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Thread: 15Degrees-North S3 turbo Race Car build

  1. #241
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    Turns out the rack is off a Golf MK4 so a new one is on the shelf down the road.

    My exhaust is TOO quiet! Only made 87db at static test. What could I change that back box to do you think?

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  3. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Turns out the rack is off a Golf MK4 so a new one is on the shelf down the road.

    My exhaust is TOO quiet! Only made 87db at static test. What could I change that back box to do you think?
    You could do what I tried which was a small centre box and no back box.

    Bloody loud and I think quicker spool but not road friendly. Lol.

  4. #243
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    OK the swirl pot looks like it's plumbed in correctly and the map looks ok and it ran ok on the dyno so.

    We are adding some large Naca ducts to the bonnet to reduce heat and get some airflow in there both sides
    We are changing to waterless coolant
    We are changing the lifter pump as it has been on the car ages and might be now less efficient and thus not filling the pot fast enough
    We are covering the HP pump with heat shield
    We are covering all fuel lines in the engine bay with heat tube

    Let's see

  5. #244
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    Quite a list but when you get to that sort of stage working through everything is the only option.

    Hope you strike lucky.

  6. #245
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    So A brief race report. LOL

    Saturday the car presented itself with a range of electrical faults that kept changing every 30 mins. Much consternation ensued and also much changing of everything we could think of and then changing it again. I missed scrutineering and then qualifying and then the race and we kept at it. I was pissed

    OFF

    12 hours later Rob and I sat looking at each other and I said what havnt we checked. The relays he says. OK lets check em. He sticks his head behind the panel they are mounted on and says hmm there is a big thick earth wire here mounted onto a bulkhead bolt. Hmm the 13mm nut is loose on it.

    Tighten it up and et voila everything works.

    MORAL:

    NEVER GIVE UP

    LESSON:

    Electricity is like magic and I hate it, a lot.

    Sunday.

    The starter motor I bought on Saturday as part of the things we changed won't engage and needs modyfying so Rob start's to do that. He then sits in the car and presses the brake pedal 15 mins before we go to scrutineering and says to me should the brake pedal go to the floor like that. No I say, I look in the back and one of the rear brake lines has come off and shed all its fluid in the car. I run up to scrutineering to ask if we can be late while they fix it and bleed the rear brakes in 15 mins flat!!!!

    We pass scrutineering and I set about qualifying. I have new front pads so did the first 5 laps quite slowly so as not to glaze them up and then pit. We check tire pressures and I set off again and start to push on, the power steering rack fails again! Smoke everywhere and I have to pit again, session over and back for repairs.

    Quali in 41st LOL out of 44 My teamate and partner Darren is on Pole and I am at the back which is a very novel experience for me I can tell you. He laughs. A lot.

    Back to the pits and we discover the rack has the wrong fluid in it and we can't fix it. Ill drive it with a manual rack I say to which I get some guarded looks! Now I know why.

    Race on and we are off. I settle in at the back and start to pick people off wrenching my arms from my sockets as I struggle to turn in. It's actually a very good experience as you get to learn to handle lots of traffic which you don't get from the front. We do our pit and I am in 20th I think and moving through the field. The car is overheating for some reason and I notice the alarm on my dash at 125c and slow down and do the lap back to the pits. The car cuts out as I pull in and race over. I will strip the enigne now to check its ok and figure out why it keeps overheating, air lock we think.

    So all in all a great weekend which I enjoyed a lot. I did a grand total of 15 laps and it has cost 15 MSU's in total which in motorport terms is good value for money!

    The car is actually very fast and now I can develop it, fix the issues we teased out of it and put it on pole in 6 weeks time at Silverstone. God I LOVE motorsport a LOT.




    On Saturday I shall take the engine out and fully strip it to check for any heat damage on bearings etc. We are flummoxed on the over heat issue and I think it must be an air lock somewhere in the system. I can't think what else it could be. The water pump is new, we don't run a thermo, the intercooler has always been that size and in front of the rad. The rad fan works fine and is large, we had no leaks on the system. Hmm have I missed anything?

    Cheers

    Mark.

    PS
    The swirl pot issue did not present so I assume we fixed that with all the other changes we did pre race.

