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Thread: Changing HPFP / cam follower on S3 8P

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    warren_S3's Avatar
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    Post Changing HPFP / cam follower on S3 8P

    Thought I'd post this on here as someone had asked me about it this week. Something I did ages ago and then forgot to post up.

    Might be useful if you need to replace your cam lobe or the complete fuel pump on your s3-8P.

    The reason I did this change was that my KMD internals had decided to wear the internals of the OEM HPFP unit, so I had to switch the whole pump for a new one. This guide does not show how to swich over to new uprated internals, just the removal and refit of a pump unit.


    1) Initial symptoms
    : Is my cam or fuel pump unit wearing out?

    • Oil stank of petrol
    • Car smelt of petrol when stood outside (worse than normal despite running a catch can)
    • Idle very unstable (constantly hunting and blipping)
    • Drop off of power at high rpm under heavy load
    • Noticeable high frequency ticking sound at very high RPM
    Further investigation noted:

    • Cam lobe wear marks / scoring around the external barrel edge of the cam - see pic below (not the usual wear signs at the tip where it comes into contact with cams).



    2) Should this bother you?
    If you have early generation fuel pump internals from any of the known manufacturers who supply internals (designs and coating have changed in the last year or so), then I'd be preventative maintenance checking your cam follower at least at each service interval once you go beyond 20,000 miles with HPFP upgrade internals fitted.

    Supposedly the early pump internals have in some cases worn the internals of the pump housings. Whether this is down to the HPFP internal coatings being too hard for the pump, or design flaws of early units I do not know.

    It's a catch 22 really, if you find yourself facing these issues and realise like I did that it's not just cold morning starts or catch can fumes, get your cam follower checked immediately. As it's hard to substantiate the extent of long to mid damage it could cause, and the cost if any damage may be very expensive to remedy. Be viligent and exercise caution when undertaking the checks as fuel is not just flammable!

    3) What tools do I need?
    > Latex gloves
    > Bradawl (or something pointy lie small electrical screwdriver to bleed Schrader pressure valve)
    > Torx bits (can't remember whether it was 20/25/30 so have a selection on hand)
    > Pin nose pliers for constant tension spring clip removal
    > Spanner (13mm / 17mm)
    > Flat blade screwdriver> A capture device for fuel when depressurising schrader valve (I used microfibre cloth , but you can use a glass pot or something else that can handle fuel).


    4) What parts do I need?

    > Have some spare jubilee clips on hand for small rubber hoses (10-15mm)
    > New fuel pump if required (Part # W06F 127 025 K) @ £177.77
    > New camshaft follower lobe (Part no. 06D 109 309C) @ £25.00'ish
    > New HPFP uprated internals (KMD / Autotech, but choose the latest - as opposed to older versions as they may not be revised version esp. second hand) - speak to your tuner (approx £350)
    > Fresh oil & moly lube - moly lube the cam follower external before refitting to help bed in, then conduct a full oil change if you find fuel ingress into sump oil
    > OEM oil filter and sump bung washer

    5) How hard was it to do?

    Not that hard (I'm no mechanical Einstein), just problems with limited access to space for tools as there is plenty of pipework in vicinty (injector rails / fuel pump pipework / inlet manifold etc.).

    I don't need to tell you that you don't need to be changing the pump with a fag in your gob because you're all too bright for that, but for those that aren't it's been said.

    A logical plan for laying out parts is useful as for any job. I just used some clumsy digits and a Halfords Professional Tool Box and I'm pleased to say the car still works after the change of pump.

    Here are some photos of the journey through doing the job:

    1) The bloody Hitachi fuel pump in question


    2) Take care disconnecting the clips, if they seem stuck gently prise the clip with a large flatblade screwdriver


    3) This connector is a pain - its clip was fitted facing into the engine so I couldn't get to it - if it is, just undo the brass nut slightly to expose it


    4) One of those clips that wouldn't budge!



    5) Next you need to bleed the fuel system with a bradawl, or an electical screwdriver. Unscrew the plastic schrader cap to reveal the bleed valve


    6) Cap off, ready to bleed


    7) get some cloths of a collector and bleed the vale. Fuel will come out as the pressure releases, so best to wear latex gloves / goggles as a precaution for this step - prod in the valve until fuel flow diminishes


    8) Undo the rest of the ports to the pump where connectors are attached, starting at the front. You need to remove the brass connector in the photo to get clear access to the rear fuel line


    9) You now have access to the rear pipe


    10) Now undo the torq screws (can't remember if there are 3 or 4 of these)


    11) Photo kindly provided by Lewis 538 as I forgot to photograph cam follower sat within the engine block!



