How can I tell if my A3 2.0TFSI is a quattro?

[Minstadave]

I'm no car expert and need a little help, bought a 2005 2.0TFSI a couple of weeks ago but having been told its a Quattro I'm now not certain I've been told the truth. It has a quattro badge on the rear, but not having a glovebox or front quattro badge has made me suspicious.

Looking underneath I can't see an obvious diff and the only thing that runs the length of the car is the exhaust, can't see a prop shaft.

In this thread:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?37592-A3-difference-between-quattro-and-turbo-sport

It suggests the exhaust silencer is orientated differently, my rear silencer runs side to side, not front to back, and the exhaust is routed under the passenger side rather than down the centre under the rear half of the car.

Any tips on what I should be looking for? Thank you!

 

[Dani_B19]

Get down under the car and see if it has a rear diff etc. Also wrong section mate, this is the 8l not 8p section.

 

[xs2man]

Would it not tell you in the log book also?

 

[Minstadave]

Ooops, will ask a mod to move, thanks. If I take a picture would it help?

 

[AudiS3-Turbo]

go drive on some grass and accelerate like a loon......open the door while doing so and have a look at the rear wheels if they are spinning......it would be easier to just have a look lol

 

[robby]

you can go onto the DVLA website and enter the reg number, it will then come up with the model

 

[crunchie]

no prop shaft = no quattro. Its quite obvious if you look under.

 

[-Ju-]

Should be dead easy to check that it's quattro!
Prop shaft front to back - look underneath or down back of engine
Rear drive shafts and diff - Easy to tell from underneath
Raised boot floor - quattro is a lot shallower for obvious reasons
Badging - easy to add to rear but should also be on glovebox and grill if non S-line.

Sounds to me like you've been had tbh, should be very easy to see all the mechanicals underneath!

 

[PaulAr]

If its not Quattro then its worth a lot less.

If its been mi-sold then you are entitled to your money back.
A copy of the original advert would be useful in strebgthening your position, assuming it was advertised as quattro?

Are you sure its not a diesel?

Good luck.
Paul

 

[akash_sky1]

it easy to tell, just look more carefully underneath the car. Also it should have the quattro badge on glovebox, and If in doubt just give it some welly off the line it'll be pretty obvious.

 

[Vertigo1]

Assuming this isn't actually a Quattro, as it sounds from the initial post - err, WOW!

I find it hard to believe the dealer would be trying to pull a fast one, unless the "dealer" is some back-street cowboy. It's far more likely that the dealer themselves was "had" when they bought the car (or presumably took it in part-exchange), although if they didn't check it over enough to realise then they're muppets.

 

[dave_ph]

i'd find the easiest way to find out whether its a quattro or not is just do a really aggressive standstill pull away. with the esp off. if your still in stationary after a couple seconds, you know its fwd

 

[Minstadave]

I'm pretty sure it's not a quattro, will call the dealer. Thanks for all the help guys, pretty underwhelmed with the dealer, will see what they say.

 

[RobinA3]

if its DSG then its not Quattro, i am pretty sure that when i bought mines 2005 model you could only have 2 options on the 2.0T:

DSG - 2WD
6 Speeder - Quattro

I don't think you could get 2WD 6 speeder manual in 2005.

please correct me if i am wrong.

also the boot floor is higher on the Quattro, so if you boot floor is at the same level as the bumper when you open the boot it will be a Quattro.

 

[mactrack]

if its DSG then its not Quattro, i am pretty sure that when i bought mines 2005 model you could only have 2 options on the 2.0T:

DSG - 2WD
6 Speeder - Quattro

I don't think you could get 2WD 6 speeder manual in 2005.

please correct me if i am wrong.

also the boot floor is higher on the Quattro, so if you boot floor is at the same level as the bumper when you open the boot it will be a Quattro.

Yes you're right. When I ordered my 8P2 back in late 2005 you could only get the S Line trim on A3's which had either DSG or quattro, which was the 2.0TDi or 2.0TFSi, the only engine which had the option of both was the 3.2.

