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  1. #1
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    Duel Mass Flywheel knocking.....

    Hi all, recently found out that my duel mass flywheel is knocking and then found out how pricey it is to replace along with clutch, slave cylinder and relevant gaskets etc.

    Just wondering if it's worth doing the single flywheel conversion??? I've heard it's stronger and unlikely to fail, however, I have also heard that the drive is not as smooth, (for obvious reasons), and wondered how noticeable this would be and if there are any other implications?

    Could anybody please advise from their experiences?

    Many thanks,

    Mark

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  3. #2
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    I have smf, first thing to point out is that its noisey on idle, but normal when engaged. Its lighter than dmf so acceleration is faster, less weight mean less stress on other parts which means it can then handle more torque also less likely to fail. Audi dmf are rubbish, even in my mates rs4 b7 it failed!


    A3 2.0 TDI Optics Black S-Line, FR&RTuning Stage 3! GT20 Hybrid Turbo, THS TFSI FMIC, Sachs performance clutch kit+SMF, Milltek 2.5" Turbo-Back Non-Res Exhaust, ITG Maxogen Induction, EGR Delete with FR&RTuning Map out, Custom Black 18" RS4, 35mm H&R springs, S3 brakes, EBC Yellowstuff, front splitter, HID Xenons, S3 tailgate Spoiler, 09 Rear Lights, Retrofit Audi Ipod, S3 Air vents, Bose sound+retrofit JBL Subwoofer 1200W.
    Milltek Cat-back Non-Res for S3 2.0T FOR SALE both 3dr and 5dr PM

  4. #3
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    How much louder is it, is it something others notice because i too need to change mine.
    Finally how much was it?

  5. #4
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    All depends on what your interpretation of loud is but we do quite a few on peoples daily drivers. Better throttle response with SMF and quicker RPM pick-up.

    I posted a thread in our section about clutch kits and single mass flywheels: click here to be taken to the thread

    If you need any more info please just ask...

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  6. #5
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    Thanks all, think I might go with this option!

    @ Backdraft Motorsport - I believe you supply the garage I use, Lincoln VW Specialists, Andy rates you very highly.

  7. #6
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    I suppose I should mention that mine is a2.0 TDI Sport 140. Does anyone or can anyone advise on how much and which parts I need to do the smf conversion please?

    Thanks

  8. #7
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTweedley View Post
    I suppose I should mention that mine is a2.0 TDI Sport 140. Does anyone or can anyone advise on how much and which parts I need to do the smf conversion please?

    Thanks
    If you can tell me your engine code I will check to see what is available for you. And yes we supply Andy and Co from time to time. Always a pleasure .

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backdraft Motorsport View Post
    If you can tell me your engine code I will check to see what is available for you. And yes we supply Andy and Co from time to time. Always a pleasure .
    I'll have a look and post over the weekend as i don't have the car today. Many thanks and fingers crossed!

  10. #9
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    Cool. I'll let you know what we can do on Monaday.

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  11. #10
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    Good news, there is a clutch and lightened flywheel for you car... this kit will fit the following 2.0TDi engine codes... AZV/BKD/BMM

    The kit includes...
    Clutch cover plate
    'Organic' sprung drive plate
    Release bearing
    Single mass flywheel

    Clutch kit can handle 349 Lb/ft (475 NM) torque.

    759 + vat with free delivery to U.K address.

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backdraft Motorsport View Post

    If you need any more info please just ask...
    Is there a greater risk of the crank failing with an SMF over a DMF? I assume the DMF is used by Audi to remove vibration, but wondered whether this is for the benefit of the driver / passengers comfort, the longevity of the crank / running gear, or both (or it maybe another one of those urban myths!).

    I'm going to have to change mine in the near future, and am unsure as to which route to take.
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

  13. #12
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    The DMF is designed to mask the noise and vibration through the gearbox. If you fit the SMF the noise and vibration is no longer masked, which is why you get the rattle. The SMF will have no detrimental effect on the crank or any other working parts. It's just a little louder.

    After speaking to Helix they told me that dual mass flywheels are only good for about 300ft/lb (400NM).

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backdraft Motorsport View Post

    After speaking to Helix they told me that dual mass flywheels are only good for about 300ft/lb (400NM).
    Hmmm, that's not good as I guess I must be pushing close to 100lb/ft more than that with Stg2+.

    I've noticed a significant drop off recently in the urgency of acceleration, and particularly now it's colder the clutch feels almost sticky when running cold (probably due to the master cylinder). Also the higher the revs get, there is also the sensation of the slightest vibration through the car, and it's not wheel balancing as I've had them done twice, and even changed wheels.

    Car has done 45k miles total, and 34k since a it's last clutch / flywheel change at Audi in 2008 (Audi also had to replace the rear diff at same time as it was whining and leaking).

    What does it cost / how long does it take for you guys to fit a new SMF / Helix clutch (+ master cylinder & release bearing) on a 2007 S3 2.0TFSi?
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

  15. #14
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    I would recommend the stage 3 clutch kit as shown in this thread

    That clutch kit inc SMF is 825 + vat. That also includes a new release bearing/slave cylinder.
    Labour and alignment would come to 425 + vat

    Master cylinder is aprox 60 + vat for the genuine Audi part.
    Would fit that FOC as a nice little sweetener for you, if you went for it all.

    The work would take the best part of a day.

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  16. #15
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    Thanks Backdraft, great info there. I assume they are all performance parts you have listed? It does make sense to have the best parts but i'll be on a real tight budget and wondering if these parts can be sourced within the everyday range rather than performance parts?

