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Thread: 15Degrees-North S3 turbo Race Car build

  1. #201
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    Question.

    Can I change these lifters with top hat shims underneath them to hydraulic lifters on this head?

    Cheers
    Mark.

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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Question.

    Can I change these lifters with top hat shims underneath them to hydraulic lifters on this head?

    Cheers
    Mark.
    Surely you would be better off with solid lifters on a tuned motor - do the hydraulic lifters not pump up at high rpm (or am I still living in the dark ages?)?

  4. #203
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    Top hat

    Quote Originally Posted by dave_s View Post
    Surely you would be better off with solid lifters on a tuned motor - do the hydraulic lifters not pump up at high rpm (or am I still living in the dark ages?)?


    New hydraulic lifters are fine, look at performance cars or seat supa copas for example, or even race bikes revving to silly rpm. All have hydraulic lifters. This head is a 1992 MK2 golf head though and back then the lifters were 21 year old tech and not so good. I was hoping I could fit a modern hydraulic lifter but I can't after much investigation.

    So this is what you have to do with top hats. It's a PAIN with a capital P

    Measure all gaps and write them down next to each valave number on a bit of paper
    Remove cams
    Take out buckets
    Take out top hat shims and put them next to buckets in line
    Measure each top hat shim
    Work out the difference between the feeler gauge figure and what you need and the top hat thickness
    Get the top hats ground down what you need to make the gap correct
    Refit them all
    Refit cams
    Measure all gaps and write down the new figure, most will be nearly there now if you got your first measurements right
    Remove cams
    Remove buckets
    Remove top hats
    Get them ground again at your local friendly grinders the small amount they are still out
    Refit top hats
    Refit buckets
    Refit cams

    And about 8 hours later with aching back hope like hell they are all spot on otherwise it's all out again and much cussing and more achy back

  5. #204
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    Thats a real shame.

    Hope it doesn't slow your build down too much,and good luck with getting it all running.

  6. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    New hydraulic lifters are fine, look at performance cars or seat supa copas for example, or even race bikes revving to silly rpm. All have hydraulic lifters. This head is a 1992 MK2 golf head though and back then the lifters were 21 year old tech and not so good. I was hoping I could fit a modern hydraulic lifter but I can't after much investigation.

    So this is what you have to do with top hats. It's a PAIN with a capital P

    Measure all gaps and write them down next to each valave number on a bit of paper
    Remove cams
    Take out buckets
    Take out top hat shims and put them next to buckets in line
    Measure each top hat shim
    Work out the difference between the feeler gauge figure and what you need and the top hat thickness
    Get the top hats ground down what you need to make the gap correct
    Refit them all
    Refit cams
    Measure all gaps and write down the new figure, most will be nearly there now if you got your first measurements right
    Remove cams
    Remove buckets
    Remove top hats
    Get them ground again at your local friendly grinders the small amount they are still out
    Refit top hats
    Refit buckets
    Refit cams

    And about 8 hours later with aching back hope like hell they are all spot on otherwise it's all out again and much cussing and more achy back
    So I am living in the dark ages LOL.

    I remember the process vividly - only on an 8 valve motor, mind you. Took forever to set lash. Eventually had an engineer mate of mine make up buckets with a 'top hat' type gap filler piece (which he produced on lathe from phosphor bronze billet) peened to the bottom of the bucket which allowed me to use standard shims on top to set gaps. Made life easier for long term and never let me down! Still had to spend ages setting up though - sore back's all round!!

    Best of luck with the build - watching with great interest!

  7. #206
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    Ok So Update

    Chrispy and I had a MAMMOTH weekend on the car starting on Friday night. We finished at 1.45am with the shims ready to got for grinding at 7am in the morning to Miks place RP engineering (my saviour for all things made and grinded)

    Shims came back at lunch time on Saturday and then I spent 4 hours taking cams in and out to get them all to be spot on at 10 and 12 thou. I NEVER want to do that job again as long as I live LOL. I hate maths and it is so frustrating when you make a slight mistake on the mic and take too much off the shim and then it goes 2 thou too wide, all out again LOL. I got so good that I can now put both cams in and time them up in less than 4 mins LOL!

    We got the loom installed and nothing worked, much scratching of heads ensues and then I realised the cartech GT cutoff plug was not plugged in on the scuttle panel dohhhhhh. Et Voila all wiring now works

    Gave the engine a leak test and all are in the green now at between 10 and 18% so well pleased with that result. Turned the engine over and hoped liked hell to see oil at the top which after a few turns it appeared on all cam lobes so again a big sigh of relief and I fitted the cam cover on.

    Car is now ready to go for running in and mapping at last and I just rang Richard at tracktive to get that sorted. Bascially all jobs apart from fitting the video cameras are now done. The video camera stack mounts are too small for my roll cage so need Mik to make them bigger.


    Many thanks again to Chris who works so hard on these builds.

    Pics to follow later

  8. #207
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    Great news,after all that work.