  7. #246
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    Glad you got your first runs in,even with troubles along the way.

    Re electricity....I know what you mean......my old Escort had been sitting in my garage for a while,so I go to turn it over prior to a sale.
    I charge the battery,check it all over,turn the electrics on,and get the pumps started,with no problems.

    Go to start the car.....it goes clunk.
    try again,check voltages etc ....clunk for the next few goes.

    Eventually,checked the battery terminals and one was loose.

  8. #247
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    So engine is stripped.


    Big end bearing on number two is gone. Metal everywhere
    Rod looks knackered
    Piston skirt is busted
    Piston hit the head and dinted it
    All 4 pistons picked up very slightly at top on the exhaust side. I think a re hone would sort it.
    Crank might be knacked, not sure

    I am guessing it's arrows strength that stopped the rod coming out the front of the block and that's what you pay for with them at twice the price.

    So Im thinking

    A. Do Arrow make one rod for you as my other 3 are ok
    B. I wonder how much I can skim off the head without runining the CR
    C. If I re hone do I need new rings again or can I use my current ones which are fine

    I have 3 spare pistons from the previous set so thats not a problem. I can get a new head for £50 but then of course have to do the dreaded top hat shims again and valve seat cut doh I will ring Arrow and see what they say but I bet its "Oh we only sell rods in sets" as if they cant just pick one of the sehlf, we will see.

    BDM sell a set of rods for £400 so I would go for those as opposed to Arrows £850

    So once again Mark reminds himself that all this work and cost is becaus he ignored a warning light on his dash and this is his penance. I very am penitant

  9. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    So engine is stripped.


    Big end bearing on number two is gone. Metal everywhere
    Rod looks knackered
    Piston skirt is busted
    Piston hit the head and dinted it
    All 4 pistons picked up very slightly at top on the exhaust side. I think a re hone would sort it.
    Crank might be knacked, not sure

    I am guessing it's arrows strength that stopped the rod coming out the front of the block and that's what you pay for with them at twice the price.

    So Im thinking

    A. Do Arrow make one rod for you as my other 3 are ok
    B. I wonder how much I can skim off the head without runining the CR
    C. If I re hone do I need new rings again or can I use my current ones which are fine

    I have 3 spare pistons from the previous set so thats not a problem. I can get a new head for £50 but then of course have to do the dreaded top hat shims again and valve seat cut doh I will ring Arrow and see what they say but I bet its "Oh we only sell rods in sets" as if they cant just pick one of the sehlf, we will see.

    BDM sell a set of rods for £400 so I would go for those as opposed to Arrows £850

    So once again Mark reminds himself that all this work and cost is becaus he ignored a warning light on his dash and this is his penance. I very am penitant
    Really sorry to hear that.

    It's a shedload of damage,and if it was mine,I'd replace the lot I think,as you never know where all the metal shards have ended up.

    If you can get single rods,you'd still need to send the other 3 to have them balanced against the new one,and I know that PEC,who supplied mine do sell single rods,but also do a full set of 4 for around £500,and they are clearly as tough as old boots,considering the loads my engine places on them.

    I also got uprated bearings etc from them when the engine was being built.

    If there is any doubt about the rings,scrap them,as they aren't costly,but another rebuild if one fails,will be.

    Mine runs a reduced CR of 9.2:1 thanks to the Wossner pistons I chose,so if you were to change the pistons,getting the CR back by skimming the head may be less of an issue.

  10. #249
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    Yeah replacing it all That's motorsport.

    So where can I get this oil cooler conversion plate from?

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    Just out of interest...how do you fund all this work?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Yeah replacing it all That's motorsport.

    So where can I get this oil cooler conversion plate from?
    Most of the race parts places like Merlin and DemonTweeks etc sell them.


    OIL SANDWICH PLATE 1/2BSP FROM MERLIN MOTORSPORT


    Just need to ensure the fitting is correct.

  13. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by osiris View Post
    Just out of interest...how do you fund all this work?!
    If it's anything like the way I do it,a kidney here,and an arm and a leg there.

    There's always a way.....

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    running a higher CR will help off boost too. i run my 106 Rallye at around 10:1. Mega responsive and instant spool.

