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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Oil Pressure: I'm in a fix and need advice

    Hi guys,

    I'm in a fix. I spent ages tracking down my ideal A3 (2006 2.0TFSI Quattro), purchased it and picked it up a few days ago from a reputable dealer. It had a comprehensive AA inspection (arrange by me) on the day of purchase and passed with flying colors ....

    On the evening of purchase, after driving fine all day, I had to stop the car and get it recovered with the AA due to red oil can pressure warning and the oil level was fine. Dealer sent a flatbed the following day.

    Today they say they can't find anything wrong, and the only faults logged were low battery (probably due to hazards on waiting for recovery) and oil temp too high (though when driving the oil temp was always 90 or under on the dash). They have driven it all day with no problems / errors and advise I pick it up and they will recover the car if it happens again.

    Is this the standard approach? Would they not change the sensors / pump as a matter of course given the possible disaster of loosing oil pressure? I don't want a time bomb on my hands and don't know if I am being fobbed off or if they should do more to solve the problem in your opinions.

    Help!
    Thanks
    Last edited by wuta3; 9th July 2012 at 19:06.

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  3. #2
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    no point changing stuff for one time light
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    have they checked the actual oil pressure with a separate gauge and run it up to temp, trying it at different engine speeds etc? changed the oil to make sure its got fresh oil of the correct type?
    or just had a nosey under the bonnet then driven it round to see if it would come on again?
    Last edited by murran; 9th July 2012 at 19:23.

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste_Nova View Post
    no point changing stuff for one time light
    Is it common for the oil pressure warning to come on as a one-off and not happen again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by murran View Post
    have they checked the actual oil pressure with a separate gauge and run it up to temp, trying it at different engine speeds etc? changed the oil to make sure its got fresh oil of the correct type?
    or just had a nosey under the bonnet then driven it round to see if it would come on again?
    Not sure, the engineer just said he checked the logged error codes and it has been driven all day without producing any problems.

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    I think they only have a 3 month responsibility window. If the oil pump fails in 3 months and 1 day and I suspected an oil issue then egg on my face really.

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    atleast now the dealer/garage is now liable to fix it if it blows up as its them thats sent you back out on the road in a car thats got a suspect oil pressure problem against your wishes!!

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    Could be to do with the low battery faults tend to come up when the battery is low.. I'm no expert but having had a flat battery all my lights came up for a while and gradually disappeared one by one?
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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesO View Post
    Could be to do with the low battery faults tend to come up when the battery is low.. I'm no expert but having had a flat battery all my lights came up for a while and gradually disappeared one by one?
    Hi, I think the low battery was caused by having the hazards and sidelights on waiting for recovery, though it was only an hour or two ... wouldn't have thought that would flatten the battery?

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murran View Post
    atleast now the dealer/garage is now liable to fix it if it blows up as its them thats sent you back out on the road in a car thats got a suspect oil pressure problem against your wishes!!
    Dubious way to begin ownership though ...

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    well if they wont look further
    i would pay to have the sump off and check replace the pickup pipe

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    Hi, I think the low battery was caused by having the hazards and sidelights on waiting for recovery, though it was only an hour or two ... wouldn't have thought that would flatten the battery?
    They normally have good batteries but if it's not had a run in a while ie round the forecourt etc it could have been low... Because the garage have left it running for all that time maybe it is ok now? Might be worth getting an independent vw/Audi specialist to have a look an hours labour at tops 50 quid well spent if there is a problem

    Not the Audi dealership or they will have your pants down before you finish your free coffee
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesO View Post
    They normally have good batteries but if it's not had a run in a while ie round the forecourt etc it could have been low... Because the garage have left it running for all that time maybe it is ok now? Might be worth getting an independent vw/Audi specialist to have a look an hours labour at tops 50 quid well spent if there is a problem

    Not the Audi dealership or they will have your pants down before you finish your free coffee
    I had been driving the car all day and the battery was checked after a recharge. I'll check this out though ...

    Audi does make expensive burnt filter coffee, thanks for the advice

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    well if they wont look further
    i would pay to have the sump off and check replace the pickup pipe
    Thanks bez101, is pickup pipe or blockage a common issue that could lead to oil pressure issues intermittently ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    I had been driving the car all day and the battery was checked after a recharge. I'll check this out though ...

