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  1. #1
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    next generation TDi?

    Sorry if this has been discussed already, but I noticed VW are launching the Golf GT TDi - 170 bhp standard plus the usual GTi style grille, wheels and bodywork stuff.

    Anyone know when this will be available in Sportback form, and whether it will come in Quattro guise from day one?

    Thanks

    J

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  3. #2
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Hi Bunny,

    there has been talk of this engine for a year or so, since i joined. This was the engine that i had been waiting for, and no details are available for the sportback with or without quattro, i personally wouldn't hold out for it unless you have a definite lead.

    Only as you are probably aware that VW, who like to test the engines first, have put this in the new passat and golf gt, which will be out over here early next year.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif[/img]

  4. #3
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Yeah the new octavia VRs is getting this engine as well. Thats due in Jan, no doubt the audi will get it. Just a case of how long we have to wait

  5. #4
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    The PD150 engine didn't make it to Audi, only VW and SEAT.

    It might be the same with the 168bhp engine, but as mine now has 175bhp and 293lbft I don't really mind! Once the new Revo switchable code goes on, it should be even more!

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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    The PD150 engine didn't make it to Audi, only VW and SEAT.

    It might be the same with the 168bhp engine, but as mine now has 175bhp and 293lbft I don't really mind! Once the new Revo switchable code goes on, it should be even more!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sounds great but personally I don't want another front wheel drive car ever again, and I'm ugly enough without extra help from the new 3 series.
    My next car has to be a diesel, cannot be modified and will have to be RWD or 4WD.
    Anyone know of alternatives?

  7. #6
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    My next car has to be a diesel, cannot be modified and will have to be RWD or 4WD.
    Anyone know of alternatives?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The new Lexus IS200 diesel will have 175bhp and RWD,and it is a very nice looking car indeed.
    No prices have been released yet,but you can guarantee it will be priced in the high spec A3 / low spec A4 range.

    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Anyone know of alternatives?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The new Lexus IS is out in November and will have a 177BHP diesel out in January I believe. I quite like the look of them and I believe they a RWD....may be a good contender for the BMW ??

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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Wow, imagine typing that up at the same time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

  10. #9
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    I can't wait to test drive one,especially with the Mark Levenson stereo option.

  11. #10
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    You will need deep pockets to get one, I drive a IS at the moment and was sent the prices in late August. I think it was 25,000 for SE and 27000 for a SE L and about 2,500 for the Levenson nav/stereo

  12. #11
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Any Audi with Quattro.....?

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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    You will need deep pockets to get one, I drive a IS at the moment and was sent the prices in late August. I think it was 25,000 for SE and 27000 for a SE L and about 2,500 for the Levenson nav/stereo

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I was over 24K for my A3,so we're in the same ballpark,given that the Lexus is a bigger car.

    I would think you could get the Levenson upgrade without satnav and I'm sure I read it was around 500,which is what roughly what Bose costs for an Audi.

  14. #13
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Any Audi with Quattro.....?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You're still (at the moment) stuck with 140bhp though,plus the added weight of Quattro.

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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Looks pretty Bowfer, although a bit Mazda6? Just pray that Alan Partridge doesn't get one.

    Eeef, I would definitely be interested in the 170 A3 Quattro. Having driven a few different Audi's in the last 9 months (my Sportback has done 60,000 miles since November) I have become a huge fan of the system.

    Bowfer I wouldn't worry too much about the weight penalty, or the effect it has on 0-60 times etc. Imagine nailing the throttle out of damp 2nd gear bends (or even slightly off camber dry ones for that matter) and just getting full drive all the way - you'd need more than a 100kg weight advantage to make that back.

    The strange thing is, at least as far as front wheel variants go, VW Golfs seem to handle better than their equivalent stablemates from Audi. This is based on the GTi vs 2.0T FSi S-Line, and also on the 2.0 GT TDi vs the 2.0TDi Sport.

    Since they share the same chassis I can only assume that the engine is sited lower down, or that the damping rates have been changed - the Golfs certainly have a more "nuggety" ride quality.

    Also, and I appreciate I may get shot down for saying this, I quite like the "everyman" quality of the Golf, whereas I find the Audi is a bit too much in the "sheep in wolf's clothing" vein.

    I know there's little to choose in pricing, but I've had a few Golfs over the years and always found them unpretentious and "what you see is what you get" stylee, which appeals for some odd reason.

    Certainly if I end up having to wait too long for the 170 TDi Quattro, I'd rather have the Golf 4Motion than the equivalent Audi - some kind of Q-car thing I s'pose.

    Is there any difference between the Haldex systems on the two cars?