 

[Stiggles]

Actually I beg to differ, not in an arrogant way ofc as i'm new here just pointing out that MY 2.0TDI is an 05 model WITH a 6 speed manual gearbox and it's a FWD albeit a Sport and Factory ordered it's not exactly a regular A3

Also sorry bout the bump just thought you guys might like to know

 

[RobinA3]

If you read my post i was on about the 2.0T not the TDi.

 

[Stiggles]

If you read my post i was on about the 2.0T not the TDi.

Sorry it was mactracks I was replying too as he said that neither the 2.0TDI nor TFSI came with 6 speed, was just clearing up that the TDI deffo does.

 

[Lee_R]

Sorry it was mactracks I was replying too as he said that neither the 2.0TDI nor TFSI came with 6 speed, was just clearing up that the TDI deffo does.

2.0 TDI sport Manual 6 speed in Sport trim is probably the most common model of A3 produced! There were hundreds for sale when i was looking!

 

[fforeggub]

What happened? If I am reading this right Minster bought a non-Quattro thinking it was a Quattro... WTF. Any evidence that the sale was not correct? Trades Descriptions Act etc..

Quattro is what Audi is all about IMHO.

 

[Lee_R]

Quattro is what Audi is all about IMHO.

Yes i agree but you will find the vast majority of the non S/RS models are FWD drive these days, its all about the company car tax/emissions and quattro is too heavy and economy sucking and therefore too costly for these people.

 

[Minstadave]

What happened? If I am reading this right Minster bought a non-Quattro thinking it was a Quattro... WTF. Any evidence that the sale was not correct? Trades Descriptions Act etc..

Quattro is what Audi is all about IMHO.

I had no evidence that it had been missold unfortunately, the garage said they would take the car back if I was unhappy but I didn't have time to search out a replacement so I decided to keep it. It was a good price and the non-quattro is a little more fuel efficient so I didn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Khufu]

As long as you didnt pay the price a quattro was worth over a FWD I guess its ok...

 

[akash_sky1]

I couldn't live with a non-quattro Audi personally. I was once sold a Bora advertised as a PD130 whereas infact it was only a PD115 :-(.. was quite dissappointed, esp when the turbo went almost straight away too.
Miss my BoraT :-(

 

[Shane.]

As above, the only reason I bought an A3 over the other options was for the Quattro

 

[audicruiser]

Quattro FTW

 

[Minstadave]

Thanks guys

 

[sub39h]

i don't think you've missed much mate personally. on an A4 or something with a proper 4WD system there's no contest, but on your car would be FWD anyway the vast majority of the time and you'd be lugging extra weight around for no particular reason. granted on a track or when it's been tuned to kingdom come there's an advantage to be had, otherwise i think there's a strong argument for FWD over Haldex

 

[akash_sky1]

i don't think you've missed much mate personally. on an A4 or something with a proper 4WD system there's no contest, but on your car would be FWD anyway the vast majority of the time and you'd be lugging extra weight around for no particular reason. granted on a track on when it's been tuned to kingdom come there's an advantage to be had, otherwise i think there's a strong argument for FWD over Haldex

I disagree- even in a standard car in damp /wet weather you will be able to get pretty much ALL your power down from a standstill/coming out a bend with a haldex car whereas a 2wd would be scrabbling for traction. In the snow even just with haldex there's no contest.
My car with 3 worn mid -range tyres and one BALD tyre never got stuck once in an 8 hour drive in 6-8inches of snow at times from Glasgow- Sheffield, where regular 2wd cars had to be abandoned.

And on a modded car there is no contest. Also MPG wise in town both a FWD and quattro 2.0T for example would get pretty much the same economy as the weight has little difference here, neither would extra rolling resistance- as you mentioned the haldex clutch runs virtually disengaged under light load hence has little drag on the engine. When crusing on the motorway this is the same, so at constant speeds/ light loads there is also little penalt economy wise.