    Audi does make expensive burnt filter coffee, thanks for the advice
    I know it's a killer having to spend any money on car you've just bought but 50 quid for a good look over with such a short warranty at least covers you.. Mine had a few problems that went undetected when I got it, they are a great car but like any car that's 6 years old it depends on how well it's been looked after, any problems get them nipped now for free :-)
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    Fossie

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    You say it's from a reputable dealer. Then tell them you are unhappy with the situation and, for your peace of mind and their reputation, suggest they should provide twelve months warranty with particular emphasis on the engine/oil light problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    Thanks bez101, is pickup pipe or blockage a common issue that could lead to oil pressure issues intermittently ?
    yes but if its blocked blocking it will **** the engine
    what dealer was it from
    how long warranty ?

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike foster View Post
    You say it's from a reputable dealer. Then tell them you are unhappy with the situation and, for your peace of mind and their reputation, suggest they should provide twelve months warranty with particular emphasis on the engine/oil light problem.
    Thanks Mike
    That's not a bad idea ...

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    yes
    what dealer was it from
    how long warranty ?
    I don't want to name the dealer for now, don't think it is fair in the middle of a situation? 3 month warranty with optional extension (at cost). Would blockage be so intermittent? Ie, warning light one day then nothing being driven all day the following? Thanks

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    I don't want to name the dealer for now, don't think it is fair in the middle of a situation? 3 month warranty with optional extension (at cost)
    i cant see how nameing the dealer aint fair ?
    if you bought a car from me i would have done the same as them cos really if its blocking it would have done it again by now
    but if i had bought the car you have i would have the sump off at my cost for peace of mind

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    i cant see how nameing the dealer aint fair ?
    if you bought a car from me i would have done the same as them cos really if its blocking it would have done it again by now
    but if i had bought the car you have i would have the sump off at my cost for peace of mind
    Fair enough, I just want to ensure that all checks have been done as breakdown on day of purchase isn't a good omen and i'm not an expert on these things. The dealer may continue looking after the situation in which case I don't want to negatively impact their reputation in any way on the Internet. Thanks for the advice though, I may do this to ensure peace of mind as you say.
    Last edited by wuta3; 9th July 2012 at 21:25.

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    You never answered in your other thread how many oil changes the car has had???
    You said its been on the longlife service plan
    As i said mine is a similar age to urs never had the oil pressure light come up on mine owned it for 3 years 30k+ miles
    I would refuse to collect the car again until they have changed the pick up pipe!
    Otherwise your gonna end up with a fooked engine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmax7 View Post
    You never answered in your other thread how many oil changes the car has had???
    You said its been on the longlife service plan
    As i said mine is a similar age to urs never had the oil pressure light come up on mine owned it for 3 years 30k+ miles
    I would refuse to collect the car again until they have changed the pick up pipe!
    Otherwise your gonna end up with a fooked engine!
    Thanks Antmax, I have asked them to do this and they agreed. Not sure how many oil changes it has had. I misunderstood you before, the car is serviced annually, not every 2 years.

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    Older VAG models have been plagued with oil pressure issues, typically caused by sludge building up in the sump and around the pickup pipe and clogging it up. While these havent been seen much on the newer TFSI models, its mainly due to their age rather than anything else, and i suspect we'll start to see more of it as these cars get older, especially as they filter down into the hands of people who are somewhat more lax on servicing the car.

    Simply put, the sludge forms as a result of inadequate servicing.

    However, Given its happened on cars with full Audi service histories, this suggests to me that the culprit is that the new "long-life" service intervals are simply far too long. Great to get the car thru the warranty period as cheaply as possible, crap for us folk who buy cars later in their life. My own car has an excellent service history, but spent the first 8 years of its life on AVS and only got the oil changed 4 times. Luckily the previous owner to me switched to standard annual/10k services, but even so the engine internals are fairly manky.

    I change my oil every 5 thousand miles on all my cars. Thats about 4 times as often as Audi would suggest, and even after that time it comes out properly filthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Older VAG models have been plagued with oil pressure issues, typically caused by sludge building up in the sump and around the pickup pipe and clogging it up. While these havent been seen much on the newer TFSI models, its mainly due to their age rather than anything else, and i suspect we'll start to see more of it as these cars get older, especially as they filter down into the hands of people who are somewhat more lax on servicing the car.

    Simply put, the sludge forms as a result of inadequate servicing.