  17. #16
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Bowfer I wouldn't worry too much about the weight penalty, or the effect it has on 0-60 times etc. Imagine nailing the throttle out of damp 2nd gear bends (or even slightly off camber dry ones for that matter) and just getting full drive all the way - you'd need more than a 100kg weight advantage to make that back.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    True,but traction is hardly a problem with 140bhp-170bhp,unless it's snowing (it's not a problem with the 225/45 tyres anyway).

    With regard to the Lexus,just imagine switching off the traction and getting the tail out round a wet roundabout...

    Remember fun ??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif[/img]

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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]


    True,but traction is hardly a problem with 140bhp-170bhp,unless it's snowing.
    With regard to the Lexus,just imagine switching off the traction and getting the tail out round a wet roundabout...

    Remember fun ??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well we've been here before, Eeef too if I recall. DSG seems to give better traction - maybe there's a torque limiter in the first few gears to protect the clutches, or maybe its the extra weight over the front, or maybe its the fact that I've got an SE with a 30 tuning box... but my traction lights up plenty in the dry. Yes, I know the throttle is not a switch. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    As for the tail out stuff - have you tried this yet? I did on a 320D and lost it completely. It may be easy enough on a wide track with 400bhp, but with a 2.2 litre diesel you don't have the power to get it back. Or maybe I'm just crap.

    I take it you're going for the Lexus?

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    Re: next generation TDi?

    I think the 168bhp has piezo injectors (common rail?), and not based on the pumpeduse set up. So, in theory, it should be offered by Audi at some point, as it is not a mere power hike on the same 2.0 lump.

    I think it is too soon for Audi to bring out, as they have only just (9 months) introduced the 2.0 TDI for the facelifted A4, so don't want to cheese off all those company car drivers with a better engine. I guess it will be about the end of next year that the engine will make it's way to the A3/A4, to "spice up" some interest in the models.

  20. #19
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Oh, and fwd on a 170bhp+, 380NM+ car is hell in the slimy wet conditions. At the weekend, it was difficult to put marginal power down in 3rd! I don't think my ESP can cope either, as it seems to just let the tyres continue to spin, although it's flashing at me with distinct hatred.

  21. #20
    Eeef's Avatar
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Just be prepared to glue bits back on it after 20k miles.

    Colleague has one and it's held together with blue-tac. Horrible plasticy interior, and you end up with Ricers for colleagues, with dustbin exhausts, blacked out windows and all of the 'hood' checkin' yer wheels....to see if they can have the stereo out of it.

  22. #21
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Just be prepared to glue bits back on it after 20k miles.

    Colleague has one and it's held together with blue-tac. Horrible plasticy interior, and you end up with Ricers for colleagues, with dustbin exhausts, blacked out windows and all of the 'hood' checkin' yer wheels....to see if they can have the stereo out of it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Steady now...
    I'm sure Lexus consistently better Audi in the JD Power surveys for owner satisfaction (I could be wrong,I haven't checked) and remember I've just had my A3 in for repeated rattles..
    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
    As for the 'dustbin exhaust' / blacked out window scenario,that's hardly exclusive to Lexus.
    There's a thread around on here with photos of a 'bling mobile' (black A3) in front of some graffiti and with a ghetto blaster in the foreground ! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif[/img]

    Edited...I checked the JD power thing as follows;

    <font color="red">JD Power Survey 2004:
    Executive cars
    20 April 2004

    Lexus IS200/300 CLASS WINNER
    Rating 88.3% Overall ranking 2nd

    Why is the Lexus so far out in front? It starts with reliability. Owners report hardly a squeak or rattle from the cabin, let alone a fault serious enough to leave them stranded. Engine and transmission problems are almost unheard of.
    In the unlikely event of the Lexus needing an unscheduled trip to the dealer, repair bills are low and the service efficient. Insurance premiums are reasonable, too, although fuel bills could be easier on the bank balance. High scores for driver satisfaction and cabin comfort round off a complete performance.
    </font>





  23. #22
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Lexus are good - tend to be a bit bland to drive though...

  24. #23
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    That totally contradicts the real life experience of my colleague?

    Perhaps the same person built his as programmed your gearbox [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yes.gif[/img]

  25. #24
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm sure Lexus consistently better Audi in the JD Power surveys for owner satisfaction [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've never been entirely sure about the JD Power surveys - they do not take into account the mileage the cars have done, or the type of owners.

    Therefore - Lexus, Nissan, Honda etc etc who have a target market of 50+ retired or semi retired 10,000 miles a year owners are going to get better results from a driver survey than the likes of Vauxhall, Ford etc who have 1000s and 1000s of cars owned by 50,000 miles a year reps......

