DSG Owners - torque limit / durabillity

Well guys,

Found this over on Audiworld. Urm wonder why they're testing a single turbo 3.2 for VW. Answers on a post card please /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ATTENTION ALL 3.2 OWNERS!!!! HPA turbo kit for DSG: ***it's possible*** =)
User account number (aid): 58072
Posted by Marc3.2TT on 2005-03-17 08:22:08
Guys,

In follow up to this thread concerning power upgrades for the 3.2 TT with DSG, I had sent an email to Marcel Horn at HPA motorsport to enquire about the possibility of a turbo kit for the DSG.

Well, the answer is YES!!!

And to let you enjoy his answers as I did, here's a copy of the email I sent him with his responses in-line:


Hi Marcel,

I've been informed by Steve Cherry that your company has been working on a 400-HP turbo kit for the 3.2 engine in the TT with DSG transmission.

I'm very interested in the kit, as I own a 3.2 TT myself, and have a few questions:

1. Is the DSG transmission in the TT 3.2 rated at 350 or 450 Nm? The specs mention that it's the "DQ-350" (based on the MQ-350), which is rated at only 350 Nm (258 lb-ft). However I've heard a rumor that it might actually be the "DQ-450", which is rated at 450 Nm (332 lb-ft).
The DSG is "officially" rated at 350Nm, but this is the same "official " rating that our 6 speed manual boxes have.

2. Is this "rating" only enforced by the transmission's ECU (aka TCM), so that it does not allow the input shaft of presenting more torque than the rated limit (be it 350 or 450 Nm)?
This Rating is enforced by the ECM and TCM as a conservative limiter to offer a guaranteed LONG life scenario for the tranny.

3. Have you managed to re-program the TCM in order to remove the software limit on torque?
Yes.

4. What is the "weakest link" of the DSG, clutches/gears/etc?
The only limiting factor we officially have with the DSG is that we can not currently lengthen the gears to offer a higher TOP SPEED.

5. Have you tested the physical torque limits of the DSG (and if so, over an extended period of time?) to determine how much actual torque the clutches or weakest link can take?
AT VW's official request, we have built the factory a few single turbo equipped DSG Golf's. VW themselves have used our kits to stress test their DSG. Over 6000miles on the Euro proving grounds have been logged at FULL THROTTLE, 5500RPM launches with no glimmer of difficulties. These cars are FT400smic trim.

6. Finally, if you managed to re-program the TCM, have you found where the Launch Control code resides? As you must know, the LC programming was removed for US-based TT's and I'm trying to find a way to re-enable it.
We have ENABLED and manipulated the Launch control. You can now launch at 5500RPM in all our DSG cars.

Thanks in advance for all your answers!

Marc, this DSG set-up is so impressive and such an engineering marvel, that we will work this summer to convert our shop cars to DSG, even for the Twin turbo's. With one clutch handling one set of gears and the second clutch the other, we are able to manipulate the oil pressure to generate the grip force required to launch the highest horse power cars. We have a DSG specific kit, with software on the shelf ready for some LUCKY owner. Once installed, a 360 Modena doesn't stand a snow balls chance in Hell!!!!

I must be careful in reference of divulging the exact degree of testing that we have co-operatively performed with VW on the DSG, but hope to convey the sheer excitement I feel towards this set-up. The first run in the car and you will never think standard again!



Now I don't know about you guys, but after reading this email I was just ecstatic...
I can't wait for the kit to come out!!

-Marc

I was thinking more along the lines of leaving the ECU as is and letting it control it at 350 max. Surely this would just flatern off the torque curve while still getting your 190 ponies or so at 4000rpm. That would make one long flat torque curve and no DSG problems. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

VW testing for the VAG groups S3 / RS3 ?.

Same toque limit / design just different gear ratio's I guess.

Eeef,

That was my point for this post. That infact the 350nm limit seems to be an artificial limit applied by the TCM control unit within the gearbox. The actual limit being much higher. My only question now is, if we 'chip' it to 400nm will the TCM flatten the torque curve ( cut it off at 350 ) or will it confuse it and shut the box down !.

Either that or well have to 'chip' the TCM as well.

Did they say how many miles they had done ?.

[ QUOTE ]
I know this will go down like a lead balloon here but why does everyone love DSG soooooooo much? On paper the 0-60 is 0.1 second of a difference and there seems to be problems with the box, so i have seen on the forum. O, and wheres the skill in using a automatic box? Im my eyes it disconnects you from the car, wheres the control? What does everyone think??? but at the end of the day, if you buying a 3.2 and thinking of putting a turbo in it.... obviously it will fly....wheres the fun in an AUTO????

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, on paper it's slower, and on a track because of the extra weight it may be slower. But to an 'average' diver, which most of us are, and on the road, I can guarantee that it is faster than the manual. Check out the threads regarding traction. The ease at late breaking into tight bends, allowing you to get the nose in better would be a lot harder in the manual. The time when your stuck in a high gear when you want to pull out when a gap appears on a road your 'not' familiar with. Oh and when your trawling through rush hour traffic and 'YOUR' left foot is knack***d from constant clucth use, mine aint.

Oh and I have two hands on the steering wheel at all times now, which on public roads must be safer.