    I wish you the best of luck with the running tests and mapping.

  9. #208
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    Cant wait to see you driving this.
    Best regards

    J$B
    Norway

  10. #209
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    Driving

    Quote Originally Posted by A3SBQ View Post
    Cant wait to see you driving this.

    You and me both buddy. I want to win in it It will be the only Audi on the track so im flying the flag. Booked in for two races on July 27th and 28th on brands hatch GP circuit which is just great. The car should come into its own there as its so fast and sweeping out the back there


    Hope it's ok on the dyno lol, always makes me nervous that with a new build.
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  11. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    You and me both buddy. I want to win in it It will be the only Audi on the track so im flying the flag. Booked in for two races on July 27th and 28th on brands hatch GP circuit which is just great. The car should come into its own there as its so fast and sweeping out the back there


    Hope it's ok on the dyno lol, always makes me nervous that with a new build.
    Really hope it goes well.

    Got some decent speeds out of mine down the straights before the suspension rebuild,and yours should fly round the bends.

  12. #211
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    Hope all goes well mate! Hope them Cams do you good!

  13. #212
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    So some more pictures for you.


    A nice shot of the cams installed with gaps set. I got sick of the sight of these LOL. Hydraulic lifters FTW



    A finished front end









    Th heat shield for the swirl pot



    Passenger side wiring station nd MOTEC






    My Video 4 box






    The digital radio I am using









    Switch panel all working now



    Haldex control knob is the bottom one with a light to tell me when its activated. I have an overide on the steering wheel.



    My AIM dash






    The scuttle buttons





  14. #213
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    You have done SO much work on this car,and totally transformed it from what it was not very long ago.

    I know I've said it before,but I truly wish you every success when it hits the track.

  15. #214
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    Just spent the last hour reading through this start to end, what a cracking build! Great attention to detail, very impressed.

    On a side note if you need some ARP bolts for the Quaife diff let me know, I have a new spare set.

  16. #215
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    Cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by TT-Turbo View Post
    Just spent the last hour reading through this start to end, what a cracking build! Great attention to detail, very impressed.

    On a side note if you need some ARP bolts for the Quaife diff let me know, I have a new spare set.

    Thanks for the vote. We are exploring the possibility of fitting a DSG box with paddle shift, complex but possibly dooable. If not then yes new diff in the manual box. It seems no one makes a sequential for these, at least not that I can find anyway.

  17. #216
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    Not sure if this is good for 2wd only but what about this- 02M Sequential Gearbox Volkswagen - KAPS Professional Racing Gearboxes

  18. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT-Turbo View Post
    Not sure if this is good for 2wd only but what about this- 02M Sequential Gearbox Volkswagen - KAPS Professional Racing Gearboxes
    What a chap That looks very nice As you say though wonder if the transfer box bolts onto that. I shall ask..

  19. #218
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    Does look quite trick, just depends on what ratios are in the box but guess you may be able to specify that. Seems the only box available for purchase in sequential, looks mega but i'm sure it's going to cost around the £5k mark though...

  20. #219
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    MSU

    Quote Originally Posted by TT-Turbo View Post
    Does look quite trick, just depends on what ratios are in the box but guess you may be able to specify that. Seems the only box available for purchase in sequential, looks mega but i'm sure it's going to cost around the £5k mark though...

    Only 5 MSU's thats cheap. LOL


    In case you didnt know everything in motorsport is categorised by MSU (Motorsport Standard Unit). Each unit costs a grand and everything is at least 1 MSU when you ask the price! So 5 is not bad at all. It's when it gets to ten and beyond I start to quake
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  21. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Only 5 MSU's thats cheap. LOL


    In case you didnt know everything in motorsport is categorised by MSU (Motorsport Standard Unit). Each unit costs a grand and everything is at least 1 MSU when you ask the price! So 5 is not bad at all. It's when it gets to ten and beyond I start to quake
    Haha, I will have to remember that one. I have spent many a MSU's over the years!

    Let us know how you get on with the Gearbox

  22. #221
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    Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TT-Turbo View Post
    Not sure if this is good for 2wd only but what about this- 02M Sequential Gearbox Volkswagen - KAPS Professional Racing Gearboxes

    That gearbox is 12000 euros plus extras

    The car is now over at Tracktive for Richard to work his magic. Cranking oil pressure is 2 bar I am told which is very good I think he is running it in today and then mapping it.

  23. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    That gearbox is 12000 euros plus extras

    The car is now over at Tracktive for Richard to work his magic. Cranking oil pressure is 2 bar I am told which is very good I think he is running it in today and then mapping it.
    Holy Sh**! I wasn't expecting 12MSA's! What extra's could they leave out? It's probably a bit more realistic to go for a dsg box for that price

  24. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT-Turbo View Post
    Holy Sh**! I wasn't expecting 12MSA's! What extra's could they leave out? It's probably a bit more realistic to go for a dsg box for that price
    It's what you pay for racing gear.

