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Thread: Help please, S3 or RS3?

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    Gr
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    Help please, S3 or RS3?

    Hello,

    First of all I am new here so please go easy. But this seemed to be the best place to post this question.

    Second of all here is some background about me.
    I currently have an Audi A4 S-Line 2.0T 07 Plate in black & I live in Peterborough in Cambridgeshire

    Third of all and on to the main part, the question isn't quite as simple as you would have thought.

    I am currently trying to make my mind up whether to get an Audi S3 8P3 (as you call it here), or an Audi RS3.
    My budget is around £45,000 but I can stretch it a bit.

    I would ideally like a 3 Door car, so that is why I would prefer a S3 8P3 rather than an RS3.

    There are the two that I am currently looking at:

    S3
    Vehicle View - Audi S3 2.0 T FSI quattro Black Edition S Tronic - Peterborough

    RS3
    Vehicle View - Audi RS3 Sportback 2.5 T FSI quattro S tronic - Cambridge


    How much would I have to spend to get the S3 on par with the RS3 for speed?
    Not bothered about top speed, mainly 0 - 60 because there are some roads that I have to pull out on that are 60's.

    Regarding speed, what would you have done. A remap I presume but then what?

    Are there any major differences between the S3 and the RS3?
    If it was your money which would you buy and why?

    Arguably some of you are wondering why would I buy the S3 not the RS3, but I am looking at moving house soon so the extra money that I could save would go towards that.

    Thanks in advance,

    G

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    JPK
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    A stage 2 remap on the S3 with downpipe & intake should get you on par with the RS3 in terms of HP. The K04 would
    be pretty maxed out at 350BHP though. Should be no more than 2k GBP for this.

    Not sure where you would end up in terms of torque with the remap. From what ive read the RS3s torque down low is far greater than the 2.0 TSI S3, being a 2.5.

    As a comparison, with a remapped RS3 you can get around 450BHP without much effort/expense.

    Other than that, RS3 suspension, brakes, interior is a higher spec than the S3.

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    RS3 hand down.
    Then map it
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    You'll also need to budget for a clutch as well(Approx 1200 for a Sachs clutch). S3 clutches are like cheese

    I'd say you wouldn't have much change out of 3-4k if you want to match the rs3s figures
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    RS3

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    I personally would buy the S3 then just take it to stage 1. If you really NEED to get more performance than this then you can modify further, but if you're coming from a 2.0t A4, then a mapped S3 is more than what you need (S Tronic - so no real clutch worries). The RS3 is quicker with more low down torque, of that I cannot argue, but at an 11K premium (based on the 2 you've posted links to) I just dont think the extra perfomance in the real world is justified by the extra outlay. Just my 2P.

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    I'm with bigyin on this one. With the risk of drawing the ire of some members on here, I think the RS3 is massively overpriced for what it is. Is it a good car? Yes. A desirable one? Absolutely. A VFM one? Nope

    A stage 1 S3 (cost circa £500) will be pushing out 300 odd bhp (compared to your current around 200) and a 0-60 time near as dammit to 5 secs, fast enough for most. An RS would definitely give you bragging rights (if that's what you're after) and wouldn't depreciate as much but if we only considered resale value no-one would buy cars!

    Apart from a bit of discreet badging, minor cosmetic differences and a couple of toys you'll struggle to tell the difference between the two cars interiors. Running costs will also be a bit higher on the RS but if you're considering that sort of outlay I wouldn't have thought thats a problem for you.

    Ultimately they're both great cars and you'd be happy with either, the question of whether the RS is worth the extra only you can answer but personal opinion - in your situation I'd go for the S.
    S3 8P2 Ice Silver, RNS-E, Bluetooth, iPod connection, Adaptive xenons, black styling pack, sunroof, privacy glass
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    £45k budget.............no brainer for me really. RS3 wins hands down as long as you can live with it being a FB. But as the Bigyin said coming from an A4 the S3's performance should be more than enough once its been mapped (approx 300bhp) so is it worth the extra £11k?? We shall see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr View Post
    Hello,

    First of all I am new here so please go easy. But this seemed to be the best place to post this question.