    Thanks again!

    Mark

  17. #16
    Backdraft Motorsport's Avatar
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    Hi Mark. Yes these are all aftermarket performance parts and audi dont do a SMF unfortunatly. I have spoke to Helix since your last post and I have been told the SMF are quite loud on diesel applications, so unless your looking for absolute performance it may not be the best option after all.

    Steve @ BDM
    Milton Keynes VAG Independant Specialist
    Phone: 01908 648081 / Email: info@backdraftmotorsport.com

  18. #17
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    SMF rattle a lot more on diesel cars then petrol due to the harmonics of the diesel engine. Lighter the flywheel more rattle you get. Putting very thick gearbox oil in the gearbox helps deaden the sound and raising the idle rpm a few hundred helps as well especially on the PD140 BKD engine which has a ruff idle to start with.
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by navnayyar View Post
    . Its lighter than dmf so acceleration is faster, less weight mean less stress on other parts which means it can then handle more torque
    Sorry mate but you have that wrong. With a lighter flywheel you are putting more stress on the rest of the drive train as the power from the engine can be converted into rotational mass quicker which is why the car accelerates faster. An important thing to point out with low revving diesel engines is the weight of the flywheel helps to keep the transmission spinning when you take your foot off the throttle to change gear etc. With high revving petrol engines this doesn`t make so much difference but with a low revving diesel this can sometimes be an issue.
    06 Audi 2.0 PD140 Sport TDI Quattro S-LINE.
    Old engine 330 bhp @ flywheel 263 bhp @ wheel 490 lb torque. Audidriver write up HERE
    Now stripped and playing with an uprated Cryo treated engine fitted with bigger turbo,water/methanol,uprated injectors etc etc.Wanting 400 bhp and 500 lb torque.

    Other car 500+ bhp MK4 Golf R32 turbo.

  20. #19
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    Think I'm going with a complete Sachs kit I've seen on Ebay for 519 and I have a mechanic that will fit it all for 110 which I think is very reasonable.

    The only thing i'm now wondering is that I've seen a couple of things saying that it depends on if my car was originally fitted with a Lucas or Sachs DMF etc from factory??? I fail to see why this makes a difference, can anybody explain please?

    Thanks again folks!

  21. #20
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    Im having problems with my Sachs clutch kit which has been fitted with a brand new LUK DMF, although the parts should all be correct. being investigated as we speak
    A3 2.0TFSI quattro Sportback Lava Grey | | GIAC K03 Extreme Map | Autotech HPFP | RS4 Fuel Regulator | Neuspeed P-Flo | BSH PCV Fix | MV Sport DP | S3 Intake Cam | 285 BHP & 320 lb Ft Torque
    Votex Kit | TD Pro race 1.2 | Schwarze Audi Rings | Alu Rails | Sachs Clutch | H & R Now gone. Current- A5 Cab 2012


  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash_sky1 View Post
    Im having problems with my Sachs clutch kit which has been fitted with a brand new LUK DMF, although the parts should all be correct. being investigated as we speak
    Please post with your findings, thanks

  23. #22
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    That's a major headache one part replacement leads to all parts replacement! Some cars are just meant to be that way - I hate it.

    Shock Absorber and Strut Assembly|Suspension Block|Power Steering Pump|Seat Cover|Tonneau Cover|Driveshaft|Flywheel

  24. #23
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    My flywheel went but i got it all repaired for 5oquid with an aftermarket warranty. I was looking into the SMF route, but i was told with the DSG and BKD engine there was only the DMF available.

    Do you have DSG ?
    Audi A3 2.0TDi S-Line - Bose - AMD Remap - Pipercross Performance air filter - RNS-e Retrofit - RS4 style Alloys

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by navnayyar View Post
    I have smf, first thing to point out is that its noisey on idle, but normal when engaged. Its lighter than dmf so acceleration is faster, less weight mean less stress on other parts which means it can then handle more torque also less likely to fail. Audi dmf are rubbish, even in my mates rs4 b7 it failed!
    Sorry but your incorrect about the less weight means less stress part. The increased weight of the OEM DMF has a huge dampening effect which helps reduce vibrations throughout the drivetrain and crankshaft at higher rpms, fitting a lightweight flywheel actually puts more stress on the rest of the drivetrain.
    A3 2.0TFSI quattro Sportback Lava Grey | | GIAC K03 Extreme Map | Autotech HPFP | RS4 Fuel Regulator | Neuspeed P-Flo | BSH PCV Fix | MV Sport DP | S3 Intake Cam | 285 BHP & 320 lb Ft Torque
    Votex Kit | TD Pro race 1.2 | Schwarze Audi Rings | Alu Rails | Sachs Clutch | H & R Now gone. Current- A5 Cab 2012


  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkTweedley View Post
    Please post with your findings, thanks
    Sorry for late reply- the drive plate was fitted incorrectly, all is well now Sachs set up with DMF is solid.
    A3 2.0TFSI quattro Sportback Lava Grey | | GIAC K03 Extreme Map | Autotech HPFP | RS4 Fuel Regulator | Neuspeed P-Flo | BSH PCV Fix | MV Sport DP | S3 Intake Cam | 285 BHP & 320 lb Ft Torque
    Votex Kit | TD Pro race 1.2 | Schwarze Audi Rings | Alu Rails | Sachs Clutch | H & R Now gone. Current- A5 Cab 2012


 

 

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