    However, Given its happened on cars with full Audi service histories, this suggests to me that the culprit is that the new "long-life" service intervals are simply far too long. Great to get the car thru the warranty period as cheaply as possible, crap for us folk who buy cars later in their life.
    ^^^^ this.

    its more hardend carbonised oil than sludge. the layers form and then as it gets thicker its starts it flake off in bits, these bits floating round in the sump are pulled into the strainer on the pick up pipe to the oil pump.... and the oil pump cant drag sufficeint flow thru it to keep the pressure up in the engine.
    with a separate guage on it (connected up by removing the oil light switch and putting the gauge in its place), often the oil pressure looks ok at idle (25-30 psi), but at a constant high idle (2500-3k rpm) it struggles to make the pressure required to lubricate the engine fully (50-60psi).
    being that the oil light switch is rated at like 10-15psi.......... you can see the danger of driving it..... if your doing 80 on the motorway with 20psi oil pressure the oil light will be off......... by the time the oil light finally comes on, the engine (and your turbo) is toast. and you had no warning!

    another example of how audi/vw have gone backwards!
    go back 20-25 years......... you had two oil light switches, one for idle up to 2300 rpm rated at 1bar and another for 2300+rpm rated at 2.5bar.
    so any drop in pressure is picked up on.
    as the rev counter passed 2300rpm the pressure needed to be atleast 2.5bar to keep the light off.
    you couldnt be blindly doing 80 on the motorway with 1.5 bar of oil pressure thinking everything is fine.

    even t3 transporters had two switches set up like this!
    versprung durtch technik indeed. in a world of ecus and can-bus whyever they went back to just having one switch, i dont know.
    Last edited by murran; 10th July 2012 at 18:45.

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Older VAG models have been plagued with oil pressure issues, typically caused by sludge building up in the sump and around the pickup pipe and clogging it up. While these havent been seen much on the newer TFSI models, its mainly due to their age rather than anything else, and i suspect we'll start to see more of it as these cars get older, especially as they filter down into the hands of people who are somewhat more lax on servicing the car.

    Simply put, the sludge forms as a result of inadequate servicing.

    However, Given its happened on cars with full Audi service histories, this suggests to me that the culprit is that the new "long-life" service intervals are simply far too long. Great to get the car thru the warranty period as cheaply as possible, crap for us folk who buy cars later in their life. My own car has an excellent service history, but spent the first 8 years of its life on AVS and only got the oil changed 4 times. Luckily the previous owner to me switched to standard annual/10k services, but even so the engine internals are fairly manky.

    I change my oil every 5 thousand miles on all my cars. Thats about 4 times as often as Audi would suggest, and even after that time it comes out properly filthy.
    Thanks Aragorn, the car had been annually serviced IIRC (the service manual is with the car atm). The majority of posts in other threads is pickup pipe related too so I'm making doubly sure they check this. Thanks for the details, there's no way im ever putting the car on long-life!

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    Quote Originally Posted by murran View Post
    ^^^^ this.

    its more hardend carbonised oil than sludge. the layers form and then as it gets thicker its starts it flake off in bits, these bits floating round in the sump are pulled into the strainer on the pick up pipe to the oil pump.... and the oil pump cant drag sufficeint flow thru it to keep the pressure up in the engine.
    with a separate guage on it (connected up by removing the oil light switch and putting the gauge in its place), often the oil pressure looks ok at idle (25-30 psi), but at a constant high idle (2500-3k rpm) it struggles to make the pressure required to lubricate the engine fully (50-60psi).
    being that the oil light switch is rated at like 10-15psi.......... you can see the danger of driving it..... if your doing 80 on the motorway with 20psi oil pressure the oil light will be off......... by the time the oil light finally comes on, the engine (and your turbo) is toast. and you had no warning!

    another example of how audi/vw have gone backwards!
    go back 20-25 years......... you had two oil light switches, one for idle up to 2300 rpm rated at 1bar and another for 2300+rpm rated at 2.5bar.
    so any drop in pressure is picked up on.
    as the rev counter passed 2300rpm the pressure needed to be atleast 2.5bar to keep the light off.
    you couldnt be blindly doing 80 on the motorway with 1.5 bar of oil pressure thinking everything is fine.

    even t3 transporters had two switches set up like this!
    versprung durtch technik indeed. in a world of ecus and can-bus whyever they went back to just having one switch, i dont know.
    Thanks Murran, very much appriciated. im making double sure they check the pickup pipe. Really interesting details on the psi/revs stuff and potential damage to the engine. I find it hard to think that the initial diagnostic approach taken by the dealer (whose on site garage is Audi specialist says their marketing) was driving it all day to see if the light reappeared when it seems well known this problem exists and doesn't always cause a dash or ECU error. Either way, they seem to be going all out to ensure they have investigated everything after mentioning these issues and that I wanted them ruling out before taking the car back ... so that's good.

