    Hi David, thanks that sounds like a serious answer. What makes you say gearbox? Is this something that you've come across? Do you think the other symptoms could be related?
    he came across a gearbox that had been shafted.

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    Stiff or not, whatever you do don't force it in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    Hi David, thanks that sounds like a serious answer. What makes you say gearbox? Is this something that you've come across? Do you think the other symptoms could be related?
    Sorry it was a bad joke but on a more serious note....try draining your gearbox oil and checking for metal shavings, swarf etc, the issues you list above sound like a box issue or DMF, not a clutch issue. I have added possible faults but this is just possible issues it could be something else

    1. Droning noise when I decelerate through 2500rpm - DAMAGED GEARBOX BEARING
    2. Occasional rattling noise from the gearbox when I let the clutch out - RELEASE BEARING, GEARBOX INPUT SHAFT BEARING
    3. Occasional knocking noise at idle and in neutral - DMF FAULTY OR INCORRECTLY FITTED
    4. Clutch pedal shakes/judders and gear lever too. - DMF FAULTY OR INCORRECTLY FITTED FOR PEDAL SHAKE
    5. Occasional power loss/surge - POSSIBLE CLUTCH SLIP MOST LIKELY DMF NOT MATING CORRECTLY WITH CLUTCH
    6. Stiff gear changes in all gears and sometimes won't go in at all - FAULTY BOX OR CLUTCH NOT FULLY RELEASING

    Just a few other questions....were new DMF bolts fitted, should be new ones whenever it is removed also double check all part numbers are compatible with your VIN. Could be a case of the wrong pressure plate, release bearing or DMF

    Also I had a few gearboxes through audi when my car was in warranty due to bearing noise, in my experience of running additional power through the boxes I found they had a very limited lifespan so another question I would ask is are you putting additional power through your box and what mileage is on the car?

    Thanks,

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    gearbox specalist ?
    they will tell you
    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    he came across a gearbox that had been shafted.
    Thanks Bez, I appreciate your help. In regards to a specialist, I don't know if I'm dealing with a specialist until it's too late. These cars are quite rare where I come from and finding someone who knows them seems impossible. I went to a so called euro car specialist yesterday and asked if he had the LUK dual mass flywheel measuring tool and he said what's an LUK and what's a dual mass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by david_phillips95 View Post
    Sorry it was a bad joke but on a more serious note....try draining your gearbox oil and checking for metal shavings, swarf etc, the issues you list above sound like a box issue or DMF, not a clutch issue. I have added possible faults but this is just possible issues it could be something else

    1. Droning noise when I decelerate through 2500rpm - DAMAGED GEARBOX BEARING
    2. Occasional rattling noise from the gearbox when I let the clutch out - RELEASE BEARING, GEARBOX INPUT SHAFT BEARING
    3. Occasional knocking noise at idle and in neutral - DMF FAULTY OR INCORRECTLY FITTED
    4. Clutch pedal shakes/judders and gear lever too. - DMF FAULTY OR INCORRECTLY FITTED FOR PEDAL SHAKE
    5. Occasional power loss/surge - POSSIBLE CLUTCH SLIP MOST LIKELY DMF NOT MATING CORRECTLY WITH CLUTCH
    6. Stiff gear changes in all gears and sometimes won't go in at all - FAULTY BOX OR CLUTCH NOT FULLY RELEASING

    Just a few other questions....were new DMF bolts fitted, should be new ones whenever it is removed also double check all part numbers are compatible with your VIN. Could be a case of the wrong pressure plate, release bearing or DMF

    Also I had a few gearboxes through audi when my car was in warranty due to bearing noise, in my experience of running additional power through the boxes I found they had a very limited lifespan so another question I would ask is are you putting additional power through your box and what mileage is on the car?

    Thanks,

    David
    Wow thank David, that's great stuff.

    I don't know about the bolts, I would hope so but even if I asked I wouldn't know if the answer was honest. All the parts looked correct to me. The mechanic had the old and the new on his work bench side by side and they looked identical. He said he double checked the part numbers too.

    The car has done 70000km and it is standard power and standard everything else for that matter.

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    where are you from ?

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    Im sorry but this tread actually make me laugh out loud on the train, people think im nuts. Sorry 2 hear about the issues tho, as this post aint really helping.

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    I've put my popcorn away now.

    I cant recall but I know there was an issue of similarity with an S3 shaft/drive, but for life of me I cant remember wtf it was, I seem to recall flange mentioned or maybe confused with another car, sorry not much help atm.

    I will rack my brains, maybe S3Alex will pop in to save the day on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    Wow thank David, that's great stuff.

    I don't know about the bolts, I would hope so but even if I asked I wouldn't know if the answer was honest. All the parts looked correct to me. The mechanic had the old and the new on his work bench side by side and they looked identical. He said he double checked the part numbers too.

    The car has done 70000km and it is standard power and standard everything else for that matter.
    Things can look identical on the bench but really different when compared dimensionally...a few mm can make the difference between working and not working....Whoever fitted the clutch etc should be looking into the problem as it wasnt faulty prior to he/she working on it..Some recordings of the noises and photos of the old and new parts would also help.

    Thanks,

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    In regards to draining the gear oil... The mechanic said he did drain the oil and it was dark but no swarf. I found it strange that it was dark because it was only 9000km old.

    Is there a way to tell if the gearbox matches the car? All my problems started after my local Audi dealer messed up my diff. I got it back from them and then the clutch pedal would sometimes only come back half way. That's when I took it to these other guys to get that fixed. They said release bearing but do a clutch and flywheel at the same time as they are wear and tear. I know that one of the staff at the Audi dealer has a modified S3 and now I'm wondering if he has my gearbox in his car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    In regards to draining the gear oil... The mechanic said he did drain the oil and it was dark but no swarf. I found it strange that it was dark because it was only 9000km old.