    Second of all here is some background about me.
    I currently have an Audi A4 S-Line 2.0T 07 Plate in black & I live in Peterborough in Cambridgeshire

    Third of all and on to the main part, the question isn't quite as simple as you would have thought.

    I am currently trying to make my mind up whether to get an Audi S3 8P3 (as you call it here), or an Audi RS3.
    My budget is around £45,000 but I can stretch it a bit.

    I would ideally like a 3 Door car, so that is why I would prefer a S3 8P3 rather than an RS3.

    There are the two that I am currently looking at:

    S3
    Vehicle View - Audi S3 2.0 T FSI quattro Black Edition S Tronic - Peterborough

    RS3
    Vehicle View - Audi RS3 Sportback 2.5 T FSI quattro S tronic - Cambridge


    How much would I have to spend to get the S3 on par with the RS3 for speed?
    Not bothered about top speed, mainly 0 - 60 because there are some roads that I have to pull out on that are 60's.

    Regarding speed, what would you have done. A remap I presume but then what?

    Are there any major differences between the S3 and the RS3?
    If it was your money which would you buy and why?

    Arguably some of you are wondering why would I buy the S3 not the RS3, but I am looking at moving house soon so the extra money that I could save would go towards that.

    Thanks in advance,

    G
    EVO magazine tested the RS3 0-60 and found it was much closer to 4.0 than stated by Audi. They summised having a hatch cheaper than the R8 and faster to 60 was not good PR. Even still getting an S3 as fast would be a cheaper option as others have said.
    I like the idea if a mapped RS3 - mental!

    Had you considered a BMW 1M? Fits your budget and 3 doors.
    Audi S3 Sportback Black Edition | Open Sky | Comfort Pack | Interior Light Pack | Black paint

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandy View Post

    Had you considered a BMW 1M? Fits your budget and 3 doors.
    Wrong forum mate.
    VCDS USER

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    An RS3 would be on my list(if I could afford one) but like you prefer a 3dr.
    I could maybe grow to the DSG but not the sportback!
    Big budget you have tho, I'd be right into an M3 with that £!
    Now:
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    & more in between

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandy View Post
    Had you considered a BMW 1M? Fits your budget and 3 doors.
    ......

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    You can easily argue this one both ways.

    An RS3 costs around £40+k,and an S3 of equivalent age will cost around £28 as in your ads.

    For £14k(i.e. the difference between the two) you can have a S3 with around 440bhp,and to get the RS3 to that will set you back a further £3+k on top of it's cost,so the two are approximately evens on costs.

    Getting an RS3 into the 500bhp bracket costs a LOT of money currently,and development isn't proceeding very quickly right now,whereas the S3 parts are all there.

    It's going to come down to what you want,as it can be sliced both ways easily.

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    I think this will depend on how you value exclusivity and your view on diminishing returns. I'm also in a position where I could also afford an RS3 as replacement for my S3 Sportback.

    Both cars are pretty rare, much faster than most things on the road, offer supreme practicality (for their size) and are underpinnded by the Audi S/RS philosophy that puts everyday driving ahead of n'th-degree handling compromises.

    The RS3 is a bespoke product and clearly offers the superior package in terms of its mechanicals. It's the more exclusive car, although less easy to pick out over the S3 if you are not a keen Audi fan over - say - the S4 / RS4. It will also offer a warbling soundtrack and the knowledge that there is no other medium family car giving better performance. In short, it's a one-of-a-kind hyper hatchback.

    It's easy to forget, but the S3 is already a fairly exclusive product with a comprehensive proposition of combined luxury, 4WD, practicality and speed. Its main competitors offer a different or inferior combination of the above and, for this reason, it's a very strong package. It's also arguable that even a Stage 1 S3 (with 300bhp) gives you all the performance you'd ever need on the road, plus the opportunity to upgrade beyond this to the realms of 350-400bhp with modest outlay.