  15. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Most of the race parts places like Merlin and DemonTweeks etc sell them.


    OIL SANDWICH PLATE 1/2BSP FROM MERLIN MOTORSPORT


    Just need to ensure the fitting is correct.
    That wont fit, mine has all that plastic **** on the front of the engine. I need the adapter plate.

  16. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by osiris View Post
    Just out of interest...how do you fund all this work?!
    Now there's a question. I run several internet based businesses and also do consulting work. Any level of motorsport is VERY expensive. In the last 6 weeks I have spent 3250 on wiring, 2900 at tracktive on mapping etc and some other jobs and 2400 for a test day, race weekend with tires, entry fees, fuel, transport, carbon wrap etc. This repair will be another £1500 I wager!

    It all adds up, constantly
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  17. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    That wont fit, mine has all that plastic **** on the front of the engine. I need the adapter plate.
    Sorry.
    Didn't know which part you were looking for.
    My first call would be somewhere like Merlin Motorsports and they should be able to help.

    Sorry again and good luck.

  18. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Sorry.
    Didn't know which part you were looking for.
    My first call would be somewhere like Merlin Motorsports and they should be able to help.

    Sorry again and good luck.
    I looked through backdrafts build and they seem to do the plate, will call them.

  19. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    I looked through backdrafts build and they seem to do the plate, will call them.
    Forgot about them....they have a very nice build going on there and some interesting parts.

  20. #259
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    Any idea what rear pads go into my car? I want to get some race ones. I know the backend is all VR6 stuff with standard calipers I think.

    Cheers
    Mark.

  21. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Any idea what rear pads go into my car? I want to get some race ones. I know the backend is all VR6 stuff with standard calipers I think.

    Cheers
    Mark.
    I had Ferodo DS2500 pads on mine and swapped to Mintex 1155s which have far better initial bite and a rising temp coefficient so those may suit your track needs.

    The back end on mine is getting the same treatment now.

  22. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    I had Ferodo DS2500 pads on mine and swapped to Mintex 1155s which have far better initial bite and a rising temp coefficient so those may suit your track needs.

    The back end on mine is getting the same treatment now.
    Are all the 1155 the same size?

  23. #262
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    Hi Guys

    I am in need of some technical help. My belt driven crank may be borked on my AXX block 2.0 TFSI 82.5mm bore. What cranks are the same please as the AXX so I know what engines to look for on Ebay.

    Cheers

  24. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Are all the 1155 the same size?
    I don't know the caliper sizes etc on yours,but on mine I know we canget them in the correct sizes.

    BTW....very sorry to hear about the crank.

  25. #264
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    Rods are fubar. A new set of Arrows is a grand so ordered them. Mine it seems are specially machined to fit.

    I will find out on the crank tommorow hence why I need to know what engine codes that have that AXX crank in them. I THINK its all belt driven cranks are the same from 8L and 8P but would be nice to know that for sure.

  26. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Rods are fubar. A new set of Arrows is a grand so ordered them. Mine it seems are specially machined to fit.

    I will find out on the crank tommorow hence why I need to know what engine codes that have that AXX crank in them. I THINK its all belt driven cranks are the same from 8L and 8P but would be nice to know that for sure.
    The engine really got nailed didn't it.

    I really do feel for you,as it's there but for the grace of God etc.....I know you'll get it all fixed,but I'm sorry it's happened.

  27. #266
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    Just been to Eastbourne and collected a new head, finding out about the crank tommorow but i did find this out. very usefull.

    VWVortex.com - 2.0 TFSI vs. 1.8T crankshaft

    Here is comparison between 2.0 TFSI crankshaft 06A 105 021 AR and 1.8 T crankshaft 06A 105 021. Both crankshafts are from transverse engines.

    How to know which one is which - 2.0 TFSI is new, 1.8 T is used.

    Both cranks are from Europe.

    History - there are three part numbers for 2.0TFSI crankshaft : first was 06A105021E, than was this number replaced with 06A105021S, and finaly was this number replaced with 06A105021AR.

    Units are in milimeters.

    My findings are - that crankshafts are identical, only difference is tooth gear wheel for oil pump ! 2.0 TFSI has 21 tooths, 1.8 T has 19 tooths. Part number for 2.0 TFSI tooth gear wheel is 06B 105 209 and for 1.8T is 06A 105 209.