 

[sub39h]

you're bound to disagree - you have a quattro lol.

according to the A3 brochure, when you compare the 2.0 TDI and 2.0 TDI quattro (the only fair comparison as the 2.0T quattro only comes with S-tronic now) the quattro weighs 90kg more. if you're telling me that doesn't have a penalty on your economy you're a liar. simple as that.

i've pointed out that there are advantages to quattro, but does it snow every day? no.

do you boot the living crap out of your car every second of every minute? probably not.

do you live on a track? probably not.

when the quattro is at an advantage i've said it's at an advantage. but for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of the time you're lugging around 90kg for no reason.

as i've stated in permanent 4WD cars like the A4 that's a penalty i'd be willing to take. in an A3 i can live without it.

 

[akash_sky1]

you're bound to disagree - you have a quattro lol.

according to the A3 brochure, when you compare the 2.0 TDI and 2.0 TDI quattro (the only fair comparison as the 2.0T quattro only comes with S-tronic now) the quattro weighs 90kg more. if you're telling me that doesn't have a penalty on your economy you're a liar. simple as that.

i've pointed out that there are advantages to quattro, but does it snow every day? no.

do you boot the living crap out of your car every second of every minute? probably not.

do you live on a track? probably not.

when the quattro is at an advantage i've said it's at an advantage. but for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of the time you're lugging around 90kg for no reason.

as i've stated in permanent 4WD cars like the A4 that's a penalty i'd be willing to take. in an A3 i can live without it.

90 kg will have some penalty in economy of course, but as a percentage of the total weight- 1380-1450 ish it is not a huge amount. When accelerating slowly in town or on a dual carriageway, or when already at a steady speed, that 90kg weight penalty will have little effect in the big scheme of things.

Also given that most of the power (95% approx) is going to front under these conditions, again there is little penalty in economy from increase drag in most conditions.
I think most drivers with a 2.0T or even 2.0TDI would certainly prefer a haldex- due to the fact you can use pretty much all your power in almost all conditions when you want to. Granted it does not snow here much in the UK but it does rain LOADS!! And in such wether you will see many drivers inaderventently wheelspin on set off even with relatively mundane cars.
Try set off briskly in a FWD 2.0TDI - when entering a roundabout in the rain for example and the wheelspin could certainly bog you down, possibly putting you in someone's path. Even in normal driving haldex in our country/climate is very useful.
A full torsen set up in an for A4 S4example does allow much more dynamic power transfer but has a much bigger weight and economy penalty- more like 150KG and 4-5 MPG , which is not the case with a haldex.

PS right now 50% of my drives are very brisk and I certainly could not put up with endless wheelspin from the front. If it was a RWD however that's a different story.

 

[PaulAr]

you're bound to disagree - you have a quattro lol.

according to the A3 brochure, when you compare the 2.0 TDI and 2.0 TDI quattro (the only fair comparison as the 2.0T quattro only comes with S-tronic now) the quattro weighs 90kg more. if you're telling me that doesn't have a penalty on your economy you're a liar. simple as that.

i've pointed out that there are advantages to quattro, but does it snow every day? no.

do you boot the living crap out of your car every second of every minute? probably not.

do you live on a track? probably not.

when the quattro is at an advantage i've said it's at an advantage. but for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of the time you're lugging around 90kg for no reason.

as i've stated in permanent 4WD cars like the A4 that's a penalty i'd be willing to take. in an A3 i can live without it.

You can live without it because youve never lived with it.
Try running a powerful Haldex car and THEN say you wont miss it.

Ive had lots of fast 2WD hatchbacks over the last 15 yrs, and now have a fast Haldex. Believe me, it makes a HUGE difference.

Dont believe all that rubbish about `not proper 4wd`. Own them back to back and will know that this view pure mis informed internet myth.
Yes, A3/S3 quattro runs predominantly FWD,.... UNTIL the front looses traction, then drive goes to the back, which is when you want it.
Which is the whole point, right?

So, Do you need 4wd? Maybe not.

Does it make a significant difference over FWD? Absolutely mate.
Fact.


Cheers
Paul

 

[Sarah's A3]

Got to agree with Paul. I'd never be without it now. Its not just useful in snow. Unless you have driven one and lived with it, you wouldnt know for sure, its awsome. Extra weight is next to nowt!

