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  1. #1
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    New clutch? Standard or uprated?

    The clutch on my A3 has done 80K plus and is starting to slip, currently only in 5th or 6th if I really boot it. Still gently using the car locally but need the job done in next week or so. No obvious issues with the DMF - no judderin/noises etc. Engine is remapped (205 bhp and 320 torques)

    1. Should I uprate the clutch?
    2. If not get one from stealers or aftermarket? (My local garage will fit it)
    3. Should I consider replacing the DMF whilst the clutch is apart.
    4. Any ideas on costs?

    What do you guys think?

    Alan

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  3. #2
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Hi....
    Love the name!.....it would suit me as well.
    My advice would be to go for the uprated Sachs organic,as you then have a significant margin,but you would need to change the DMF also,although at 80 000 miles,it should probably be replaced in any case.
    Cost would be around the £1k mark for the lot at a guess.

  4. #3
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Thanks Alex. Would that be A VAG DMF rplacement? Do you have any suggestions about where to get the Sachs?

  5. #4
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Boy-Racer View Post
    Thanks Alex. Would that be A VAG DMF rplacement? Do you have any suggestions about where to get the Sachs?
    I use AMDEssex for all my work.

    The DMF is the standard LUK part that VAG use.

  6. #5
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Found a complete kit at Darkside (Sachs 2.0 TDi 6 Speed 02Q Dual Mass Flywheel with Sachs SRE Performance Clutch Kit) for £820

  7. #6
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    I use AMDEssex for all my work.

    The DMF is the standard LUK part that VAG use.
    Couldn't find any clutch links on AMD site. I'll phone them.

  8. #7
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Boy-Racer View Post
    Couldn't find any clutch links on AMD site. I'll phone them.
    Just give Ben a call and he should be able to help.

    They've done a fantastic job for me and if you're anywhere near I'd recommend them.

  9. #8
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Just spoken to them. ABout £1500 inc fitting (Clutch and DMF).

    I am in a quandary as my warranty would cover flywheel but not clutch, and flywheel seems OK at present.

    Warranty might have a problem paying for Sachs flywheel - so have to be VAG
    Do I just get the clutch done and wait for the flywheel to fail then do that on warranty?
    Do I get both done and pay myself?
    Is it possible to tell whether a DMF is poorly when they take the clutch out? Or do you have to wait for it to break?

  10. #9
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Boy-Racer View Post
    Just spoken to them. ABout £1500 inc fitting (Clutch and DMF). I am in a quandary as my warranty would cover flywheel but not clutch, and flywheel seems OK at present.Warranty might have a problem paying for Sachs flywheel - so have to be VAGDo I just get the clutch done and wait for the flywheel to fail then do that on warranty?Do I get both done and pay myself?Is it possible to tell whether a DMF is poorly when they take the clutch out? Or do you have to wait for it to break?
    The flywheel would almost certainly need replacing,not only on grounds of age,but also the clutch and flywheel wear together,so I would do both.
    As you've remapped the car,your warranty would be technically invalid in any case.

  11. #10
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Spoken to my mechanic (used him for years). He agrees with you. Very reluctant to do the clutch without DMF. Reckons warranty would only pay out for catastrophic failure anyway. Better to just bite the bullet and sort it now.

    He does reckon the standard VAG items are man enough though - as did R-Tech when they did the remap. Just got to decide whether to go VAG or Sachs?

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Boy-Racer View Post
    Spoken to my mechanic (used him for years). He agrees with you. Very reluctant to do the clutch without DMF. Reckons warranty would only pay out for catastrophic failure anyway. Better to just bite the bullet and sort it now.

    He does reckon the standard VAG items are man enough though - as did R-Tech when they did the remap. Just got to decide whether to go VAG or Sachs?
    In my opinion, given that the labour will cost as much as the parts, I'd spend a little bit extra and go for the Sachs clutch - while the OEM parts may be cheaper, you'll be kicking yourself if (when) you have to fork out for another lot of labour to replace the clutch again.

  13. #12
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Boy-Racer View Post
    Spoken to my mechanic (used him for years). He agrees with you. Very reluctant to do the clutch without DMF. Reckons warranty would only pay out for catastrophic failure anyway. Better to just bite the bullet and sort it now.He does reckon the standard VAG items are man enough though - as did R-Tech when they did the remap. Just got to decide whether to go VAG or Sachs?
    Hi there.....you know what I'm going to say...get the Sachs as you know it'll take some abuse if you take the time to run it in gently.....mine dealt with over 400lbs of torque before finally throwing in the towel at somewhere over 450lbs.

  14. #13
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    I hear you. Ironically the VAG parts are around £950 + VAT (without bolts) and the flywheel has to be ordered (7-10 days) but a complete Sachs kit is £984 inc VAT bolts and release bearing. Bit of a no-brainer really.