    Here in Europe we can buy 06A 105 209 tooth gear wheel for around 20 USD. Both cranks have the same diameter where this tooth gear is attached - so no problem at all for a swap. 2.0 TFSI crankshaft is alot stronger (on one photo a pointed out this difference) and it weights 1kg more that 1.8T crankshaft.

    I can only speculate that first crankshaft for 2.0 FSI was 06A 105 021 E and in VW Tech documents there is a text that 2.0 TFSI crankshaft is reinforced over 2.0 FSI crank and I think that first 2.0 TFSI were using 06A 105 021 S crankshaft and maybe 06A 105 021 S is stronger than 06A 105 021 E. And I speculate that maybe 06A 105 021 S and 06A 105 021 AR are identicly reinforced.

    Engine codes

    VWVortex.com - AXX Vs BWA 2.0 TFSI

    BPY = North America
    AXX/BWA = Rest of World
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  28. #267
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    Thats really useful info for a lot of people here,and in the 8L section.

    When my engine was stripped for the bottom end rebuild,at around 30 000 miles(20 000 of which at Stg2+ or above) the crank was within original tolerances,so I think it's fair to say that the TFSi crank,as you've found in that link,is pretty tough.

  29. #268
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    Ok Arrow are making me a new set of Rods at the bargain basement price of £1000 ouch. It seems the rods are thinner on the width of the small end. I guess to fit my custom pistons.

    Just bought an engine yesterday so I can whip the crank out of it and use the block (My block is scored). It's a BWA 2.0 TFSi non runner so I hope the bottom is ok or ill have to buy another.

    Rods will be with me on Monday. The spare head has gone over to Ivor Searle for skim and to put my lightweight valves in it with new seat cuts. I am buying the BDM oil filter plate so I can fit a big air 24 row cooled oil cooler, not sure where I'm gonna mount that yet. Get rid of that plastic crap and the small water cooled cooler which is not fit for purpose on my engine.

    Camcoat have my turbo, mani and downpipe and are ceramic coating them today in satin black. That alone is going to reduce engine bay temps a lot.

    I'm trying to get everything together for a big weekend next weekend of engine building, love engine building It's my favorite part of engineering. All those nice clean parts and gaskets.
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  30. #269
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    Hmm this engine gets weirder and weirder. MY crank has no less thn 11 bolts in it LOL. I am wodnering if he machined it to take more as the standard one has 6.

    This crank has 6AAJ code on the web. Odd. My starter motor also does not meet the flywheel unless you modify the holes so you can move it over a bit which leads me to believe that you can't bolt a 6 speed 4 wheel drive box to an AXX block or that the flywheel is smaller!

  31. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Hmm this engine gets weirder and weirder. MY crank has no less thn 11 bolts in it LOL. I am wodnering if he machined it to take more as the standard one has 6.

    This crank has 6AAJ code on the web. Odd. My starter motor also does not meet the flywheel unless you modify the holes so you can move it over a bit which leads me to believe that you can't bolt a 6 speed 4 wheel drive box to an AXX block or that the flywheel is smaller!
    Can you check with the original engine builder?

    It sounds as if you have a lot of non-standard bits in there,which is all very well until a problem occurs,and the question now is if a stock crank will work or not.

  32. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Can you check with the original engine builder?

    It sounds as if you have a lot of non-standard bits in there,which is all very well until a problem occurs,and the question now is if a stock crank will work or not.
    Exactly. I am tempted to junk the lot and go S3 CDL engine with uprated everything. Probably do that over the winter as I have just spent a grand on the rods so a bit late now.

    I am sure the crank has had extra holes put in it. He was running this at 600hp in hill climbs so he would have needed the extra strength there on the flywheel and I know it used to shred driveshafts at the front! Easy for me to get extra put in to match my flywheel.

    Engine builder is back on Monday and will be getting a call.

    Parts are all coming together now ready for next weekends mammoth build

  33. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Exactly. I am tempted to junk the lot and go S3 CDL engine with uprated everything. Probably do that over the winter as I have just spent a grand on the rods so a bit late now.