    Cam follower removed and all cleaned up!



    12) Showing some signs of marking at 53,000 miles, but nothing hugely worse than I'd expect


    13) Pic of the fuel pump unit / side on



    14) Wear on the inner face of the cam follower



    15) Now to remove the final parts of the pump


    16) I chose to remove thin hose from inlet manifold to DV to give better access to the rubber hose at the bottom of the fuel pump


    17) Use pin nosed pliers to get the constant tension hose clip away from the connection point on the hose, then use a flat blade screwdriver to work the hose off the metal connector as its pretty tight


    18) Once this rubber hose if off, you can finally take off the fuel pump!


    19) View of the tip of the old KMD internals within the old fuel pump


    20) Look at your old fuel pump, and you will so a few of the old brass banjo ports will need to be carried over with the old hoses. Identify and remove / refit


    21) Replace any jubilee clips you may have trounced in the process of removal (I killed one of the VW fastened clips so had to use the one at the bottom of the photo which I was lucky enough to have floating about in a drawer


    22) Cleaned up the brass and refitted


    23) To refit, follow the guide in reverse, and voila, if you don't drop anything into the engine apertures it may even work!


    24) One newly fitted pump. Shift all the tools and tat out of your bay, ensure you've refitted the schrader cap, and that you don't have any serious puddles of fuel anywhere. Once confirmed, go and start the car up and come back round the front of the bay to ensure you have no leaks. May be worth after a couple of journeys just returning to the connectors and checking they don't need a slight tighten once they heated and cooled.


    25) Pic of a new shiny cam follower


    5) Net result after changing the fuel pump:


    • idle back to normal
    • fuel smell stopped
    • less soot on back of car????
    • performance improved across the range (tested up to 5k rpm as I'm not running uprated HPFP internals at present with Revo Stg2+!)
    • very high frequency clicking noise has stopped at high RPM

    ENSURE you change the oil after doing this job as the fuel that's already in your oil will be doing damage. I did an oil change, then used some Forte oil treatment to supplement and limit any further additional wear.

    Any questions fire away.

    DISCLAIMER / Ass covering statement: These notes are purely a basic guide to show the extent of the work involved in doing a DIY fuel pump / cam follower change, and do not constitute VAG approved approach. I accept NO liability if you to this and feck it up!
    Last edited by warren_S3; 17th November 2011 at 14:25.
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    nice... great write up!
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    Thought I'd better stick it in here as I'd forgotten to!

    It's now even enhanced with a cam follower shot (in the engine), so thanks to Lewis538 for that!
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    Thanks Warren. Funny you posted this today as only this morning i was wondering about my cam follower. Its been 8,000 since i changed it. Think im going to get the car booked in but im a bit unsure what to do. The car is due an Oil service in 1600 miles. Cars at 36,000miles. I wanted to get the oil change done now to be honest but am unsure whether to book it into Audi or book it into an independant and have the oil/cam follower done together at a far lesser cost. The cars runs out of warranty in Feb so wasnt sure whether not going through Audi would affect anything?? what do you reckon?

    And by the way i seem to be suffering some of the symptoms you mention. The car smells a bit rich from outside, not had a chance to smell the oil but its idling a little irratic sometimes too. Hopefully some fresh oil and new cam follower will do the trick. shes also got to go in for Haldex oil change soon!
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    The oil will naturally get some fuel in it over time, I think it's a case that the concentration shouldnt be allowed to get to high, and worn seals on HPFP upgrades need to be looked at periodically as do the cam followers. I tended to find with the catch can I would get a bit more smell than someone running an OEM PCV, but its worth getting a good independent to do these checks for you as Audi won't have a clue, and I doubt unless a follower fails that they would ver be checked as part of the preventative maintenance works.

    I always maintain prevention is better and cheaper than cure, and the best place to get this done unfortunately is as supplemental work outside of the dealer servicing route!
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    Quote Originally Posted by warren_cox View Post
    The oil will naturally get some fuel in it over time, I think it's a case that the concentration shouldnt be allowed to get to high, and worn seals on HPFP upgrades need to be looked at periodically as do the cam followers. I tended to find with the catch can I would get a bit more smell than someone running an OEM PCV, but its worth getting a good independent to do these checks for you as Audi won't have a clue, and I doubt unless a follower fails that they would ver be checked as part of the preventative maintenance works.

