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    Does this look a bit dodgy......?

    ......or am I being over cautious?

    As a few of you know I'm currently searching for a 3.2 DSG SB

    I quite like the look of this

    But a few things don't quite add up.

    1) It's on for at least 4K over market value - that I can live with. Can't begrudge them trying to make a bit of cash and I'm expecting to haggle a bit.
    2) It's listed as being a trade seller - this is what I have more of a problem with:
    - Pics taken by the side of the road, not at dealers.
    - Only a mobile phone number, no land line to the dealer.
    - No dealer website
    - No dealer address
    - "MG" is the name of the dealer - can't exactly find them doing a web search!
    - No other cars listed for sale by the same dealer
    - No mention of warranty, PX etc
    - Pretty poor description "basically fully loaded", dealers usually write a page of stuff!

    What do you think, steer well clear even if they can be beaten down on price? A few things just don't add up. Shame, looks like a decent car.

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  3. #2
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    he might just be a private seller who does not deal in cars and made a few errors .... just ring him and find out what is the score.... and if you decide to view and buy make sure all docs are in order, service book, manuals, V5, 2 x keys, and make sure it is HPI clear
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  4. #3
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    I think you have answered your own question really. Might be worth a phone call and quiz the bloke carefully ? nothing lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jon208 View Post
    ......or am I being over cautious?

    As a few of you know I'm currently searching for a 3.2 DSG SB

    I quite like the look of this

    But a few things don't quite add up.

    1) It's on for at least 4K over market value - that I can live with. Can't begrudge them trying to make a bit of cash and I'm expecting to haggle a bit.
    2) It's listed as being a trade seller - this is what I have more of a problem with:
    - Pics taken by the side of the road, not at dealers.
    - Only a mobile phone number, no land line to the dealer.
    - No dealer website
    - No dealer address
    - "MG" is the name of the dealer - can't exactly find them doing a web search!
    - No other cars listed for sale by the same dealer
    - No mention of warranty, PX etc
    - Pretty poor description "basically fully loaded", dealers usually write a page of stuff!

    What do you think, steer well clear even if they can be beaten down on price? A few things just don't add up. Shame, looks like a decent car.


    My brothers friend bought a car from a dealer, but it wasnt through the garage, rather a private sale. turns out it was written off 2 times before he bought it! just something to be wary of. does look sweet though. sometimes too good to be true though!

    all the best, hope you find a good one!

  6. #5
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    Sounds similar to the "dealer" I got my car from... I got mine from an independent dealer on pistonheads. He made a living buying and selling cars, working from home, didn't actually have a showroom, just advertised through pistonheads and eBay. I like you was weary but drove 8 hours to go see the car, went over it with a very fine toothcomb and can't complain, I had a good deal, and got a cracking car.
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    If I can get him to shift on the price enough then an AA inspection will probably buy some peace of mind.

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    Theres loas of sellers about who trade from home, nothing to worry about, keeps costs down.

    Price is way too high though but its a pretty rare car in white and a V6 on a 57 plate!
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    nIce spec... naff colour... Check the service history via your local dealer.

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    4k over market value? good luck hammering that down, prepare for penetration

    I attempted a white DSG in a garage in Notts, the chap still has it up to this day on 27k, i rang him and told him what HIS car booked at and that i was prepared to offer this sum of money - his response was that we sell less but with a bigger margin - So i said 'good luck' you have my number....... idiocy but sum bellend will go in and buy a 58 plate DSG for the same price that you could get a 10 plate from a dealer for
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    As the reg number is shown in the advert, just do an online history check, which costs about Ł8 IIRC. It will tell you some of the history and that way you don't have to make the journey if it is no good.

    As others have said you need to do more thorough checks if/when you do go and see it (VIN check for example) but at least you have done the basics before going over there.
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    TBH I also have to agree with Paddy, which in itself is becoming a habit these days but kinda answered your own question, you have all these doubts but want to ask us what we think, tbh you're the only one who can make that decision not us & I would say its been made just from your post info, if you dont trust then walk, easy peasy.

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    I think Autotrader makes you sell as a trader if you sell more than a certian number of cars in a year, so nothing really to be concerned about. As said, just do all your checks to be sure the car is what it is....
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    As said above - it doesn't matter where it comes from - dealers generally don't buy expensive cars to sell ya
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    As said above - it doesn't matter where it comes from - dealers generally don't buy expensive cars to sell ya
    Sorry, I don't really understand what the point is you're trying to make.

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    might be a private seller but advertising as a trader as its much cheaper...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jon208 View Post
    Sorry, I don't really understand what the point is you're trying to make.
    Point is that people think they are safer going to garages with 'shop windows' be that advertisments or indeed a showroom - reality is your likely to still end up with a dog of a car with a warranty which you could have bought yourself from the RAC or similar.

    Dont discount anywhere or you will cut your nose off to spite your face

    For ref i used to be in sales at a Vauxhall main dealer years ago, i know lots of people still in the trade.... merc get most of their cars from lease hires, Vauxhall get most of theirs from rental firms....... the list goes on
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    Point is that people think they are safer going to garages with 'shop windows' be that advertisments or indeed a showroom - reality is your likely to still end up with a dog of a car with a warranty which you could have bought yourself from the RAC or similar.

    Dont discount anywhere or you will cut your nose off to spite your face

    For ref i used to be in sales at a Vauxhall main dealer years ago, i know lots of people still in the trade.... merc get most of their cars from lease hires, Vauxhall get most of theirs from rental firms....... the list goes on
    OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the advice.

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    As said do an online check. But just be careful, not saying this is but Watchdog did a programme a bit back on guys selling cars on the road side as Traders that were either stolen or shunts. If you do your checks, listen to your gut feelings and check the paperwork, you could get a good bargain.


