Just popped into local bmw dealership, drew up alongside bmw 1 series to compare. 1 series, for all its accolades, looks like a horse designed by a commitee (a camel). Outside - the convex sweep of the door line makes it look "pregnant". Rear end, like a bashed in Astra. Inside - at best boring, at worst, cheap. Sportback, looks substantially better finished - panels look more solid and seem to fit better and quality of paint, stunning by comparison. All round, a far better looking car. Definitely made right decision. Much joy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif
sportback v bmw 1 series
- Thread starter Horchsense
- Start date
I also considered the 1-Series, but never went near the dealer after looking at the pictures for long enough. I just couldn't live with the styling - the front is just odd and the rear looks like any other midrange family hatchback.
In the reviews the Beemer scores well for driveability, but the Sportback has more space and is somewhat more practical. But apart from anything else the Audi just looks better!
In the reviews the Beemer scores well for driveability, but the Sportback has more space and is somewhat more practical. But apart from anything else the Audi just looks better!
Nicely summed up Ben /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Put a BM badge on anything and people will buy it.
Would be good one day if they could take some ill conceived, far eastern, elephant man of a car, put a BM badge on it and see the admiring hoardes flock to buy one! One for Beadle! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Btw, if anyone wants to give me a 6 series, that is another matter entirely and it will be graciously received. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Put a BM badge on anything and people will buy it.
Would be good one day if they could take some ill conceived, far eastern, elephant man of a car, put a BM badge on it and see the admiring hoardes flock to buy one! One for Beadle! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Btw, if anyone wants to give me a 6 series, that is another matter entirely and it will be graciously received. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The 1-series is a 3 door coupe failing to pass as a 5 door estate. The Sportsback sweeps the floor with it on everything apart from the engine (boy, that common rail engine is smooth) and handling (loads and loads of grip).
I love the looks, handling and engine of the 1. But for £25k+ (otherwords, £3k more for the same spec as an A3), it neither has the quality nor the practically of the A3 Sportsback. It's another "emperor's clothes" model from Bayern!
I love the looks, handling and engine of the 1. But for £25k+ (otherwords, £3k more for the same spec as an A3), it neither has the quality nor the practically of the A3 Sportsback. It's another "emperor's clothes" model from Bayern!
Yeah, 1-series has it's faults and goodies. Not everyone likes it looks, but it has lots of nice details, curves, aggressivity and it's pretty unique in it's looks. Audi doesn't have distinctive outlook in any of the models, unlike BMW. Anyway, personally I like what Bangle has done, most of the models are nice.
Handling is nice, engines (well I've only driven 120d) are alright, missing a big petrol engine though. 120d isn't really that sporty, it's power delivery is pretty smooth, but it does clank and the whole car shakes in traffic lights. Well, it's better than A3's 2,0TDI but still not a sporty engine compared to 3,2 for example.
Had they made it 3-door, it would be a good contender to A3. But with 5-doors, it's not good in any category. The front doors should be longer to make it easier to step in the car, which 3-door models & coupes have as their advantage. 1-series doesn't have this advantage, and on the other hand, you can't use it for more than 2 people. Backseats are like 2+2 coupes, no legroom whatsoever.
And price is something horrible, it's not competitive with A3 in that sector either, and some other faults are of course visibility, it plain sucks.
- Yak
Handling is nice, engines (well I've only driven 120d) are alright, missing a big petrol engine though. 120d isn't really that sporty, it's power delivery is pretty smooth, but it does clank and the whole car shakes in traffic lights. Well, it's better than A3's 2,0TDI but still not a sporty engine compared to 3,2 for example.
Had they made it 3-door, it would be a good contender to A3. But with 5-doors, it's not good in any category. The front doors should be longer to make it easier to step in the car, which 3-door models & coupes have as their advantage. 1-series doesn't have this advantage, and on the other hand, you can't use it for more than 2 people. Backseats are like 2+2 coupes, no legroom whatsoever.
And price is something horrible, it's not competitive with A3 in that sector either, and some other faults are of course visibility, it plain sucks.
- Yak
TDI-line
Uber Post Whore
Did you know the cost of the 18" alloys for the 1 series is about £2000, as even the sport model only comes with 16". Even the sizing was only 205 not 225. What a joke!
RacingTeatray
Freezing in Moscow
£2000? Really? I specced up a 120d Sport to my liking out of curiosity at the dealer and I think having the 5-spoke 17" Star alloys (vital for the looks) was only an extra £400 or so?
Even with xenons, leather and a few other goodies the all-in price was very similar to a similarly-specced A3 Sportback 2.0TDi Sport.
Plus that £500 for all servicing pack is fantastic value. Audi don't get close on that.
Such a pity about the interior quality and the wonky looks it really is!