    It's simple logic - more miles, more chance of a problem. The fact that 2 cars havent had issues is not necessarily indicative of whether they are reliable cars at all if one has covered 10,000 miles and one has covered 100,000 miles. Look at both cars when they have covered the same mileage and I would think that they will both have had similar problems etc.

  26. #25
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Therefore - Lexus, Nissan, Honda etc etc who have a target market of 50+ retired or semi retired 10,000 miles a year owners are going to get better results from a driver survey than the likes of Vauxhall, Ford etc who have 1000s and 1000s of cars owned by 50,000 miles a year reps......

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Surely the sheer size of the JD power survey means that the broadest possible spectrum is covered ?
    IMO that makes it the best around.
    To say that every Lexus/Nissan/Honda covered by the survey has done low mileage and been treated with kid-gloves is daft.

    Honda have the Type-R,for example.You can't tell me they aren't caned by every owner.

    Okay,in an ideal world you would have every car treated the same and you would check the results from that,but in the absence of that a massive report from thousands of owners has to be the best bet.

  27. #26
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    Just be prepared to glue bits back on it after 20k miles.

    Colleague has one and it's held together with blue-tac. Horrible plasticy interior, and you end up with Ricers for colleagues, with dustbin exhausts, blacked out windows and all of the 'hood' checkin' yer wheels....to see if they can have the stereo out of it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Class [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

  28. #27
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Just be prepared to glue bits back on it after 20k miles.

    Colleague has one and it's held together with blue-tac. Horrible plasticy interior, and you end up with Ricers for colleagues, with dustbin exhausts, blacked out windows and all of the 'hood' checkin' yer wheels....to see if they can have the stereo out of it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Class [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ahem....



    [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  29. #28
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    HI all, i've just joined up and was looking around for this info.

    Thinking of changing my golf mk5 (140PS) for either a GTI or A3.

    Would have to be either the 170PS TDI or else the 2.0T FSI. Having read this thread i might have a spin in a new Lexus. Would be more confident in buying a petrol if fuel prices were sub 80ppl as i'm doing 20k a year atm.

  30. #29
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    The Lexus IS has many design flaws that are very well documented.

    All there alloy wheels fall to bits after 12 months due to the alloy mix

    Practically all have gearbox problems with notchy change/no change in low gears

    and many more, rear will drive is soo much fun, when you are driving on a round about at about 20mph in the rain and back end kicks out and you nearly plough off the road.

    So much fun, I have had BMW and a Lexus both RWD and I may live to regret moving to 4WD but time will tell

  31. #30
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    The Lexus IS has many design flaws that are very well documented.

    All there alloy wheels fall to bits after 12 months due to the alloy mix

    Practically all have gearbox problems with notchy change/no change in low gears

    and many more, rear will drive is soo much fun, when you are driving on a round about at about 20mph in the rain and back end kicks out and you nearly plough off the road.

    So much fun, I have had BMW and a Lexus both RWD and I may live to regret moving to 4WD but time will tell

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Trust me, you will absolutely love 4WD. I look forward to hearing your opinions here - when's it due?

  32. #31
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    Month end - scheduled for build on 17th, 18th 19th & 20th

  33. #32
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    mate's IS200 is also playing the same tune as the JD power survey - he is not too happy to say the least!

    The interesting thing to me over the JD power survey is the owners thmeselves, if you buy an audi, bmw or similar thne you do not expect problems and when you do you moan like hell, whereas owners of honda's etc are more accepting of problems..... i know looking back at my car history i have had problems with most marques, never managed to kill my VTEC engine but the car rattled like a bag of spanners

  34. #33

    Re: next generation TDi?

    I must admit I've always been rather sceptical of surveys like JD Power. As you say it's all down the the owner's own views. Owners of some of the more expensive marques don't expect problems and are therefore dissatisfied if they get any at all. It's all down to expectations and a cheaper lesser quality car can exceed someone expections purely because the expectations are not very high in the first place.

  35. #34
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    and many more, rear will drive is soo much fun, when you are driving on a round about at about 20mph in the rain and back end kicks out and you nearly plough off the road.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I live in Aberdeen mate...
    If they were that bad,believe me,our roundabouts would be littered with crashed BMW/Lexus/Mercs.

  36. #35
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    Re: next generation TDi?

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    and many more, rear will drive is soo much fun, when you are driving on a round about at about 20mph in the rain and back end kicks out and you nearly plough off the road.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I live in Aberdeen mate...
    If they were that bad,believe me,our roundabouts would be littered with crashed BMW/Lexus/Mercs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    bowfer, no they just slow down to the extent that they're a mobile chicane [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Try it on with a TVR in the wet and I bet you gun him.

 

 

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