    I always maintain prevention is better and cheaper than cure, and the best place to get this done unfortunately is as supplemental work outside of the dealer servicing route!
    totally agree...

    Thanks again, very good write up too!
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    Warren many thanks for that write up!!!
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    Hi all

    Is there supposed to be a washer which sits in the fuel pump, held in by the brass fitting with the yellow cap on in the photo below? If there is, does any one have one or know where to get one???
    Quote Originally Posted by warren_cox View Post
    r


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    warren_S3's Avatar
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    not off the top of my head. I think Audi only sell the pump as a complete unit, not as bits.

    Didn't take that part off on mine, but when I get back to UK I'll peel my old unit apart to see if one is in there and if so what size it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warren_cox View Post
    not off the top of my head. I think Audi only sell the pump as a complete unit, not as bits.

    Didn't take that part off on mine, but when I get back to UK I'll peel my old unit apart to see if one is in there and if so what size it is.
    Thanks Warren, your an absolute star

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    Thanks for posting the thread Warren, its well documented with pics and step by step information. That will be real useful for anyone who is
    not very mechanically minded and give them the confidence of doing the job for themselves. A very interesting read.

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    How much would a garage or audi charge to change the cam follower?

    Chris
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    Dunno, we've heard wild variations of labour claims on here, so it's tough to say.

    To change follower should be no more than 1/2 hour labour in my books, and full pump change about an hour.

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    Would you recommend changing both as my car is very early do you think i should change the fuel pump and the cam follower?

    Chris
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    Quote Originally Posted by loudchris53 View Post
    Would you recommend changing both as my car is very early do you think i should change the fuel pump and the cam follower?

    Chris
    If you are running standard pump internals you only need change the follower, it's the early generation uprated internals that seemed to be wearing the pump internals.

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    Thanks for the help!

    Chris
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    anyone capable of changing a cam follower on a S3 local to me??

    Also, Warren my good friend. My car had a service (oil change) 500 miles ago. Will it need another after fitting the cam follower?? i bloody hope not!
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3RYE View Post
    anyone capable of changing a cam follower on a S3 local to me??

    Also, Warren my good friend. My car had a service (oil change) 500 miles ago. Will it need another after fitting the cam follower?? i bloody hope not!
    No mate, you're fine, no additional oil change required. You're on the wrong side of London for me to be able to offer a helping hand, I'm 50 miles+ the other side!
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    Dangerously tempted to have a go at swapping my internals out myself now... probably not a great idea, but now I have this to follow I have a new-found confidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartayMcFly View Post
    Dangerously tempted to have a go at swapping my internals out myself now... probably not a great idea, but now I have this to follow I have a new-found confidence.
    Cleanliness is the key, and ensure you get the right lube for bedding the moving parts of the pump in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spin140 View Post
    Man lube ?
    Lube... bedding... pump...

    Think I'll leave it to someone else I can blame if it all goes pop later on.
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    Its an easy 45 min job, do it and learn how your car works
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartayMcFly View Post
    Lube... bedding... pump...

    Think I'll leave it to someone else I can blame if it all goes pop later on.
    I was quoted 3-4 hours labour from Motorwerks @ £30 + VAT P/H, Martin, which I thought was a bit extortionate TBH. I'd like to think for that much time being spent on it they'd be meticulous at cleaning and lubing everything *cough*. xx
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    Quote Originally Posted by warren_S3 View Post
    Cleanliness is the key, and ensure you get the right lube for bedding the moving parts of the pump in.
    Which is? Something to maybe look at on Sunday.
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    I wanted to add a caveat to this guide from my own troubles with this:

    - It was easier to remove the 15amp fuel fuse and let the car run for around 10 seconds, then switch off. The fuel pressure dropped significantly so releasing pressure from the shrader valve was easy as hardly much came out
    - Be prepared to clear any DTC's with VCDS. If you remove the sensors from the HPFP, then remove the blue fuse, you will register a fault code or two.
    - Have spare seals, washers, nuts at the ready... I have been inspecting my HPFP cam every 20k miles and changing it every 40k miles or so. This weekend, the nut pratically disintegrated and the metal was crumbling away. Not a problem, new nut on... LEAK! Yikes.. tightened said nut to fuel rail and still leaking... replaced the seal and problem solved. You might lose this or miss this part because it is a small black o-ring seal. Moral of the story, good practice to replace the seal every now and then and monitor for leaks.
    - Don't over tighten either, not sure what metal is user for these brass nuts.. but it is rubbish, slightest bit of over-tightening and you will score the nut badly and this is easy to do.
    - Loosen the torx bolts one at a time but not all the way. The HPFP is spring loaded and just my own thoughts on this but loosening ALL the bolts a little bit slowly and equally first would keep equal pressure on the spring in the removal process. Will leave this one for the owners to decide.
    - Putting oil on the cam follower is optional. I used high tension grease - castrol LM tub knocking about in the shed.

