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  1. #1
    ~RS~'s Avatar
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    Pop goes the turbo!

    Well my turbo has died on me have been reading blown turbo threads all weekend and was relieved to hear today that the turbo and IC are the only effected parts. After reading some bad stuff about possibility of bits getting into engine on those threads it was a BIG relief indeed.

    Car is under warranty so they will be picking up 50% of the bill for the parts and full labour costs. I was wondering though, could I get away with getting a hybrid turbo in place of like for like swap?

    I have contacted CR turbos who will do one that is good for 220-240bhp for £625 inc vat. Then Turbo Dynamics want £1062, and Darkside Developments want £775. Why are the prices so varied for a turbo that produces the same bhp? Different internals used?

    I have a cat back exhaust so will need a sports cat, new map and IC(?) to get the 220-240bhp right? My car is fwd will it be drivable or is it just novelty having that power on a fwd?

    Guess I have to add myself to the list of 140bhp TDi owners with dead turbos now, lol!

    I should add the garage has quoted me £876 inc vat for a new turbo so well within price range of the cheaper 2 hybrids. I can get a new garret for a BKD 140bhp for £626 from turbo dynamics though...

    Opinions appreciated
    Last edited by ~RS~; 14th May 2012 at 21:23.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~RS~ View Post
    Well my turbo has died on me have been reading blown turbo threads all weekend and was relieved to hear today that the turbo and IC are the only effected parts. After reading some bad stuff about possibility of bits getting into engine on those threads it was a BIG relief indeed.

    Car is under warranty so they will be picking up 50% of the bill for the parts and full labour costs. I was wondering though, could I get away with getting a hybrid turbo in place of like for like swap?

    I have contacted CR turbos who will do one that is good for 220-240bhp for £625 inc vat. Then Turbo Dynamics want £1062, and Darkside Developments want £775. Why are the prices so varied for a turbo that produces the same bhp? Different internals used?

    I have a turbo back exhaust so will need a sports cat, new map and IC(?) to get the 220-240bhp right? My car is fwd will it be drivable or is it just novelty having that power on a fwd?

    Guess I have to add myself to the list of 140bhp TDi owners with dead turbos now, lol!

    I should add the garage has quoted me £876 inc vat for a new turbo so well within price range of the cheaper 2 hybrids. I can get a new garret for a BKD 140bhp for £626 from turbo dynamics though...

    Opinions appreciated
    your need a new clutch uprate your brakes and the car will be fun in the wet torqey as **** and make you smile a lot oh your go through front tyres quickly and lots of people will say no point in tuning a fwd drive tdi as you wont get that power down **** em do it
    S3 8L ming blue westys old car shed loads of mods

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    If you can get an OEM then i would do, try avoid the reconditioned ones because i had one fitted to a previous A3 and it wasn't long before i was getting limp mode again.
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    try aet turbos for a hybrid
    S3 8L ming blue westys old car shed loads of mods

  6. #5
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    You'll need to add in a clutch as well if you are mapping. anything over 170-180bhp and your going to start having clutch issues. also you'll want decent tyres to make use of the torque!

    220bhp from a fwd tdi would be good fun though
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~RS~ View Post
    I have a turbo back exhaust so will need a sports cat, new map and IC(?) to get the 220-240bhp right? My car is fwd will it be drivable or is it just novelty having that power on a fwd?
    You live in or around London, don't you mate?

    My car is a FWD TFSI and running about 240bhp but with less torque than a 240bhp diesel would have, I guess. For me my car feels on its limits with traction, mainly down to the type of driving that London driving is.... i.e. stop, start, accelerate from mini roundabout to the speedbump that is 10 meters away, accelerate to zebra crossing, stop then accelerate again then brake hard to avoid killing the crackhead walking down the middle of the road, etc etc.

    I reckon anymore torque going through my front wheels would ruin my "in town" driving, which is 95% of my driving.

    But if you're more of a motorway/dual carriageway man then its not a problem.

  8. #7
    ~RS~'s Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by flying oyster View Post
    your need a new clutch uprate your brakes and the car will be fun in the wet torqey as **** and make you smile a lot oh your go through front tyres quickly and lots of people will say no point in tuning a fwd drive tdi as you wont get that power down **** em do it
    Thanks for your thoughts mate, I'm assuming from your weak stance on whether to tune a fwd to that much bhp that yours is a fwd? Heehee..... Do you have the whiteline walk kit or anything else to help keep it controllable? I already have S3 front brakes and my car is a DSG so I think clutch should be with this??