    Personally, I would now only go for an RS3 if the right spec'd car was available when I wanted to change the S3 - i.e. I wouldn't seek one out on purpose - because, for my needs, the law of dininishing returns has set in with my view of the RS3.
    bigyin and robbiemac like this.
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    Ben....I think that's very good advice,and some I'd follow if I was looking again now myself.I did look briefly at the RS3,but a few things put me off,not the least being the price,and what it would take to match my current car,but also the 5 doors,which I really didn't want.
    On the other side,it should hold it's value well,due to the relatively low numbers,and I think the cost issue becomes less of one,if you don't intend to do much in modifying or uprating the car,but if you do,the costs rack up quickly,as most of the owners who have done so,are finding the stock brakes and suspension aren't up to the job over 400ish bhp.

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    I think the talk of bhp/torque figures is massively misleading and does not tell the whole story in terms of performance, feel and driveability... Remember the rs3 has a k16 which is a variable geometry turbo - and therefore delivers its power in a completely different way from the k04.. Not to mention the extra cylinder!
    You could argue this one back and forth all day.. But ultimately it's you that has to live with your choice. Go and drive both, that is the only way to tell, forget the performance and see which car you actually prefer to be in too..
    I would also say, don't expect the rs3 to retain its value as well if you intend on modifying it.. It's a limited run car, if modding is your thing, get an s3 three door, or a ttrs.. Money sounds like a sticking point for you to some extent, so as others have said, moddin the RS is gonna be costly and experimental at this stage.
    Red is the colour..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandy View Post

    Had you considered a BMW 1M? Fits your budget and 3 doors.
    booooooooooooooo!
    Red is the colour..

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    45k - you can get a very tidy Nissan gtr35 and never look back!
    MartayMcFly likes this.

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    For me, no contest. RS3 all day long. If I had the money thats what I would be in now and not the S3. Alas................LOL
    Although I do have to say the Stage 1 S3 with DSG is bloody quick! Makes me grin more than my Subaru did its so damn smooth its unreal. Illegal o'clock speeds before ya know it.
    2011 61 plate S3 SB BE DSG - Shark Stage 1 + DSG

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    Quote Originally Posted by goRt- View Post
    45k - you can get a very tidy Nissan gtr35 and never look back!
    Yes....there's always that......big heavy car,but very capable,and very mod-friendly if you want more.

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    +1 - GT-R all day with that budget. Or stretch to a C63 AMG coupe? I'll never understand why people are buying RS3s new, and you could get 2 S3s (and mods) for that money. If you want to stay with Audi, RS5s are down to that level too now.
    Hunt is over

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    The rs5 is a big floppy boat though, mart...
    Red is the colour..

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    Gr
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    Hello,

    Firstly thank you to every who replied.
    I happened to have a day off today so I went to my local dealer and took them both for a drive. (Well after waiting for half an hour for them to be "Prepared"). I loved the RS3 and I also really liked the S3.
    The RS3 is nicer to drive, but that is what one would expect for the extra money.

    But I just really can't warm to the 5Door, it just doesn't look as nice as the 3door. The 5Door is what I am trying to get away from with my A4. And also, sadly, the wife reminded me that we are moving home soon so I cant justify the extra £10,000.

    I am considering getting it remaped by REVO. Has anyone had any personal experiences with them? Whether it be good or bad, I would like to know.
    Would any of you recommend a different company and if so why?

    Regarding having the S3 remaped , I know that it will void the warranty but I am not too worried about this due to the fact that my mate services & MOT's my car as he has his own company, but is there any thing I should consider before I do it?

    Also how much should I expect in terms of gains and how much would it cost?

    Cheers,
    Grant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr View Post
    Hello,Firstly thank you to every who replied. I happened to have a day off today so I went to my local dealer and took them both for a drive. (Well after waiting for half an hour for them to be "Prepared"). I loved the RS3 and I also really liked the S3. The RS3 is nicer to drive, but that is what one would expect for the extra money. But I just really can't warm to the 5Door, it just doesn't look as nice as the 3door. The 5Door is what I am trying to get away from with my A4. And also, sadly, the wife reminded me that we are moving home soon so I cant justify the extra £10,000.I am considering getting it remaped by REVO. Has anyone had any personal experiences with them? Whether it be good or bad, I would like to know. Would any of you recommend a different company and if so why?Regarding having the S3 remaped , I know that it will void the warranty but I am not too worried about this due to the fact that my mate services & MOT's my car as he has his own company, but is there any thing I should consider before I do it?Also how much should I expect in terms of gains and how much would it cost?Cheers,Grant
    Hi Grant,
    I've always gone with Revo,as they had the product I wanted,plus the upgrade and backup,to take me from 310bhp all the way to over 500bhp now,so I'm very happy with them.