  15. #14
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Had a good chat with Scott at Darkside this morning. The full Sachs kit not in stock (they get the clutch plate direct from Sachs - about four days delivery) but they do a combo kit: Genuine SACHS 240mm Dual Mass Flywheel -Darkside 240mm Sintered Paddle Clutch Disc - Darkside 240mm Grooved Pressure Plate -Release Bearing - Flywheel and Pressure Plate Bolts which has worked out at £762 inc VAT and delivery.

    It will easily handle 390 lbs plus and the weight on the clutch pedal is much nearer to stock (big plus as the good lady sometimes drives it). Might not last quite as long as the Sachs but should still be good for 60-70K (I doubt I'll still be the owner then - I only do about 3-5K a year). Should be with me on Tues which is good news as I need to go somewhere in it next Fri. Very good value (but not a cheapie) and Darkside seem to have a good reputation.

    I'll report back on it when I've had a drive.

    Alex: When you say run it in - for how many miles?


    Thanks for all the advice guys.

    Regards Alan

  16. #15
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Boy-Racer View Post
    Had a good chat with Scott at Darkside this morning. The full Sachs kit not in stock (they get the clutch plate direct from Sachs - about four days delivery) but they do a combo kit: Genuine SACHS 240mm Dual Mass Flywheel -Darkside 240mm Sintered Paddle Clutch Disc - Darkside 240mm Grooved Pressure Plate -Release Bearing - Flywheel and Pressure Plate Bolts which has worked out at £762 inc VAT and delivery.

    It will easily handle 390 lbs plus and the weight on the clutch pedal is much nearer to stock (big plus as the good lady sometimes drives it). Might not last quite as long as the Sachs but should still be good for 60-70K (I doubt I'll still be the owner then - I only do about 3-5K a year). Should be with me on Tues which is good news as I need to go somewhere in it next Fri. Very good value (but not a cheapie) and Darkside seem to have a good reputation.

    I'll report back on it when I've had a drive.

    Alex: When you say run it in - for how many miles?


    Thanks for all the advice guys.

    Regards Alan
    Hi Alan,

    I gave it about a thousand miles,but certainly a good few hundred is essential to bed the organic clutches in.

    If you don't,and you hoof it in that time,it's likely to trash itself fairly quickly.

    A sintered paddle clutch wouldn't have been my first choice to be honest.......you don't get much progression between in and out,and you can't really afford to slip one of these much as it will burn itself up.
    They are great at transferring torque,but not the best around town.

    Part of the reason I chose a full faced clutch was to avoid that,as well as gaining a lot more in terms of torque limits.


    BTW...with a sintered clutch,you won't need much in the way of bedding in,as it's a bronze material that the pads are made of.

  17. #16
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Hmm! Worried I might have made a big mistake.

    Info on web page says:
    This kit is designed to directly replace the stock Clutch Disc and Pressure Plate fitted to the 1.9/2.0 TDI 6 Speed vehicles
    It is rated to 375Ft/Lbs (510Nm) and is suited to Daily Driving
    Last edited by Old-Boy-Racer; 14th July 2012 at 22:56. Reason: Additional info

  18. #17
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Hi Alan,

    I gave it about a thousand miles,but certainly a good few hundred is essential to bed the organic clutches in.

    If you don't,and you hoof it in that time,it's likely to trash itself fairly quickly.

    A sintered paddle clutch wouldn't have been my first choice to be honest.......you don't get much progression between in and out,and you can't really afford to slip one of these much as it will burn itself up.
    They are great at transferring torque,but not the best around town.

    Part of the reason I chose a full faced clutch was to avoid that,as well as gaining a lot more in terms of torque limits.


    BTW...with a sintered clutch,you won't need much in the way of bedding in,as it's a bronze material that the pads are made of.
    Hi Alex
    I can't believe what a plonker I've been! I ask your advice then ignore it. My only excuse it I really wanted to go to the Silverstone Classic weekend on Friday and the Darkside solution (which sounded fine when I talked to them) meant I could sort the clutch out by then. Worst case: I'll hire a car for the weekend. Sorted!

    I have emailed Darkside asking to change the order to the full Sachs Organic and I'll phone them first thing tomorrow to follow up. If it's gone out I'll have to send the Darkside bits back to them at my cost. Important to get this right and I don't see the wife managing an "on/off" clutch (probably irritate the hell out of me too!)

  19. #18
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Despite it being Sunday Scott (Darksidedevelopments) got back to me. He has not sent it out yet and is happy to amend the order. So (FINALLY) the die is cast; the whole clutch will be Sachs.