    I never got away with my old Escort costing less than £1k for a simple service.....if anything was broken,it was a LOT more.

  25. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT-Turbo View Post
    Holy Sh**! I wasn't expecting 12MSA's! What extra's could they leave out? It's probably a bit more realistic to go for a dsg box for that price
    Can I get a DSG box to work with the MOTEC? I assume you mean the DSGs that are on Ebay for £800 ish?

  26. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Can I get a DSG box to work with the MOTEC? I assume you mean the DSGs that are on Ebay for £800 ish?
    If you're thinking of DSG,its worth contacting Skippy on VAGOC.

    He rallies a TTRS and fitted a DSG box with some difficulty.

  27. #226
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    Car is with Richard at Tracktive and currently won't start doh. Scratch head moment it seems.

    Got oil pressure (2 bar at cranking)
    Got compression
    Got fuel to injectors
    Got sparks

    Hmmmm

  28. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Car is with Richard at Tracktive and currently won't start doh. Scratch head moment it seems.

    Got oil pressure (2 bar at cranking)
    Got compression
    Got fuel to injectors
    Got sparks

    Hmmmm
    Good luck....electrical and ECU problems are a real pain.

  29. #228
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    Yeah I think ECU myself because when it came back from interior loom a lot of the pins were altered on the ECU plugs.

  30. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    Yeah I think ECU myself because when it came back from interior loom a lot of the pins were altered on the ECU plugs.
    Sounds then as if something maybe isn't getting the info it needs,and won't run.
    I really do hope it's simple,as I know what a pain that can be.

  31. #230
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    She lives

    Hall switch was round the wrong way oddly. Few small niggles on the loom I.E you cant turn the car off LOL and the kill switch dont work. Nothing that can't be sorted. I am told the engine sounds very sweet. Being mapped now.

  32. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15Degrees View Post
    She lives

    Hall switch was round the wrong way oddly. Few small niggles on the loom I.E you cant turn the car off LOL and the kill switch dont work. Nothing that can't be sorted. I am told the engine sounds very sweet. Being mapped now.
    Good news.

    Glad it was something simple rather than something deep in the wiring or the ECU.

  33. #232
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    Wahey interested to see the results and howit drives!

  34. #233
    A3 SportBack 2TFSI quattro DSG

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    Perfect. Just need to see here running.
    Best regards

    J$B
    Norway

  35. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3SBQ View Post
    Perfect. Just need to see here running.
    Hi guys

    The car is now mapped and running fine, all my worrys about the wrong pistons etc setting te gaps wrong is gone yayyyyy. Couple of small oil leaks top end which have been fixed and some small wiring issues in that we can't turn the car off are being looked at. I am testing on Saturday at Bedford We have set the rev limiter to 8k as it pulls to there hard from 5k before dropping off slightly. That's great for me as most of my time is spent above 5k anyway.

    The haldex solution is also not working at present and being looked at.

  36. #235
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    Well done mate. Is good to see this running now.Take plenty of pics on track and some vids if poss
    2010 TT RS - Sepang Blue - MRC 420BHP, 600NM

    2010 Stage 2+ S-Tronic S3 BE SB in Ibis White!! ....... SOLD

  37. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimojameso View Post
    Well done mate. Is good to see this running now.Take plenty of pics on track and some vids if poss
    I am trying to get the video system installed Friday night. The box is in so I just have to put the cameras in and Mik has made my stack mounts a bit bigger now. I will probably address my whole dash system as the AIM one I have does not log so I can now get lap times but have no logger to look at my data. I might go back to the new dash 2 pro with built in gps and a DL1 logger like I had in the Clio or a motec dash with gps and logger built in.

    You know no matter how meticulously I build an engine I always get an oil leak LOL. Thankfully it's not the main oil seal on the crank ha ha

  38. #237
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    That's good to hear your happy! What were the Dyno figures?

  39. #238
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    Glad it's up and running.

    Good luck with the rest of this journey!

  40. #239
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    So we went for the test day at Bedford. The car is VERY quick and very planted. Sadly as test days are for finding issues we found the following:

    1. Small leak from the JIC connector to the condensate unit
    2. Rocker cover leaking (we fixed this tarck side)
    3. Tire rubbing on rear arch OS
    4. Fuel starvation issues on some corners on the 175 map and very severe on the 200 map with backfiring. Or what seemed like it.
    5. And the biggy. The power steering rack blew up and dumped all its oil and ended the session.
    6. Front pads too soft for my liking
    7. Seems like a small air lock in the water system as overheating in the corners and cooling on the straights

    So all are being fixed tommorow although the fuel issue or what seemed like that is more difficult to track down and fix as the swirl pot looks like its plumbed in correctly so to my mind it could be

    Swirl pot Plumbed in wrong
    Lifter pump on the way out and not filling it fast enough
    Something wrong with the maps

    Racing next Saturday

  41. #240
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    Mixed bag!

    Swirl pot and lift pump are obvious candidates given it happens under cornering.

    Good luck for the race!

 

 
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