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Thread: To Quattro or not to Quattro that is the question!

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    To Quattro or not to Quattro that is the question!

    ok im getting an a3 sline 170 2.0 tdi when i return home from spain later this year. Do i get a quattro or not? How does quattro affect 0-60time slower slightly? I will also be having the car remapped could you advise on the best company for this, im willing to pay premium for a good professional company! Thankyou

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    ton246's Avatar
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    Quattro all the way.

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    Quattro all the way to the bank mate, FWD + 170 bhp = Crap

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    A remapped 170d is a lot of torque for the front wheels to deal with on their own.
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    +1 ... I really do not like powerful cars with FWD... QUATTRO everytime please...

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    Quote Originally Posted by PilotAudi View Post
    +1 ... I really do not like powerful cars with FWD... QUATTRO everytime please...
    I came from a 280 bhp astra vxr and boy was that a handfull!

    The 170 Quattro is a joy to drive on the twisties and being from the highlands we have some of the best driving roads in britian so its epic.

    My friends FWD A4 just understeers all day like the vxr did.

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    FWD is the vast majority of Audis sold these days for a reason - Cheaper to buy, cheaper on fuel. If quattro was that good, you have to ask yourself why do the majority not buy it?

    The engine power is no argument either, there is no 4x4 option on the 170bhp Leons or Golfs and there are loads of them about!

    The fact they are safer is an argument that is true, but it does lull you into a false sense of security and just because your safe driving quickly in the rain, your car cannot compensate for all the other idiots on the roads.
    Last edited by Lee_R; 12th March 2011 at 17:33.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee_R View Post
    Cheaper to buy, cheaper on fuel.
    Nail hit on head !

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    Nail hit on head maybe..... but Quattro makes an Audi far better.

    To be honest I would rather have a year or so older Quattro than a new FWD if cash was an issue which fortunately it isn't.

    I appreciate many on here will be stuck with company cars budgets etc but for a considerably better driving experience in all conditions it's Quattro for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee_R View Post
    FWD is the vast majority of Audis sold these days for a reason - Cheaper to buy, cheaper on fuel. If quattro was that good, you have to ask yourself why do the majority not buy it?

    The engine power is no argument either, there is no 4x4 option on the 170bhp Leons or Golfs and there are loads of them about!

    The fact they are safer is an argument that is true, but it does lull you into a false sense of security and just because your safe driving quickly in the rain, your car cannot compensate for all the other idiots on the roads.
    Seat dont do 4x4 cars...

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    I know, I drive an S3, I was just saying that the reason more 2wd cars sell is that they are cheaper, not better ! 4x4 all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ton246 View Post
    I know, I drive an S3, I was just saying that the reason more 2wd cars sell is that they are cheaper, not better ! 4x4 all the time.
    Ooow S3! You toff

    Now thats where the quattro will really come alive with petrol power

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    Dear god, here we go again with all the Quattro zealots.

    Basically Quattro will give you better grip and handling in slippery conditions but is far from the total necessity that many would have you believe, even with 170PS and 350Nm of torque. On dry roads I've never had any traction issues at all with FWD, nor have I ever once wished I'd specced Quattro. Even pulling away from a standstill, there's more than enough traction, something borne out by the official 0-60 figures - 7.8s for the Quattro vs 8.0 for the FWD, hardly any difference at all.

    Basically, if you want the additional traction and road-holding of Quattro then by all means specify it but you'll pay more for the car, produce more CO2 (which may affect tax), use more fuel and have less boot space.

    As I've said before, ignore the zealots. There are far too many people on here who can't see past the end of their own nose and are incapable of comprehending that others may have different priorities and opinions to them. Quattro has both advantages and disadvantages - test drive a car both with and without and make up your own mind
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    Interesting how the insults start flying from non Quattro owners. I am no zealot, we have FWD and RWD cars on the 'fleet'. For me an Audi with a bit of performance becomes far better with Quattro than one without it.

    WT*??? Our Audi must be rubbish because it doesn't have folding mirrors eh!!

    Sorry the OP was asking Quattro or no Quattro... for me (ME, my opinion and open to challenge) Quattro is the way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PilotAudi View Post
    Interesting how the insults start flying from non Quattro owners.
    Err, I think you'll find your camp started that with MOOSH's "FWD + 170 bhp = Crap" remark.

    I'm afraid that, on the whole, you'll find far more Quattro proponents spouting "FWD is crap" remarks than you will FWD proponents shouting "Quattro is pointless".
    Last edited by Vertigo1; 12th March 2011 at 18:46.
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    I would not be so bold (after a few beers) to say FWD + 170 bhp =Crap but it sure isn't that great in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo1 View Post
    Err, I think you'll find your camp started that with MOOSH's "FWD + 170 bhp = Crap" remark.