Even with xenons, leather and a few other goodies the all-in price was very similar to a similarly-specced A3 Sportback 2.0TDi Sport.
Plus that £500 for all servicing pack is fantastic value. Audi don't get close on that.
Such a pity about the interior quality and the wonky looks it really is!
It seems to me that the main selling point of the 1 series is rear wheel drive, and the benifits that brings in terms of handling. But, how many people are ever going to get anywhere near the limits of any cars handling?
99.9% of people will drive around well within the car's limits and will never go anywhere near a track. It's completely impractical (and irrisponsible) to be exploring a car's limits on a public road. I don't give a toss if someone stacks it into a tree one night, but I don't want to be coming the other way at the time!
I think everyone's right about the badge thing, and I think rear wheel drive is just something to boast about in the pub - "oh yes, well I went for the BM because of the rear wheel drive dynamics, it's really a drivers car....', and to cover up for buying the badge.
Classic example is a guy at work, he ordered his 1 series without even test driving one. £17k car with no air con, no alloys and not much else....
99.9% of people will drive around well within the car's limits and will never go anywhere near a track. It's completely impractical (and irrisponsible) to be exploring a car's limits on a public road. I don't give a toss if someone stacks it into a tree one night, but I don't want to be coming the other way at the time!
I think everyone's right about the badge thing, and I think rear wheel drive is just something to boast about in the pub - "oh yes, well I went for the BM because of the rear wheel drive dynamics, it's really a drivers car....', and to cover up for buying the badge.
Classic example is a guy at work, he ordered his 1 series without even test driving one. £17k car with no air con, no alloys and not much else....
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Paul_M said:
Classic example is a guy at work, he ordered his 1 series without even test driving one. £17k car with no air con, no alloys and not much else....
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Don't be surprised at this, some people go to property auctions and purchase houses they have never seen.....
Paul_M said:
Classic example is a guy at work, he ordered his 1 series without even test driving one. £17k car with no air con, no alloys and not much else....
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't be surprised at this, some people go to property auctions and purchase houses they have never seen.....
This is interesting stuff guys. I chose a Sportback 2.0 TDi having driven a 320CDi for 2 years because I was bored of the 3 series and thought the 1 series was just too ugly. Although I am now used to the A3, my initial impressions were of complete horror. It may reassure you to believe that rear wheel drive is only of use to boy racers and highly skilled track dayers, but I noticed the move to front wheel drive immediately. Understeer, very poor traction (especially in the wet), torque steer and generally unimpressive dynamics, as well as an incredibly noisy engine (2.0 TDi), wind noise at speed and serious tyre roar (SE).
Obviously I should have tested the A3 first but my mind was already made up.
I agree that the 1 series is compromised in terms of looks and packaging, but I am afraid anyone who enjoys driving (and I don't necessarily mean racing everywhere) would do well to consider paying the price of driving an ugly, cramped car with the most unpopular badge around as it will be a far more satisfying drive than an A3.
Obviously I should have tested the A3 first but my mind was already made up.
I agree that the 1 series is compromised in terms of looks and packaging, but I am afraid anyone who enjoys driving (and I don't necessarily mean racing everywhere) would do well to consider paying the price of driving an ugly, cramped car with the most unpopular badge around as it will be a far more satisfying drive than an A3.
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jungle said:
Understeer, very poor traction (especially in the wet), torque steer and generally unimpressive dynamics, as well as an incredibly noisy engine (2.0 TDi), wind noise at speed and serious tyre roar (SE).
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Can't argue much with these comments. I used to drive a Focus ST170 so know all about sorted FWD cars: much as I love the Sportback (also a 2.0TDI SE) it's merely average to drive next to the Focus. Chassis is competent, fairly tidy and vibration-free but getting the power down quickly in the wet can be tricky.
The engine is also noisy at idle and from cold, although it does rev smoothly. Incidentally, my Dad has a Focus TDCi and when I moved our Sportback at the weekend so he could get his car off the driveway, the difference is noise was very surprising - I had no idea the 2.0TDI was that noisy! The TDCi idles very quietly and is even more refined on the move.
However, I think the Sportback is pretty good with wind noise and the tyre roar isn't as bad as the Sport model we test drove (with the 17" wheels).
jungle said:
Understeer, very poor traction (especially in the wet), torque steer and generally unimpressive dynamics, as well as an incredibly noisy engine (2.0 TDi), wind noise at speed and serious tyre roar (SE).
[/ QUOTE ]
Can't argue much with these comments. I used to drive a Focus ST170 so know all about sorted FWD cars: much as I love the Sportback (also a 2.0TDI SE) it's merely average to drive next to the Focus. Chassis is competent, fairly tidy and vibration-free but getting the power down quickly in the wet can be tricky.