    Is there a way to tell if the gearbox matches the car? All my problems started after my local Audi dealer messed up my diff. I got it back from them and then the clutch pedal would sometimes only come back half way. That's when I took it to these other guys to get that fixed. They said release bearing but do a clutch and flywheel at the same time as they are wear and tear. I know that one of the staff at the Audi dealer has a modified S3 and now I'm wondering if he has my gearbox in his car.
    Not sure if there is a way to tell, wouldnt imagine someone at Audi would swap boxes, hardly worth risking your job over a gearbox. I would personally check the gearbox oil myself. Wont be the first time i have heard horror stories of going to change your gearbox oil to find its empty. A gearbox with no oil would give you a few of the symptoms you listed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david_phillips95 View Post
    Things can look identical on the bench but really different when compared dimensionally...a few mm can make the difference between working and not working....Whoever fitted the clutch etc should be looking into the problem as it wasnt faulty prior to he/she working on it..Some recordings of the noises and photos of the old and new parts would also help.

    Thanks,
    You're right they should be looking into it but at one point they told me that all cars rattle and I should just deal with it. The problem I have is that it's in their best interests to not find a problem. That's why I'm looking to find the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by david_phillips95 View Post
    Not sure if there is a way to tell, wouldnt imagine someone at Audi would swap boxes, hardly worth risking your job over a gearbox. I would personally check the gearbox oil myself. Wont be the first time i have heard horror stories of going to change your gearbox oil to find its empty. A gearbox with no oil would give you a few of the symptoms you listed.
    They checked the oil and it was dark but no swarf. The oil was only 9000km old but I don't know how dark it was or how quickly it gets dark.

    Also... In regards to risking jobs for gearboxes. I got a Haldex service at the dealer and they drained the diff instead. The general manager dealt with the problem and he denied the whole thing and even sent his service manager out to my broken car to hide evidence of their mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    I've put my popcorn away now.

    I cant recall but I know there was an issue of similarity with an S3 shaft/drive, but for life of me I cant remember wtf it was, I seem to recall flange mentioned or maybe confused with another car, sorry not much help atm.

    I will rack my brains, maybe S3Alex will pop in to save the day on this one.
    Don't worry Nigel, I sent the shaft .... sorry bat signal Alex's way too ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    he came across a gearbox that had been shafted.
    Filth
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    Guys, the op asked a question, please keep the replies to useful info. Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra View Post
    Guys, the op asked a question, please keep the replies to useful info. Thank you.
    I actually PM'd people to get the poor guy help with his shaft problem, hoping many eyes and heads on the shaft would cure it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra View Post
    Guys, the op asked a question, please keep the replies to useful info. Thank you.
    Thanks Sandra, it started out a little dodgy but I'm getting some good replies now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    I actually PM'd people to get the poor guy help with his shaft problem, hoping many eyes and heads on the shaft would cure it.
    Thanks wuta3, I was wondering what your post meant. I now understand that you sent S3Alex a message. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    Thanks Wuta, I was wondering what your post meant. I now understand that you sent S3Alex a message. Thank you.
    Have a ganders at this thread. Probably not much help, but shows the splines ... maybe compare them to yours?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    Don't worry Nigel, I sent the shaft .... sorry bat signal Alex's way too ...
    So did I lmao.

    Hold on, it came back from audi with a messed up diff, care to expand a bit on all this story as doesn't seem complete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    Have a ganders at this thread. Probably not much help, but shows the splines ... maybe compare them to yours?

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    I think I need to go into the mechanic and get some pics. Problem is the mechanic is 2 hours away from where I live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    So did I lmao.

    Hold on, it came back from audi with a messed up diff, care to expand a bit on all this story as doesn't seem complete.
    Hi NHN, thanks for your help, I didn't realise you also sent a message for me.

    Yeah I went to get my 60000km Haldex service from the local Audi dealer and the drained the diff instead. Then they double filled the Haldex and gave it back to me. It started whining and so I called them and said something is wrong. They sent a service manager out to look at it. He started lying to me straight away. He said it was a common fault to leak from the seals and it had nothing to do with them. He then put an allen key into the Haldex drain hole and quickly opened and closed it three or four times. I asked him what he was doing and he said checking fluid levels. I now know he was scoring the nut as it had never previously been opened. Anyway there was a court case and it was a nightmare. They even went as far as making a fraudulent warranty claim against my warranty company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadvaliant View Post
    Hi NHN, thanks for your help, I didn't realise you also sent a message for me.

    Yeah I went to get my 60000km Haldex service from the local Audi dealer and the drained the diff instead. Then they double filled the Haldex and gave it back to me. It started whining and so I called them and said something is wrong. They sent a service manager out to look at it. He started lying to me straight away. He said it was a common fault to leak from the seals and it had nothing to do with them. He then put an allen key into the Haldex drain hole and quickly opened and closed it three or four times. I asked him what he was doing and he said checking fluid levels. I now know he was scoring the nut as it had never previously been opened. Anyway there was a court case and it was a nightmare. They even went as far as making a fraudulent warranty claim against my warranty company.
    Sounds pretty bad matey. "Shafted by Audi" is probably a good name for it. Hope you get it sorted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    Sounds pretty bad matey. "Shafted by Audi" is probably a good name for it. Hope you get it sorted.
    I just want to be clear that I don't think there is any relation between the Haldex service and this gearbox/flywheel problem. The only way I could link them is if Audi stole my gearbox when they butchered my diff. The clutch problem only started after I got the car back from them. I think they are separate issues though, just bad luck.

 

 
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