Rear wheel drive Audis?

And who would buy a RWD Audi? Why not go for the BMW instead, it's not going to move forward in winter anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

- Yak

I dont know why you would want RWD audis? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif
I think quattro is, as a principle, a better alternative. Making it variable quattro (with the haldex) is also even better. Give them some time to fix/adjust the way the haldex response (as we've seen the ESP and ABS evolve) and it's simply the best.
Am not sure but aren't porsche C4 same setup as audi but other way around ie RWD with a clutch that engage the front wheels when the rear slips?
Audi need to concentrate more on sorting out, the position of engine, the weight of the cars and the steering feel inho

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Am not sure but aren't porsche C4 same setup as audi but other way around ie RWD with a clutch that engage the front wheels when the rear slips?
Audi need to concentrate more on sorting out, the position of engine, the weight of the cars and the steering feel inho

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Absolutely! The Lambo Gallardo transfers its torque to the front using a Haldex unit as well...

The modified Haldex units currently available offer a more "sporting" feel, and modified motor mounts and suspensions are all there to change the A3 Q from comfy boulevard cruiser to canyon-carving monster...

OK, so to take an A3 and modify it for a more "sporting" feel will take a few Euros, but you end up with a high-quality sporting car that remains discreet. Like a Porsche without the badge.

I agree Jo, that it works better but only for high-powered cars
question is when do you really need 4wd?
I would say in only one (allegedly large) occasion when the wheels slip : understeer, oversteer, full 4WDrift (or..... at a trafiic light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif) but with a well sorted chassis if you consider only the impact of whence the driving axle is coming from then:
for 280Nm and below (through one axle only), then FWD is good enough
over 280Nm and then you can ask the question do I need RWD or 4WD
in the case of our cars over 300Nm then, for me, FWD + haldex makes sense as we're only a few Nm more because we use those few Nm only at full throttle and that is when the haldex comes in I believe.
Finally as the haldex can only transfer 50% of torque then you would think that due to the same limitation on the steering wheel, a FWD + haldex car could "only" get to about 550Nm. good enough for me

I am sure I said lots of ill-informed stuff but at least I tried!

It seems to me that some people have been taken in by BMW's advertising. I suspect the reason BMW and some others still have rear wheel drive is because they cannot afford the investment in new plant and tooling that would be required.

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Does it also seem to you that Ferraris, Nobles, Ariels and Lotus cars would choose front wheel drive if only they could afford to make the change?


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I'm quite sure they could if they wanted...but they don't.

People who buy the above cars, want something with driving dynamics that takes time to learn and master...something that will punish you if you get it wrong...that's what learing to drive a sports car is all about...not understeering all over the place in some ill handling, overgrown shopping car.

Also, the owners of the above list aren't likely to complain or try to sue the manufacturer if they reverse their car off the road...they accept it's part of the risk of cars like that.
Not so with Audi.
FWD / quattro is safe...which fits Audis image.

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I agree Jo, that it works better but only for high-powered cars
question is when do you really need 4wd?
I would say in only one (allegedly large) occasion when the wheels slip : understeer, oversteer, full 4WDrift (or..... at a trafiic light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif) but with a well sorted chassis if you consider only the impact of whence the driving axle is coming from then:

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As Eef has said elsewhere, I think I need to drive a Quattro. I am disappointed with the traction in my (lightly chipped) 2.0 TDi. Unfortunately I can't agree with your views on FWD Steph. Steering and driving with the same wheels is a compromise, and this is noticeable ALL the time when I drive, not just on the numerous times each day that the traction control kicks in.
The reason i asked the question in the first place is that I want an Audi that drives as well as a comparable BMW. I prefer the driving experience of a BMW (3 series in my case) but prefer the interior, exterior, style and "image" of an Audi. In fact I prefer everything else about Audi. If only there was a mid-range Audi (a la 3 series) with RWD I would be a very happy man.
I had hoped that quatrro was the answer - and as Eef says only a test drive will tell.

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what I want to say is that if audi just do a RWD car with the same chassis, overall weight and weight distribution that they have now, the handling would not be improved that much.
Audi problems lie more on these items mentionned above. When you say your audi is handling badly because it's FWD, I dont think that's the reason. My astra turbo (about 190bhp) was FWD and handled very well. You had to push it to its limit to lose traction.

now can anyone mention an ill handling RWD car?
if yes (just think of some american' cars) then you have your answer. RWD is not a garantee of good handling car.

I'll say it again for FWD it's the same prob. if the chassis and the weight distribution are good then it can handle very very well. Yet again that true only if you dont put over ???Nm thru the steering wheel.

Eef, you know that ultimately you're right: An Audi will never be a Porsche.

My point is that a lot of the "slop" engineered in our A3s can be eliminated: different engine mounts, (steering rack mounts are under development), alignment and suspension mods will contribute to take a lot of the mushiness out of the handling.

Of course, weight (1500 kg for christs' sake!) center of gravity height, roll center heights and poor camber gain at the front will keep the A3 from ever being a "true" sports car.

BUT, with a debadged and lightly-tweaked 3.2, you end up with a potent machine that is virtually indistinguishable from an "overgrown shopping car". That's what my "Porsche without a badge" comment was about, and that's exactly what some people (such as myself) need.

I simply can't show up at work with a Porsche. My co-workers would go on strike immediately asking for a raise. But selling my merc in favor of an A3, well, that's just sensible ;-)

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I simply can't show up at work with a Porsche. My co-workers would go on strike immediately asking for a raise

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif so true!

Ess_Three, certainly you can make better handling car than Porsche from A3. You can even do that with Opel Corsa. Just look at rally, RWD cars are no match whatsoever to FWD cars. Mud, SNOW, ICE, sand, asphalt, in rally FWD gives RWD a run for it's money.

But, what would they know.. BMW's advertising of "RWD" making people believe it's the key to driving success, bs. 50/50 weight distribution might be, but RWD certainly isn't. Unless, of course getting stuck to traffic lights at winter is what you call "driving pleasure", or "dynamic".

- Yak

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Ess_Three, certainly you can make better handling car than Porsche from A3. You can even do that with Opel Corsa. Just look at rally, RWD cars are no match whatsoever to FWD cars. Mud, SNOW, ICE, sand, asphalt, in rally FWD gives RWD a run for it's money.

But, what would they know.. BMW's advertising of "RWD" making people believe it's the key to driving success, bs. 50/50 weight distribution might be, but RWD certainly isn't. Unless, of course getting stuck to traffic lights at winter is what you call "driving pleasure", or "dynamic".

- Yak

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Surely an irrelevant point though, as Audis don't make rally cars and we don't drive rally cars on the road. The discussion is all about road cars, possibly track day cars, but it's certainly the very small minority that do rallycross.

The Mk V GTI golf handles well for a VAG car out of the box...

Audi make SAFE cars which = FWD or 4WD with front bias, understeer and ESP nanny control.

They made the TT neutral, and the inexperienced crashed it. Lesson learnt...

Jungle, David, you guys are both right: as far as driving pleasure goes, engineering a car with fwd is a handicap. I agree that seperating steering from propulsion generally makes for better (lighter, more communicative) steering.

I recognize that an A3 will never be an S2000, but it can be tuned for a more focused experience.

Anyone know where I can read detailed information on the A3's steering rack and electric assistance? TIA