    Sachs 2.0 TDi Dual Mass Flywheel with Sachs SRE Performance Clutch Kit
    This kit consists of:
    Genuine SACHS 240mm Dual Mass Flywheel
    Genuine SACHS SRE Clutch Disc (organic)
    Genuine SACHS SRE Pressure Plate
    Release Bearing (Optional)
    Flywheel and Pressure Plate Bolts
    SACHS Installation Lube


  20. #19
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Hi!

    That's great service you've had there.

    I just think the organic will be a lot more user friendly and providing its bedded in properly I know it can handle the torque easily.

    Hope you're happy with the results.

  21. #20
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Thanks Alex. Your advice is much appreciated. I'll report back in a week or so when it's in - and I'll take the time to bed it in.

  22. #21
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Boy-Racer View Post
    Thanks Alex. Your advice is much appreciated. I'll report back in a week or so when it's in - and I'll take the time to bed it in.
    Hi!.

    I just hope you're happy with the result.....it suited me,but you never know how someone else feels taking your advice!

  23. #22
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Kit arrived at 11.00 this morning - lovely looking bit of engineering! Scott found one Sachs clutch disc on the shelf. So I just need to get it fitted.

    I get your drift about advice (quote: "No good turn goes unpunished"). At the end of the day advice is the (primarily subjective) opinion of the advisor, and it's up to the advisee to determine whether to accept or reject it. If the advice comes from actual experience - so much the better. Yours confirmed what I had already heard from other sources and just gave me the confidence to go ahead with the Sachs upgrade. It also took into account my personal criteria and so was more objective than most.

    From everything I've read the new clutch should handle the extra torque well. Only downside might be a slightly heavier pedal action, which I can live with. No design is perfect - they all contain compromises!

    I teach Design Technology and am constantly advising students on how to manufacture or improve their designs. I am invariably right (30+ years of experience!) but it is up to them whether they accept my advice about THEIR project. Teenagers being whatthey are they often do it their way first anyway. Provided we have time I rarely discourage this as they learn more from their failures than their successes. That being said, they sometimes prove me wrong which teaches me something!

    One thing I've learned is that there is a wealth of knowledge and experience out there about things I have yet to experience and I'd be pretty foolish to ignore the recieved wisdom. So far: advice I have recieved on sites like this has all been good and I'm sure yours will be too. If I don't like the new clutch - well that's down to me!

    Cheers
    Alan

  24. #23
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Thanks very much Alan.....I think you'll find it's almost the same in feel as the stock clutch,but a lot tougher!

  25. #24
    S3Alex's Avatar
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    Thanks again.

    This place and my other home over at VAGOC have given me so much help in getting my car to where it is that if I give something back it pays some of that back.

    Mine went from a stock S3 to its current form but without that help and the work from AMDEssex it wouldnt have come close.

    Hope it works well for you.

  26. #25
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Hi Scott

    I did wonder of that was you on VAGOC. I've now joined (same user name)

    I know what you mean about advice and encouragement. It's nice to be able to gve back.

    Without AudiSRS I would never have solved a turbo problem with my S4 (small rubber tube on the wastegate actuator). Made up a pressure tester (to instructions from the site) which found the leak (smoke test etc had missed it!) Still had to pull the motor to get at it though!

    UKMkIVS and GolfGTi forums were a big help with both finding and mapping my Golf Anniversary. Very supportive in Feb when the Landrover Disco wrote it off.

    You can keep Twitter and Facebook etc. Forums are the dogs doodahs!

    Just waiting to get an email back from Darkside. My mechanic has just inspected the kit and is concerned that by mounting the pressure plate and disc to the flywheel for transit it will now be in automatic adjust mode. Thus when he separates them it will adjust itself fully and need winding back with a special tool.

    Nothing's ever simple. The chances of making it to the Silverstone Classic on Friday are fast disappearing!

  27. #26
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Again; excellent support from Darkside. Ryan replied to my email within the hour despite it being out of hours and with the following information: "Its not a concern, the clutch just needs depressing 10+ times after fitting prior to starting the engine."

    So, fingers crossed, I might get to the Silverstone Classic after all!

  28. #27
    Old-Boy-Racer
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    Clutch is in - unfortunately it's still slipping!

    Mechanic did the 10 plus presses of the clutch before starting as instructed. He took it out and drove round gently for half an hour, nice easy gear selection, pedal a lot lighter than he expected but all seemed fine. He gave it a bit of welly at 40 in 4th and the revs jumped up by 500 so he backed off - definitely not wheelspin. Tried a bit more throttle in 5th and same thing happened. He reckons its slipping as soon as any boost comes in from the turbo.

    He did comment that the slipping clutch he took out didn't look badly worn enough to be causing it to slip.

    One possible answer could be the fexible hose to the slave cylinder. He had a Civic with the same problem and the hose had collapsed inside preventing the slave returning completely. Any thoughts?

    Looks like getting to Silverstone tomorrow (sorry today!) is not going to happen.

 

 

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