    I am sure the crank has had extra holes put in it. He was running this at 600hp in hill climbs so he would have needed the extra strength there on the flywheel and I know it used to shred driveshafts at the front! Easy for me to get extra put in to match my flywheel.

    Engine builder is back on Monday and will be getting a call.

    Parts are all coming together now ready for next weekends mammoth build
    I think that sort of confirms it really,doesn't it.

    Going with a current engine,uprated everything,and essentially a new build would at least give you the safety of being able to replace parts easily.
    Even a stock block etc is good for 600bhp,as several people have found,and mine alone has reliably run 500bhp for a good couple of years,with nothing more than pistons,rods and uprated bearings basically.

    Good luck.

  34. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    I think that sort of confirms it really,doesn't it.

    Going with a current engine,uprated everything,and essentially a new build would at least give you the safety of being able to replace parts easily.
    Even a stock block etc is good for 600bhp,as several people have found,and mine alone has reliably run 500bhp for a good couple of years,with nothing more than pistons,rods and uprated bearings basically.

    Good luck.
    Oh look I have just found 2 CDL engines in my garage I sense a winter build coming on LOL.

    You know I might junk my current flywheel and paddle clutch and put a new one in with 6 holes. I don't know the history of the clutch anyway so it is only a potential failure point for me in racing terms. BDM do a nice paddle setup for £800 ish I think. Ill give them a call. I hope this BWA block and crank is ok I am getting Saturday morning.

  35. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Oh look I have just found 2 CDL engines in my garage I sense a winter build coming on LOL.

    You know I might junk my current flywheel and paddle clutch and put a new one in with 6 holes. I don't know the history of the clutch anyway so it is only a potential failure point for me in racing terms. BDM do a nice paddle setup for £800 ish I think. Ill give them a call. I hope this BWA block and crank is ok I am getting Saturday morning.
    LOL....Xmas has arrived early in your garage!

    I went for the Spec Stg3+ clutch on mine,which is a carbon-metallic full face clutch and SMF derived from the US Grand-AM series,and is good for nearly 600lbs as well as being light and easy to use.

    Worth a look as are a lot of their other clutch options.

  36. #275
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    Just read your whole thread Mark. Top work Love it
    Dark Vader Half sibling - MyThread

  37. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash B View Post
    Just read your whole thread Mark. Top work Love it
    What the bit where I promptly blow it up LOL

    I shall say a prayer tonight that this engine that turns up tommorow has a decent block and crank.

  38. #277
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    Hmm just had this from BDM

    As discussed our race flywheel has a diameter 280mm (+/- a few mm. Checked by eye with tape meature!) and the clutch plate has a diameter of 240mm.

    Just measured mine and it's the following

    277mm flywheel 230mm clutch plate. How odd. The flywheel has 11 holes in it and so does the crank. I will ring Dialynx on Monday and try to find out what the hell it is.

  39. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Hmm just had this from BDM

    As discussed our race flywheel has a diameter 280mm (+/- a few mm. Checked by eye with tape meature!) and the clutch plate has a diameter of 240mm.

    Just measured mine and it's the following

    277mm flywheel 230mm clutch plate. How odd. The flywheel has 11 holes in it and so does the crank. I will ring Dialynx on Monday and try to find out what the hell it is.
    I know Dialynx has a good reputation,but that sounds like a real Frankenstein there.

    Perhaps using parts from a number of different engines to get the best bits,but it makes for a pig to repair/rebuild unless you have their original parts list.

  40. #279
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    Just stripped this second hand engine and I now have a good block with perfect bores and a perfect standard crank yayyy. Luckily the engine failure was a stripped timing belt and valve hit to piston.

    The crank out of this one is also a 6AAJ so identical to my knackered one albeit it has only 6 holes and not 11 LOL.

    I am going to fit a new race clutch and flywheel to this one.
    S3Alex likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Just stripped this second hand engine and I now have a good block with perfect bores and a perfect standard crank yayyy. Luckily the engine failure was a stripped timing belt and valve hit to piston.

    The crank out of this one is also a 6AAJ so identical to my knackered one albeit it has only 6 holes and not 11 LOL.

    I am going to fit a new race clutch and flywheel to this one.

    Decided on which clutch?

 

 
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