    Now there is also Shark,APR,and a number of other companies who can remap your car,and all offer roughly the same options.

    310bhp for a first stage remap,followed by about 330-340bhp,with an exhaust and intake,and finally 360-380bhp with an uprated high pressure fuel pump.

    Anything over that requires a LOT of money and a big turbo.

    Costs:
    About £500 for 310bhp or Stg1

    About £1500 for the next

    Add another £600 or so for the HPFP and map.

    Stg3 is several thousands more.

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    Gr
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Hi Grant,
    I've always gone with Revo,as they had the product I wanted,plus the upgrade and backup,to take me from 310bhp all the way to over 500bhp now,so I'm very happy with them.

    Now there is also Shark,APR,and a number of other companies who can remap your car,and all offer roughly the same options.

    310bhp for a first stage remap,followed by about 330-340bhp,with an exhaust and intake,and finally 360-380bhp with an uprated high pressure fuel pump.

    Anything over that requires a LOT of money and a big turbo.

    Costs:
    About £500 for 310bhp or Stg1

    About £1500 for the next

    Add another £600 or so for the HPFP and map.

    Stg3 is several thousands more.
    Over 500bhp, Wow!
    I envy you sir, sadly I doubt the wife would let me do that!

    How long does it take for a REVO to do a Stage 1 remap?
    Not too long I presume, under 3 hours or?

    Also, slightly embarrassing to ask but I shall all the same, how much of a difference does it make to the 0 - 60?
    EDIT: Just reread a post which suggest that the S3 is capable of 0 - 60 in 5 seconds. Would you agree?

    How much does it make to acceleration after 60? A rather large one I guess.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr View Post
    Over 500bhp, Wow!I envy you sir, sadly I doubt the wife would let me do that!How long does it take for a REVO to do a Stage 1 remap?Not too long I presume, under 3 hours or?Also, slightly embarrassing to ask but I shall all the same, how much of a difference does it make to the 0 - 60? And then acceleration after that? A rather large one I guess.Cheers
    Grant.....I just don't tell her.
    Stg1 should take no more than a few hours,but that should include not only putting the map on,but also putting it on a rolling road,and getting it adjusted properly for your car.
    Stg1 does make a difference......noticeably more torque and drivability,and even better economy at times as you don't have to push the car as hard to get up hills and so on.
    It'll knock a bit off the 0-60,but it's the on-road performance that counts.

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    how about an s4? bit more toys bit more space and simple enough to map and change charger pully size to give 450bhp ish.
    a very understated engine as most seem to have way more bhp when dyno'd than audi claim.
    V8 baby... oh yeah

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    In S-Tronic form, an S3 will easily do the quoted 0-60 figures and it will only improve with a remap. You won't find many chances to make full use of that capability though.

    The RS3 will cut the times even more if 0-60 is your bag, although I'd suggest that's not why you'd go for one in preference.

    Either car will be amongst the very quickest you're likely to meet on the road in normal circumstances and the best thing is that you can use most of the performance in most weather conditions (thanks to quattro / Haldex).
    S3 Sportback S-Tronic (2010) - Brilliant Red
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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    Grant.....I just don't tell her.
    unless she's a member on this forum, eh Alex?
    Red is the colour..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben H View Post
    Either car will be amongst the very quickest you're likely to meet on the road in normal circumstances and the best thing is that you can use most of the performance in most weather conditions (thanks to quattro / Haldex).
    Adding the Race haldex controller really is worthwhile at Stg2+ and above,and sharpens the response as well as removing a bit of understeer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quattro81 View Post
    unless she's a member on this forum, eh Alex?
    God forbid.....she hates fast cars,and never even sat in that Escort I had a few years ago.