    Hopefully the car comes back in good nick and the issue was caught early enough if indeed it was an actual issue and not a knocked pressure switch from it's very recent service.

    Is it one or the other with an issue like this if engine oil pressure is too low? Failure or all is OK? Or can subtle damage be done?
    Last edited by wuta3; 10th July 2012 at 21:24.

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    To answer the last part of your post if there is not enough pressure to pump the oil around your engine it will cause damage as to how much damage depends on engine speed type of oil being used quite a few factors as has been said earlier on.
    As for your car ask for the old pick up pipe don't let them fob you off again. I would make them change it reguard less.
    As for the pressure switch getting knocked they dont need to go near it!

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    I had a MK4 Golf GTi and throughout it's whole life it had been on AVS, I had this exact same issue, Oil Pressure warning light came on intermittantly, had it looked at by a garage who couldnt find the fault, it turned out to be the beggining of the end as eventually the light came on and stayed on and turned out to be a blocked strainer and pick up pipe, the car had done 198,000 miles and I think if the problem had been picked up and resolved then should would have gone to the moon and back again. My advice would be get a refund and don't even risk it, find another one that dosen't have these issues
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydav2306 View Post
    I had a MK4 Golf GTi and throughout it's whole life it had been on AVS, I had this exact same issue, Oil Pressure warning light came on intermittantly, had it looked at by a garage who couldnt find the fault, it turned out to be the beggining of the end as eventually the light came on and stayed on and turned out to be a blocked strainer and pick up pipe, the car had done 198,000 miles and I think if the problem had been picked up and resolved then should would have gone to the moon and back again. My advice would be get a refund and don't even risk it, find another one that dosen't have these issues
    Thanks jaydav2306 - I don't want to jump the gun on a refund for an oil pressure light one time, and the dealer is replacing the pickup pipe etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmax7 View Post
    To answer the last part of your post if there is not enough pressure to pump the oil around your engine it will cause damage as to how much damage depends on engine speed type of oil being used quite a few factors as has been said earlier on.
    As for your car ask for the old pick up pipe don't let them fob you off again. I would make them change it reguard less.
    As for the pressure switch getting knocked they dont need to go near it!
    Thanks antmax7, Yep I have asked that they replace the pickup pipe Everyone's help here is great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuta3 View Post
    I think they only have a 3 month responsibility window. If the oil pump fails in 3 months and 1 day and I suspected an oil issue then egg on my face really.
    you can suspect all you want, the garage have checked the car and say its ok, as long as it lasts the 3 months they don't care, if it blows up on 3 months and 1 day it will be your own issue..... but i still wouldn't do anything unless it comes on again
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    I can understand that I would just make sure that you get something in writing just in case, some kind of extended warrantly just on theat light
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydav2306 View Post
    I can understand that I would just make sure that you get something in writing just in case, some kind of extended warrantly just on theat light
    what next?? free coffee and a fit receptionist
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    Hell yeah! lol
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    I'm jumping on the Oil Pick up pipe as well because I had the same problem.

    My Oil Pressure light would come on and go off straight away about once a week, after the 2nd time it happened (thinking the first time may have just been a one-off) I inspected the pick-up pipe and found a build up of sludge. The pipe was replaced around 3 months ago and it hasnt came on since.

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    wuta3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb0o View Post
    I'm jumping on the Oil Pick up pipe as well because I had the same problem.

    My Oil Pressure light would come on and go off straight away about once a week, after the 2nd time it happened (thinking the first time may have just been a one-off) I inspected the pick-up pipe and found a build up of sludge. The pipe was replaced around 3 months ago and it hasnt came on since.
    Yea this does seem the most likely culprit. It has only come on once for me (on day of purchase) and they are now checking the pickup pipe and replacing it as well as external oil pressure check etc. So, I think i'm happy to take it back

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    when theyve got the pick up off tell them to get a good torch and shine it down the end of the pipe that goes to the pump and you look thru the strainer.... can you see the light thru the strainer 100%?

  40. #39
    wuta3's Avatar
    5th Gear

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    Well an update. The dealer replaced the pick up pipe, saw the old one ... it was on its way to blocked but not as chronic as some I have seen on the forums. Car is now driving fine, drove it all day today. Idling a bit rough, but will keep an eye on that over the weekend.
    Thanks for all your help guys.

  41. #40
    6th Gear

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    if its even half blocked it'll be causing the oil pump problems with what it needs to draw up.

 

 
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