The engine is also noisy at idle and from cold, although it does rev smoothly. Incidentally, my Dad has a Focus TDCi and when I moved our Sportback at the weekend so he could get his car off the driveway, the difference is noise was very surprising - I had no idea the 2.0TDI was that noisy! The TDCi idles very quietly and is even more refined on the move.
However, I think the Sportback is pretty good with wind noise and the tyre roar isn't as bad as the Sport model we test drove (with the 17" wheels).
There is an interesting test in this month's Test Drive magazine, where they compare 1.6l versions of the A3 S/B, Golf, 1-series and A-Class, and they are rated in that order.
They say the A3 has the best ride and handling of the 4 cars, and it is worth the extra money over the Golf.
They say the A3 has the best ride and handling of the 4 cars, and it is worth the extra money over the Golf.
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Yak said:
jungle, trust me, it wouldn't. After first day in the traffic, you would sell it. The visibility is just so horrible, mirrors are small, and windows are small. You can only see straight ahead, no hoping of reversing. - Yak
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Good work Yak - I was hoping that would be the case. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gifDon't get me wrong, I absolutely love my Sportback as its perfect for 99% of my driving (a roads and motorways). I have done 10,000 miles in 6 weeks! I love the interior, the space, the looks, the stereo. When it comes to racing down twisty lanes or powering out of wet roundabouts I would expect the BMW to be better (the 3 series certainly is) but that is not a priority for me, and the Audi is so good at most things I can accept it won't be the best at all things.
On the subject of car tests (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) I would suggest that people make up their own minds. You will find a test to make you feel better about anything these days - Clarkson slated the 1 series but Top Gear Magazine gives it 4 out of 5 stars. I read a test between Golf BMW and Audi which rated them in that order, and another which rated them exactly the other way round. There are no bad cars in the three mentioned, just ones which satisfy priorities to different degrees. As a buyer you need to work out what your priorities are and then make an informed choice. A3 owners saying their cars handle better than equivalent BMWs have either got their priorities mixed up or want to believe that one car can really be better at everything than the other. Not so.
Yak said:
jungle, trust me, it wouldn't. After first day in the traffic, you would sell it. The visibility is just so horrible, mirrors are small, and windows are small. You can only see straight ahead, no hoping of reversing. - Yak
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Good work Yak - I was hoping that would be the case. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gifDon't get me wrong, I absolutely love my Sportback as its perfect for 99% of my driving (a roads and motorways). I have done 10,000 miles in 6 weeks! I love the interior, the space, the looks, the stereo. When it comes to racing down twisty lanes or powering out of wet roundabouts I would expect the BMW to be better (the 3 series certainly is) but that is not a priority for me, and the Audi is so good at most things I can accept it won't be the best at all things.
On the subject of car tests (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) I would suggest that people make up their own minds. You will find a test to make you feel better about anything these days - Clarkson slated the 1 series but Top Gear Magazine gives it 4 out of 5 stars. I read a test between Golf BMW and Audi which rated them in that order, and another which rated them exactly the other way round. There are no bad cars in the three mentioned, just ones which satisfy priorities to different degrees. As a buyer you need to work out what your priorities are and then make an informed choice. A3 owners saying their cars handle better than equivalent BMWs have either got their priorities mixed up or want to believe that one car can really be better at everything than the other. Not so.
There is a lot of truth in what you say, although most of the car magazines do have an extreme bias towards BMW, often ignoring their obvious faults (and apparently oblivious to the abominable styling of the newer models !)
I used to have a BMW 320, but could never really get used to the nervous jittery handling and steering. I constantly had to make steering corrections to keep it on the straight and level. The hacks say this is good 'steering feedback' but I call it bad design ! To their credit, Auto Express is the only magazine I have seen which has criticised BMW for this trait.
On the 1-Series, Test Drive said that it was disadvantaged by its rear-wheel drive, compared to the Audi !
I used to have a BMW 320, but could never really get used to the nervous jittery handling and steering. I constantly had to make steering corrections to keep it on the straight and level. The hacks say this is good 'steering feedback' but I call it bad design ! To their credit, Auto Express is the only magazine I have seen which has criticised BMW for this trait.
On the 1-Series, Test Drive said that it was disadvantaged by its rear-wheel drive, compared to the Audi !
On a slight tangent, Which? magazine has issued a report on car depreciation. They have rated the 1-series as one of the slowest depreciating cars, with the 116i SE losing £8,495 (or 49%) of it's original price. How the hell do they know?! It's around for less than 6 months!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4150893.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4150893.stm
Had a decent look at the guy at work's 1 series today, and I have to say that I'd be pretty gutted if I'd spent £19k on one. He's got the 118d Sport, which is lowered but kind of just looks like it's been overloaded in the back. Boot is a reasonable size though.