    I'm afraid that, on the whole, you'll find far more Quattro proponents spouting "FWD is crap" remarks than you will FWD proponents shouting "Quattro is pointless".
    Quote Originally Posted by PilotAudi View Post
    I would not be so bold (after a few beers) to say FWD + 170 bhp =Crap but it sure isn't that great in my opinion.
    Only a joke guys?!

    I was fortunate to get a quattro when the right one came up, i would have been happy with either tbh but having driven both i would go for the quattro if i was the OP after all it is a discussion...

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    Now, now children, lets not throw our toys out the pram. I for one much prefer the surefootedness (is there such a word) of the Quattro, as I like to drive 'spiritedly' shall we say, previous car was a Impreza Sti which was an awesome motor, these type of cars are made to be driven 'spiritedly', so, I personelly love the quattro system for that reason. If I just wanted to pootle about going to the shops then a FWD 170bhp tdi would be fine Lol. Ooops, what have I said !!

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    Quattro FTW! 170 CR/PD has too much torque for FWD to properly get it down in the wet/damp, and even in dry will just understeer out of the bends much more. And then of course our winters are getting much worse and 4wd is priceless, saved me being stuck overnight on the M6.
    And when you get the inevitable remap you'll love the haldex even more.

    Of course slight economy penalty but the 2.0TDI 170 is far from the most economical 2.0 diesel anyway.
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    Glad to see the voices(s) of commonsense... Quattro everytime ....

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    quattro all the way, I have had 2 FWD A4's and have a A3 Quattro 170 it is by far the best in all conditions and off the line it is excellent. Even my friend who has a type R knows he has no chance against a 170 quattro in all but the driest of roads. In snow it is simply amazing compared to FWD cars.
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    Quattro is excellent in the wet/snow and from a standing start, however in the dry in normal driving conditions i.e 30-50 mph it will be slower. I used to have a remapped 1.9(105) Leon and it was just as quick as my standard 170CR quattro. Quattro has increased weight and drive train loss. I got my A3 in January and am already considering remaps and dpf removal because it feels so slow.
    At the end of the day it's down to personal preference, there is no right or wrong just pro's and con's.
    I don't think you'll be disappointed with either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyd View Post
    Quattro is excellent in the wet/snow and from a standing start, however in the dry in normal driving conditions i.e 30-50 mph it will be slower. I used to have a remapped 1.9(105) Leon and it was just as quick as my standard 170CR quattro. Quattro has increased weight and drive train loss. I got my A3 in January and am already considering remaps and dpf removal because it feels so slow.
    At the end of the day it's down to personal preference, there is no right or wrong just pro's and con's.
    I don't think you'll be disappointed with either.
    +1 i would have bought either which ever had the better spec for the money i had.

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    4wd isnt a must, plenty of fairly powerful stuff does without it, but with a remapped 170d you will be able to use more of the power more of the time.
    It would be my preference.

    Ive only even driven FWD 20FSI A3s but having had FWD A4s (140CR / 18T Petrol) on loan I wasnt a fan.
    Maybe thats because Im used to quattro now. So much so that when speccing a new A4 170derv recently I didnt consider FWD at all. So in the end decided on a 3 series. Work that one out. (just hope we dont get much snow this year!)

    cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    when speccing a new A4 170derv recently I didnt consider FWD at all. So in the end decided on a 3 series. Work that one out. (just hope we dont get much snow this year!)

    cheers
    Paul
    Simple Paul, given the choice of FWD or RWD i would always go RWD. I would not consider a FWD Audi ! the whole point of Audi is Quattro and /or DSG. If you want a fwd manual car the world is your oyster. FWD is fine for most but it is not the best, its the cheap option and that is why you dont see cheaper cars with RWD.
    Last edited by paddy; 13th March 2011 at 14:13.

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    I gotta be honest, if you want a practical business motorway basher, then stick with your FWD.. But if you're a true petrol head, and have any interest in tuning at all, then it must be quattro all the way! Although I must say that the standard setup for audi's quattro system is pants and very girly...
    Without the performance haldex control unit it understeers like a FWD anyway, so unless you're gonna set your quattro up properly, this argument is a lil academic.....
    Red is the colour..

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    Quote Originally Posted by quattro 1981 View Post
    I gotta be honest, if you want a practical business motorway basher, then stick with your FWD.. But if you're a true petrol head, and have any interest in tuning at all, then it must be quattro all the way! Although I must say that the standard setup for audi's quattro system is pants and very girly...
    Without the performance haldex control unit it understeers like a FWD anyway, so unless you're gonna set your quattro up properly, this argument is a lil academic.....
    quattro understeers nothing like FWD

    Break traction in a corner with a FWD car- understeer- push harder- more understeer-less traction.
    Break traction in a corner with a Haldex car -understeer- push harder- rear hooks up- more traction.