    What is it like for stop start type journeys, is the torque too much for an everydayer?

    Quote Originally Posted by AidenUK View Post
    If you can get an OEM then i would do, try avoid the reconditioned ones because i had one fitted to a previous A3 and it wasn't long before i was getting limp mode again.
    Are you suggesting by passing the hybrid completely in favour of a standard un-hybridized turbo? Thanks for the heads up on the recon one's I'll avoid those for sure then.


    Quote Originally Posted by moag View Post
    You'll need to add in a clutch as well if you are mapping. anything over 170-180bhp and your going to start having clutch issues. also you'll want decent tyres to make use of the torque!

    220bhp from a fwd tdi would be good fun though
    That's what I was thinking (220bhp would be fun!) Gotta have a look at what they do to GTi's to help keep traction. I have a DSG from what I read clutches are fine for the kind of power without need to upgrade. I'll definitely look into some good rubber to help keep things in check. Currently running falkens + toyo's, Toyo's seem like they would do a job, falken are ok but not as good imo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ads View Post
    You live in or around London, don't you mate?

    My car is a FWD TFSI and running about 240bhp but with less torque than a 240bhp diesel would have, I guess. For me my car feels on its limits with traction, mainly down to the type of driving that London driving is.... i.e. stop, start, accelerate from mini roundabout to the speedbump that is 10 meters away, accelerate to zebra crossing, stop then accelerate again then brake hard to avoid killing the crackhead walking down the middle of the road, etc etc.

    I reckon anymore torque going through my front wheels would ruin my "in town" driving, which is 95% of my driving.

    But if you're more of a motorway/dual carriageway man then its not a problem.
    Hi Ads,

    thanks for your insight there mate... I am indeed in London and know the type of dodge the crackhead driving you describe so vividly in your postlmfao!! You raise a very good point mate, I know that stage1 remaps for TDi's produce circa 185bhp + 295lb/ft torque and stage1 remaps on the TFSi produce circa 240bhp and 275lb/ft torque. I reckon stage2 with a hybrid on the TDi will produce 330lb/ft torque or thereabouts.

    Do you have any additional mods to help keep traction on your car?

  9. #8
    Ads
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~RS~ View Post
    Hi Ads,

    thanks for your insight there mate... I am indeed in London and know the type of dodge the crackhead driving you describe so vividly in your postlmfao!! You raise a very good point mate, I know that stage1 remaps for TDi's produce circa 185bhp + 295lb/ft torque and stage1 remaps on the TFSi produce circa 240bhp and 275lb/ft torque. I reckon stage2 with a hybrid on the TDi will produce 330lb/ft torque or thereabouts.

    Do you have any additional mods to help keep traction on your car?
    No additional mods to improve traction yet. Thinking about some better mounts etc but to be honest my car is really only on its traction limits when I really push on or if going at it 75% in the wet.
    Gonna try some better tyres first at my next change and see how that affects things. At the moment i'm on falkens, and whilst they're good, I think their limit is about 200bhp because ever since my remap they are showing their weakness.

  10. #9
    ~RS~'s Avatar
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    I have falkens and toyo's on at the minute I agree with you about the falkens, what tyres are you thinking about?

    Had a little update from the garage, warranty company have asked them to remove the turbo and take a picture of it, then forward this onto them... They told me they have dealt with the garage my car is at many times so it sounded like an odd request to me. Any of you guys have your turbo's replaced under aftermarket warranty?

  11. #10
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    Bad times fella, You could run more power which would be great but it really depends on how the torque band is. Being a diesel its alot more narrower than a petrol so you may suffer from wheel hop.

    I have the gearbox and engine mount insert which have helped a lot but the wheel hop from the increased torque is still present. I am on poor quality tyres which need replacing soon.

    Ads does have a valid point as both of us had our cars mapped at the same time, his being a DSG i find was alot more smoother with putting the power down. My manual does torque steer a fair bit.
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  12. #11
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    aud you do !

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    i have a 170 fwd tdi remapped to around 220bhp and have still got original clutch , spins for fun in the wet , but lush in the dry . also have falkens on and agree with ads .

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    Just to clear up my confusion... if you're under warranty, why do you have to pay 50% of the parts?

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    Farhan, thanks for your insight mate, mine being a DSG may help with the wheel hop and torque steer then. I've seen the mounts listed in your sig, excuse my ignorance here but how do these help to stop wheel hop.

    Cheers for the post Badgey, have you done any other traction related mods? Falkens are good for show but not so great in the wet by most accounts.