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    This will be a bargain soon at half the price of the white one, my 2006 3.2 DSG quattro s line. soon to be for sale http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/...4/P1140868.jpg

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    What seems to be have glossed over is that a trader MUST adhere to the sales of goods act (ie fit for purpose etc) but a private sales doesn't.

    In essense some dogdy traders pass off dodgy cars by appearing to be private sellers to get round this.
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    fair point but that alone isnt enough reason to stick to a dealer IMO...if you dont know about cars then get an AA/RAC check...... otherwise your isolating yourself to a dealer and as such will have a greater chance of having your arm torn off.....

    Mis-sold isn't something you'll use much unless something obvious happens, something an AA/RAC mech could pick up on very easily
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    Quote Originally Posted by auroan View Post
    What seems to be have glossed over is that a trader MUST adhere to the sales of goods act (ie fit for purpose etc) but a private sales doesn't.

    In essense some dogdy traders pass off dodgy cars by appearing to be private sellers to get round this.
    Lots of dealers sell px vehicles without going through there business .I think you can sell 10 cars a year without having to declare .I could be wrong .For me i would prefer to go to a private sale, As first and foremost the car will 90% of the time be far cheaper than any dealer .Secondly using the RAC or AA can give you as much piece of mind as any 6 month warantee from a dealer ..Lots of warantees have so many clauses they are bloody hard to claim on ..All in all just shop around but do not limit your self to dealers .There are lots of old dogs on dealers forecourts with hidden histories..Beware be sharp get a bargain !

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    Na i think that 10 cars is rubbish mate, that would be impossible to police from the revenues perspective and there would be no reason for that to be allowed..... The government really don't make concessions like that
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    Cheers for clearing that up bud .Either way theres ways and means to sell on cars, Without using your business .

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    !0 cars is spot on actually

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    really Paddy? how does that work with VAT and taxes on business profits?.....

    Steve, absolutely but approaching a dealer these days with cash doesn't do what it used to - agree with you entirely, dealers/private etc, keep an open mind
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  29. #28
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    Ring up your tax office and ask them when a hobby becomes a buisness..........they will tell you 10 cars in a year is deemed more than selling a collection etc. I had a similar question buying and selling motorbikes. In any case you need to declare profits on your tax return but i suppose they are saying more than 10 cars you need to register as a business, less might be within private sales and your Ł10.1k CGT allowance ?

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    1animal1's Avatar
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    ah that makes sense then, i think Steve was assuming that a dealer could do this - what you say makes absolute sense, although knowing local tax offices, they will have their own criteria i would imagine to move you into that 'trader' description.

    I honestly would be suprised if a fully fledged business though would be allowed to write off 10 cars profits on its tax return (too many variables and again very very hard to police and would leave the door wide open to tax evasion) - but then define a business. A sole trader wouldnt pay CGT on profits from vehicles, it would be income tax, which would mean that he can claim 10 cars profits against his personal annual allowance.....a limited company would obviously a different kettle
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    I agree once registered as a business they could not sell even 1 car private . I was restoring motorcycles at a rate of knots and asked the tax office if they were interested. Not 10 a year but 5-6 maybe.... they said any more than 10 in a year would be deemed for profit/business rather than a hobby and if it carried on for more than 1 year than i would have to declare anyway. The turn over was not an issue it seems , the last Ducati 900ss i bought for Ł8.5k and sold 12 months later for Ł21k and i never even got round to touching it !!
    I now buy and sell old bank notes but as a hobby..again its getting to the stage where i am pushing my luck defining this as a hobby.

  32. #31
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    Thats good then, pick your battles wisely and you'll not only evade tax but also make a few extra quid win win.....now to find those bargains (easy if you know where to look )

    You've not done bad on the bikes from what you've said, especially the Ducati.... I might be in touch in the future (hopefully distant), my uncle (who is getting very old) has literally shed loads of old cars/bikes ranging from one of the first ever production motorbikes right across the ranges of Motorguzzi's and Ducatti racing bikes (from when he raced) not to mention 1950's space frame single seater chassis's, a Westfield 11...and a few others, gonna be a nightmare to shift with my limited knowledge.
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  33. #32
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    Anything Italian i can shift. either buying from you or selling world wide on commission. we have dealers/Collectors all over the world who regularly pay Ł100k + for Italian bikes with racing history etc. We also import and export ourselves.
    This is a web site i run for my friend who actually owns the business. i used to do his mechanics for him. Not a huge stock list at present.
    www.madeinitalymotorcycles.com

    4th picture down on the "about us" page and that blue/ silver ducati nearest the camera is the one i made the Ł12k on
    Last edited by paddy; 12th February 2011 at 11:55.

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    some nice looking bikes on there..... beyond me though, useful knowing someone who can shift them though - will keep you in mind

    sorry to the OP...back on topic
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    some nice looking bikes on there..... beyond me though, useful knowing someone who can shift them though - will keep you in mind

    sorry to the OP...back on topic
    No worries, interesting stuff. I think the advice that with a good inspection you're as safe as with many dealers is valid.

    Now, just need a pricing realignment....

  36. #35
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    good luck mate and dont lose ya patience and panic buy - we all get the urge as time elapses
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    fair point but that alone isnt enough reason to stick to a dealer IMO...if you dont know about cars then get an AA/RAC check...... otherwise your isolating yourself to a dealer and as such will have a greater chance of having your arm torn off.....

    Mis-sold isn't something you'll use much unless something obvious happens, something an AA/RAC mech could pick up on very easily
    I wasn't thinking about it from the point of the buyer... more from the point of the seller. Ie a trader shifting a car as a private seller, when he knows there is something wrong with it.
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    think i follow you, we were talking about the quality of car supplied by a dealer ie where they have come from as opposed to something obvious being wrong - i dont see your point
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