    Otherwise, thank you for this guide as I went based on this the first time I changed the cam follower.

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    HI

    about the cam follower has this been upgraded to the alloy ones for the 2009 8P or above or are the all the same?

    Thanks

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    AFAIK the cam followers are the same but you can buy armoloy ones... see this thread for details: S3 Cam Follower

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    Am going to have a go changing it myself ....just a quick question. I just want to change the cam follower, if i do this would there be any error on the dash board after the job done? Do i really have to change the engine oil and filter once its completed? And what lubricant shall i use on the cam follower before i put it back in?

    Please someone i really want to do this next monday

    Thanks in advance

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    Hi guys I've currently got a couple of symptoms warren mentioned, i.e oil smells of petrol and can also smell petrol outside the car when started, would a worn cam follower cause these issues? or is it the fuel pump itself causing the issues?.
    I'm running a standard fuel pump by the way.

  32. #31
    Turbo jay's Avatar
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    Bump

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    coreythorny's Avatar
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    Just found this video which may be of use to people DIY: 2.0T FSI Cam Follower Replacement on Vimeo

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    Also can someone confirm or deny if this is the correct one for a 8P S3 preface lift?
    Genuine VW Audi Skoda FSI TFSI High Pressure Fuel Pump Cam Follower 06D109309C | eBay

  35. #34
    Turbo jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coreythorny View Post
    Also can someone confirm or deny if this is the correct one for a 8P S3 preface lift?
    Genuine VW Audi Skoda FSI TFSI High Pressure Fuel Pump Cam Follower 06D109309C | eBay
    yea that's the correct one mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo jay View Post
    yea that's the correct one mate.
    Ordered. Cheers.

    Hopefully my oil isn't too bad, it whiffs a bit of petrol but ive heard a bit is normal, it's when it pen and inks its bad?

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    Mine smells a bit also mate I ordered my follower 2day as well, so hopefully that sorts the issue otherwise looks like ill have too change the Hpfp also.

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    Absolutely superb post! Guides/informative posts like this are what make good forums such an asset to the community.

    I found the follower/HPFP fault whilst researching faults on the S3. I have none of the running faults as described in Warren's OP - car runs abslutely faultlessly - although I did once notice a slight and brief smell of fuel INSIDE the car after a 300 mile drive, but this was slight, quickly went and has not returned. Car is on 60k (S3), '57 plate. After reading this I'm now paranoid. Is this something I should address ASAP? I am assuming that as I run a stock car I could just replace the follower as an intital measure, or should I do the pump too (non-uprated OEM should be fine I guess)? Pretty handy with tools and I'm an engineer, so will be DIYing.

    Thanks for the advice (new to this whole turbo/Audi lark, but loving the S3 so far)!!!

    Regards, Keith
    warren_S3 likes this.

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    Just bought a s3 and im wanting to change this for piece of mind, found this
    http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/vie...492&cmd=VIDESC
    can anybody tell me if this is the same as a genuine Audi one or should I just get it from Audi?

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    Warren, this is an excellent write up.
    Just used it to change mine, I also watched the video which helped reassure me just how simple it was.
    I only disconnected the top electrical plug as I could leave the other in situ to swap just the follower. That avoided having to try and disconnect the tricky one facing the engine.
    I reckon the hardest part of the whole process by far, is actually removing the engine cover.

    Pics of new and old attached.
    3yr old car with 50k miles. Didn't look bad at all to be honest.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    That is in good nick. Mine looked worse than that at 20k!
    Audi S3 Panther Black [2011] Build Thread
    Mods: Revo Stg2, Blueflame TBE, Eibach Pro springs, R8 oil cap

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    Planned Mods: Revo Stg1+ with DSG map, Revo CAI, custom exhaust, H&R Trax spacers, EM Tuning LED interior lights, R8 oil cap, Porsche coolant & brake fluid cap

 

 
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