    The Governor, the 50% is because my car is over 100k.

  15. #14
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    rs im in london if ya want a spin give us a shout it will give you some idea il be at ace at the end of the month or cov meet at burger king colliers wood on the 27th the offers there and didnt see you had dsg your clutch should be fine
    S3 8L ming blue westys old car shed loads of mods

  16. #15
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    Hi flyin oyster mate, that sounds like a plan! Thanks for the offer is much appreciated Haven't got down to any ace cafe meets yet but my mate diggz has been telling me it's a good night.

    I think the car will be sorted way before that though, garage is taking turbo off so they can send pictures to the warranty company tomorrow and they say if they get the OK tomorrow car will be done by weekend max. He told me I could fit whatever turbo I wanted btw as it's less than the OEM one brand new I may well take this opportunity to stick a hybrid on. Was actually thinking of selling up for a S3 SB but I'm tempted to just stick with this one until the new SB pops up or I get bored of it lol.... Decisions, decisions.....

  17. #16
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    your gonna have to a map to run a hybrid otherwise its gonna run rough but if your thinking of selling up go for a recon and grab your s3 having a hybrid will take pounds out your pocket but wont add any on the resale of your car imo
    S3 8L ming blue westys old car shed loads of mods

  18. #17
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    Cheers flying oyster, I think I may grab that recon lol... The warranty numpties, I meant company have said that they will pay for the turbo, and 3.5hrs labour. Garage say 7 hr job, IC replacement needed and pipework.... Am not happy at all about that! Glad they didn't try avoid paying out at all but very miffed they haven't covered consequential damaged by turbo failing or labour charge in full. Ah well, looks like it's time for a new car!
    Last edited by ~RS~; 16th May 2012 at 10:58.

  19. #18
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    Excuse my double posting but here's what the turbo looked like!

    Last edited by ~RS~; 16th May 2012 at 11:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by itwasntme187 View Post
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  22. #21
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    eeeew nasty good luck with what you decide
    S3 8L ming blue westys old car shed loads of mods

  23. #22
    ~RS~'s Avatar
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    Yup pretty shagged isn't it!!

    Anybody know anything about this type of recon turbo?

    AUDI A3 2.0 TDI DIESEL GARRETTS RECONDITIONED TURBO, 12 MONTHS WARRANTY | eBay

    They've listed the process they use to rebuild and state no cheap far east parts used in the recon, they're about £100 cheaper than turbo dynamics.

    Also, the garage say that they can flush intercooler, but if all bits are not removed could shag turbo over again.... Is this correct? I would've thought they could've got all the bits out surely??

    I'm selling the car btw, probably trade in on new one (mods coming off)

  24. #23
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    i got my hybrid from turbo technics ready to go on at the weekend only cost £750 though , and i got £90 back when they received my blown unit . how come they quoted you £1062 ?

  25. #24
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    Conventional wisdom is that 250bhp is about the limit for FWD cars depending on chassis, suspension and tyres - and the Alpha Romeo engineering department once said the same/similar thing. I believe it was for a petrol, though, so the extra torque of a diesel may mean you hit the useful limit lower.
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  26. #25
    ~RS~'s Avatar
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    i got my hybrid from turbo technics ready to go on at the weekend only cost £750 though , and i got £90 back when they received my blown unit . how come they quoted you £1062 ?
    I took the price from their website, thanks for letting me know though. Let us know how big your grin is when you've got it fitted! :D

    Conventional wisdom is that 250bhp is about the limit for FWD cars depending on chassis, suspension and tyres - and the Alpha Romeo engineering department once said the same/similar thing. I believe it was for a petrol, though, so the extra torque of a diesel may mean you hit the useful limit lower.
    Cheers for that post seems like this is the consensus that I've read on a couple TDi tuning forums. 260hp and associated torque on the diesel means you will need quattro or many suspension mods + LSD like the Focus RS has.

    Edit>> Shady Character the turbo for £1062 was from 'Turbo Dynamics' not Turbo Technics, hence the price difference.
    Last edited by ~RS~; 17th May 2012 at 12:59.

  27. #26
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    Well after some 'toing and froing' the warranty co have added a little good will gesture to the labour time.

    I've gone ahead and pulled the trigger on a stage 2 hybrid turbo.

    My car already has S3 front brakes, lowered 35mm on kw springs and FK chocolate shocks :P Also has a custom catback that I'll be getting a down pipe fitted to after hybrid goes on.

    From what I've read all I will need is to map it after this right?