The interior space is apauling, I was really cramped in the front and wouldn't have wanted to try and get into the back (I'm 6'1"). Quality wise I don't think it even compares with my girlfriend's Skoda Fabia, the trim looks like really nasty plasic and the swichgear feels cheap.
I know I've been spoiled by my last two cars being VAG, but even so I'd expect a bit more in a £19k car? If it was £13-14k then I'd say fair enough. You know they are still going to sell like hot cakes though!
Obviously we are all biased here, I'm sure in the equivalent bmw-sport.net forum they are all slating the A3!
The interior space is apauling, I was really cramped in the front and wouldn't have wanted to try and get into the back (I'm 6'1"). Quality wise I don't think it even compares with my girlfriend's Skoda Fabia, the trim looks like really nasty plasic and the swichgear feels cheap.
I know I've been spoiled by my last two cars being VAG, but even so I'd expect a bit more in a £19k car? If it was £13-14k then I'd say fair enough. You know they are still going to sell like hot cakes though!
Obviously we are all biased here, I'm sure in the equivalent bmw-sport.net forum they are all slating the A3!
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Paul_M said:
Obviously we are all biased here, I'm sure in the equivalent bmw-sport.net forum they are all slating the A3!
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Paul if you want a good laugh have a look at babybmw.net and go to the "Top Gear / Clarkson" threads. If you caught his review of the 1 series then you can imagine the response... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Paul_M said:
Obviously we are all biased here, I'm sure in the equivalent bmw-sport.net forum they are all slating the A3!
[/ QUOTE ]
Paul if you want a good laugh have a look at babybmw.net and go to the "Top Gear / Clarkson" threads. If you caught his review of the 1 series then you can imagine the response... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Clarkson review of 1 series
Click on the above for the review. Quite entertaining.
I had a few reads of the bmw forum. Couldn't see any A3 bashing but was surprised to learn that the A3 boot is smaller than the 1 series (but only marginally).
Click on the above for the review. Quite entertaining.
I had a few reads of the bmw forum. Couldn't see any A3 bashing but was surprised to learn that the A3 boot is smaller than the 1 series (but only marginally).
Having looked at the babybmw.net forum, I see the owners of the diesel are not pleased with fuel consumption. I am more chuffed with my remapped A3 2.0 litre Sport now and the overall fuel consumption of 46 mpg than I would have ever been with the 1 series. I am glad I didn't wait for it to be released.
heh, looking at BMW forums usually, anyone saying something bad about them is just stupid and can't drive a car. Babybmw.net wasn't an exception /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
- Yak
- Yak
Hi Karsci
Of course you are right but these estimates have to be made by the industry at the release of a car to enable calculations for lease companies who will then charge users a monthly fee based on the value lost during the lease period. It is why 5 years ago leasing costs for a Scooby were similar to that of a 1.6 Astra!
The "calculations" may well be inaccurate, but they are based on experience with other offerings from the manufacturer, the number of vehicles the manufacturer will import to the country per annum, and the type / sector that the car belongs to.
BMW and Audi (to name just 2) have carefully controlled limits on imports to maintain low depreciation rates by reducing availability, and obviously make quality cars. In addition they tend to be resold by official dealers which will help keep used prices high. Finally hatchbacks have lower depreciation rates than, say, high capacity luxo barges (eg A8, 7 series) so you will probably find the calculations will turn out to be pretty close. The only reason for the Sportback showing a slightly higher dep rate is the large numbers of 3 door A3s already available on the 2nd hand market. By the time the Sportback is 12 months old there will be a better supply of used A3s than 1 series. However at the moment you will find dealers selling used A3s for close to list price (excluding options)!
Hope that helps.
Of course you are right but these estimates have to be made by the industry at the release of a car to enable calculations for lease companies who will then charge users a monthly fee based on the value lost during the lease period. It is why 5 years ago leasing costs for a Scooby were similar to that of a 1.6 Astra!
The "calculations" may well be inaccurate, but they are based on experience with other offerings from the manufacturer, the number of vehicles the manufacturer will import to the country per annum, and the type / sector that the car belongs to.
BMW and Audi (to name just 2) have carefully controlled limits on imports to maintain low depreciation rates by reducing availability, and obviously make quality cars. In addition they tend to be resold by official dealers which will help keep used prices high. Finally hatchbacks have lower depreciation rates than, say, high capacity luxo barges (eg A8, 7 series) so you will probably find the calculations will turn out to be pretty close. The only reason for the Sportback showing a slightly higher dep rate is the large numbers of 3 door A3s already available on the 2nd hand market. By the time the Sportback is 12 months old there will be a better supply of used A3s than 1 series. However at the moment you will find dealers selling used A3s for close to list price (excluding options)!
Hope that helps.