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    That was definitely a boy's car though, Al! Proper rally comfort inside... Love it!

    She sounds like my mrs .. I figure just buy them their own car, it's cheaper and less stressful.. Particularly if your car spends half it's time off the road being modded
    Red is the colour..

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    Quote Originally Posted by quattro81 View Post
    That was definitely a boy's car though, Al! Proper rally comfort inside... Love it!She sounds like my mrs .. I figure just buy them their own car, it's cheaper and less stressful.. Particularly if your car spends half it's time off the road being modded
    She absolutely hated it from the ground up.....the look,the noise,everything about it.......perfect car!
    I know the car is just about right when she begins to complain about the noise and speed,and this one is quicker than the Escort was in a straight line,but loses out on the bendy bits as it's about 200kgs heavier,and doesn't have the shockingly costly suspension that thing had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    She absolutely hated it from the ground up.....the look,the noise,everything about it.......perfect car!
    I know the car is just about right when she begins to complain about the noise and speed...
    if their knuckles ain't white, you're not doing it right! Applies to sooo many things, but especially the cars

    When my mrs says "it's a man thing" as I'm boring her to tears with car stuff I know I'm on the right track
    Red is the colour..

  36. #35
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    [QUOTE=MartayMcFly;1604298I'll never understand why people are buying RS3s new, [/QUOTE]



    PCP contracts can make new purchases very attractive when you do the maths, providing you can get a decent finance rate and GFV, you can have a nice motor without having a load of cash tied up in it.

    I looked at a new RS3 but struggled with a decent rate and the waiting time was crazy and not even guaranteed.... so that was that.
    Inm the end I settled for a S3 as Harrogate Sytner came up with a great deal on pre-built car.,

    Although I could have got into a C63/M3 etc. for only £100 pcm more, the running costs for these cars are from another galaxy.

    The ticket price is only a small portion of the cost of ownership unfortunately.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  37. #36
    quattro81's Avatar
    All the gear.. No idea

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    Or if you don't pay the vat, it's practically depreciation proof motoring!?
    Red is the colour..

  38. #37
    S3Alex's Avatar
    Rarely neutral

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    Although I could have got into a C63/M3 etc. for only £100 pcm more, the running costs for these cars are from another galaxy. The ticket price is only a small portion of the cost of ownership unfortunately.
    That's so true....actually buying a particular car can be possible,but then running it on top of that can be the killer.
    The daily costs of running this car aren't bad,but it's now reaching a point where extra bits do cost a fair bit,and that Escort I had was another good example,as it didn't cost a huge amount to buy,but running a car with ALS,rose jointed suspension and so on was horrendous,and single figure mileage didnt help.

  39. #38
    PaulAr's Avatar
    S3 (8P)

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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by quattro81 View Post
    Or if you don't pay the vat, it's practically depreciation proof motoring!?
    Indeed!

    HMRC make that difficult nowadays
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  40. #39
    PaulAr's Avatar
    S3 (8P)

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    Mar 2008
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    Tyne & Wear
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    4,043
    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    That's so true....actually buying a particular car can be possible,but then running it on top of that can be the killer.
    The daily costs of running this car aren't bad,but it's now reaching a point where extra bits do cost a fair bit,and that Escort I had was another good example,as it didn't cost a huge amount to buy,but running a car with ALS,rose jointed suspension and so on was horrendous,and single figure mileage didnt help.
    When I looked into M3 v S3 running costs I reckon the first year would have been 8-10K more costly to run the M3, tyres, run-in service, fuel, payments, insurance....

    Basically thats 12-14K out of your gross salary!!

    Ok, the M3 is a fantastic thing but the S3 is great bang for buck by comparison.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  41. #40
    Kelvin_S's Avatar
    1st Gear

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    Bristol
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    Neither, don't risk getting ur ass kicked by a modded S3. 680BHP you would be unstoppable

    2008 Nissan Gt-R 3.8 Black Edition 2dr Auto [Sat Nav] Coupe
    To do:
    MY11/ S3 Chrome mirrors /Springs / 20" Alloys / Wrap
    Dream plate: B055 KKS One day.



 

 
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