    Simply not the same, so not an academic debate.

    If any Haldex car behaves like a FWD then take it to a garage because its broken. Controller or not.
    Last edited by PaulAr; 13th March 2011 at 15:08.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    quattro understeers nothing like FWD
    Ok! Fair enough, it's not quite as bad as FWD but its definitely set up to understeer to protect hairdressers from coming unstuck! lol..
    Once you go with haldex controller you'll never go back..
    I quite like the new A1 quttro concept idea with a seperate motor just for the rear axle.
    Red is the colour..

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    Quote Originally Posted by quattro 1981 View Post
    Ok! Fair enough, it's not quite as bad as FWD but its definitely set up to understeer to protect hairdressers from coming unstuck! lol..
    Once you go with haldex controller you'll never go back..
    I quite like the new A1 quttro concept idea with a seperate motor just for the rear axle.
    I guess you need to be pushing pretty hard to feel the controller though? Ive not tried a car with this mod.

    Paul
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    Yer you do! But you definitely get much more of a sensation of being pushed up the road even in normal straight line driving.. Singularly one of my fav mods on my TT.. With full coilys and H&R Roll bars, handling is totally transformed! After REVO stage 2+ or 3, it's a must I'd say
    Red is the colour..

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    Quattro ............. the only thing I regreted not having when I bought one.
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    4 motion = Haldex
    Quattro = Torsen

    4 motion is only good when you slip otherwise it's a 90% FWD car. Unless you drive aggressively or drive frequently in the snow, you will never notice it.
    Take advantage of Race mode HPA haldex Gen 2 or 4 for a 50/50 full time split. You feel it everyday in everyway

  34. #33
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    quattro is a pleasure to drive
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcardio View Post
    4 motion = Haldex
    Quattro = Torsen
    I have an S3 quattro and it is Haldex not Torsen.

    Torsen features in the larger VAG cars such as the A4.
    Now:
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    Quattro is hands down the one to go for. If you plan to remap your 170tdi it will really help with the torque.

    FWD turbo cars torque steer a fair bit iv come from an NA car its quite a difference progressive power against any kind of boost. (I do not have a quattro BTW)

    Go for the Quattro on your model because the added weight of the quattro system doesnt really matter alot to you as you have more than sufficient torque to carry the weight.

    FWD is really good people take the 4 wheel drive systems for granted thinking they are far superior, they are far less predictable when something goes wrong. (This however is another topic for discussion)
    Last edited by Farhan; 14th March 2011 at 09:45.
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    No paular, you have an s3 four motion. You do not have quattro.. Quattro was originally coined for torsen not haldex. 4 motion was coined for haldex. Audi names your car quattro for sexy sales. But in the end an a3 is 4 motion just like gti/golf

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    Stock Haldex will understeer, but it will progressively understeer to a point, while the FWD car will progressively understeer at a higher rate to a point where it will just go straight, regardless of your steering angle.
    Quote Originally Posted by tcardio View Post
    No paular, you have an s3 four motion. You do not have quattro.. Quattro was originally coined for torsen not haldex. 4 motion was coined for haldex. Audi names your car quattro for sexy sales. But in the end an a3 is 4 motion just like gti/golf
    I think this is not exactly the case. Quattro was always differential based, and 4 Motion was always based on the sticky liquid they put inside differentials. This clutch based solution is like a in between for VW and Audi. If there was no Audi, VW might have kept the LSD around, and if there were no VW, Audi would have kept implementing differential based quattro.
    Last edited by LWNY; 14th March 2011 at 15:16.

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    Just to add another 2pennies... Forgetting modding, quattro does feel a lot more planted on the road than FWD, as does the 4motion in the mrs V6 golf.. For real world driving it feels safer, particularly in any poor weather/grip conditions.. The only way to tell is to drive BOTH yourself and go with what YOU feel comfortable with...
    Failing that, go out IMMEDIATELY and buy an Audi E2!
    Last edited by quattro81; 14th March 2011 at 16:14.
    Red is the colour..

  40. #39
    PaulAr's Avatar
    S3 (8P)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcardio View Post
    No paular, you have an s3 four motion. You do not have quattro..
    Your are winding me up right ?

    quattro is a generic term that AUDI uses to describe all of its 4wd drive cars. Its no more scientific than that.
    Who just decided that S3s are 4 motion? Shall I take the quattro badges off then?

    The SAAB 9.3 Turbo X uses Haldex, is that a 4 Motion too?
    Last edited by PaulAr; 14th March 2011 at 17:39.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  41. #40
    paddy's Avatar
    Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Paul
    Are you still selling your Audi GTi then I am keeping my R32VR6 Audi

 

 
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