    Any recommendations for mappers? I already have a Viezu Vswitch (like the Shark Performances STS box) that I can get a generic stage2 map for £100 but would prefer it to be custom mapped as I read that a lot better... Pity Viezu are in Bromsgrove!

    Any ideas? Also have I missed anything off the list apart from go faster stripes

    Oh yes... I forgot.... Do I need to get the DSG box mapped as well?
    Last edited by ~RS~; 17th May 2012 at 23:58.

  28. #27
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    bump

  29. #28
    bagey's Avatar
    aud you do !

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    if you want to take it over 200bhp , you will have to get dpf removed mate

  30. #29
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    Mine is a 140hp I don't think it has a DPF iirc, from what I read the cat must be removed.

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~RS~ View Post
    Mine is a 140hp I don't think it has a DPF iirc, from what I read the cat must be removed.
    Consider:

    76mm exhaust line
    Oil cooler
    uprated clutch/flywheel

    This if you want reliability of turbo/engine.

    Cheers.

  32. #31
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    My car is a DSG do you think the clutch/flywheel still need upgrading? From what I read and tuners I spoke to have said the DSG and stock DMF are strong enough.

    I think my exhaust is 76mm I gotta double check...

    What is the oil cooler, what does it do and where are they bought from?

    Actually..... The exhaust is 63mm

  33. #32
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    Hi,

    DSG is known to have it's limits regarding torque...
    Oilcooler i recomend a complete kit like this:

    eBay: Neue und gebrauchte Elektronikartikel, Autos, Kleidung, Sammlerst�cke, Sportartikel und mehr � alles zu g�nstigen Preisen

    It will cool your engine oil to insure oil keeps it's lub capability even at high acceleration.
    I think the 63mm exhaust is good if you don't want to go over 240hp.
    I'd recommend taking out kat and any mufflers it has just a straight pipe.

    Cheers.

  34. #33
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    The cat will be removed and replaced with a THS downpipe or custom one. I'll have a look into the oil cooler install. I think that might be added at a later date.

    The tuners I've spoke to were saying that with the mods I listed (Turbo back exhaust, cat removed, stage2 hybrid turbo and remap) I should see 210-220hp.
    The exhaust has the middle box removed and a free flowing back box.

    How's your build coming along mate? What bhp and torque are you currently at and what do you have planned for it

  35. #34
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    Hi,

    Those are good numbers
    But tell me what kind of hybrid are they talking? Compressor sizes, etc?
    AFAIK i'd go for a good stock uprated turbo.
    My choices:

    GTB2056VK (Mercedes)
    GTB2056VZK(new turbo from 3.0tdi lower power versions)
    GTB2260VK (doesn't need comments )
    GTB2260VZK (newer 3.0 tdi higher power versions)
    Or for some big money the GTB2260VKLR (BB turbo the future.)

    The last 3 options require much more adaptations but higher power gains (300 ish hp)
    Regarding my build one of the last 3 is already at a shelve at my garage

    Cheers

  36. #35
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    Tbh I'm not as well versed as I should be taking the plunge into tuning the TDi.... Was kind of a 'forced hand' decision as the old turbo blew leaving me with a dilemma. Fit new turbo sell car and start again with new mods or get a hybrid turbo, keep for a while longer and have some fun :D

    The hybrid is based on a GT1749VA (the stock A3 2.0TDi turbo) with more robust internals. I believe this is quite a common hybrid turbo over here.

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    Any updates on this? My turbo is making some very odd noises so considering either a recon unit or something similar to what you are doing.
    I will need to upgrade my brakes though hmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by audigex View Post
    Conventional wisdom is that 250bhp is about the limit for FWD cars depending on chassis, suspension and tyres - and the Alpha Romeo engineering department once said the same/similar thing. I believe it was for a petrol, though, so the extra torque of a diesel may mean you hit the useful limit lower.
    250bhp? lol 400+ fwd with no tc/esp is good fun
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  39. #38
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    Turbo has been fitted not been mapped for it yet nor had the decat done, looking forward to sorting these over the weekend, but mapping may have to wait till Friday to be bob on as been told it's not a one day afair getting the maps spot on for the hybrid and other work done. Tweaking will be required so I expect all to be sorted by then all going well.

    I can tell you the hybrid has much more grunt than the previous turbo did. With the generic stage1 map running on it you get a nice bit of power! Can't wait till it's all done

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    How much did it cost for the turbo and fitting? if you don't mind me asking really tempted with this! My car has some sort of map on it at the moment but don't really know much about that as the previous owner got it done.

 

 

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