 

[NHN]

You can live without it because youve never lived with it.
Try running a powerful Haldex car and THEN say you wont miss it.

Ive had lots of fast 2WD hatchbacks over the last 15 yrs, and now have a fast Haldex. Believe me, it makes a HUGE difference.

Dont believe all that rubbish about `not proper 4wd`. Own them back to back and will know that this view pure mis informed internet myth.
Yes, A3/S3 quattro runs predominantly FWD,.... UNTIL the front looses traction, then drive goes to the back, which is when you want it.
Which is the whole point, right?

So, Do you need 4wd? Maybe not.

Does it make a significant difference over FWD? Absolutely mate.
Fact.

Couldnt of said it better myself, also been in same boat as Paul, fwd gti's, vr6's for years, then into the S3 8L for 7 years, S4 B6 for 2, now back to fwd with the A3 8P, I can assure you it makes a huge difference & you dont have to be booting it everywhere, on a track, in snow to appreciate the system when its in use.

I know one road I drove regularly, the A21 coming of at Tonbridge turning to goto Southborough, that curves round tightly to the right & using a quattro round there was sublime, but fwd certainly made you think twice at certain speeds, thats just one example of many everyday situations where it was handy to have 4wd.

It is me Paul or is this De ja Vous from few weeks ago, seems we're repeating the same things to the same people.

 

[One Spoke]

You can live without it because youve never lived with it.
Try running a powerful Haldex car and THEN say you wont miss it.

Ive had lots of fast 2WD hatchbacks over the last 15 yrs, and now have a fast Haldex. Believe me, it makes a HUGE difference.

Dont believe all that rubbish about `not proper 4wd`. Own them back to back and will know that this view pure mis informed internet myth.
Yes, A3/S3 quattro runs predominantly FWD,.... UNTIL the front looses traction, then drive goes to the back, which is when you want it.
Which is the whole point, right?

So, Do you need 4wd? Maybe not.

Does it make a significant difference over FWD? Absolutely mate.
Fact.


Cheers
Paul

Amen! Enough said and couldn't agree more with Paul.

 

[sub39h]

yeah definitely deja vous, but it seems that my argument is balanced. i accept the merits of both systems, and am happy with my lot (which is actually almost exactly the same wording i used last time) whereas the Haldex argument seems to be "i've mapped my car therefore it's necessary". that's neither balanced, nor does it apply to the majority to which i'm referring to. you may have owned the car, but as with any argument a balanced account is more respected by me than one which basically states "i know better than you so listen" which i accept may not be your intention but that's the way it comes across sometimes.

i've stated on numerous ocassions that if you're driving particularly quickly or on a track or you have put somewhere in excess of 220bhp in the car then Haldex has it's advantages and i'd certainly prefer it. however for most of my driving i wouldn't.

and yes i've not owned one, and i accept that it may change my opinion if do own one. and i'm planning on doing a track day with a few mates in a few months time and i'm sure that on the track i'd prefer having it, but on my drive to and from the track i'm almost certainly at a massive advantage without it.

i'd also like to point out that whilst akash_sky1's argument on fuel economy may hold true on the motorway where he rightly points out the major factor is drag and therefore the uncoupled Haldex won't have a massive penalty on fuel economy, in town driving he wrongly states it won't make a difference. your car is least efficient moving from a standing start i.e. town driving. please refer to Newton's laws of motion if you don't believe me. getting a body moving is a lot harder than keeping it moving. here that 7% odd weight increase will make a huge difference. (practical demonstration - pushing your car is v difficult at first, but it's not that hard to keep it at speed.)

all of the above rules change with a proper 4WD system. the A4/A5 and now the A6 and A8 all have a 40:60 rear bias, but permanent 4WD. you're not waiting for the fronts to go "oh crap" and react. as stated i'd have an A3 without Haldex, but i wouldn't even think about a FWD car from any of the other classes.

and having owned an RWD car i do agree that it's the best of the lot for driving fun, but on balance i'd prefer the Torsen quattro.

 

[akash_sky1]

yeah definitely deja vous, but it seems that my argument is balanced. i accept the merits of both systems, and am happy with my lot (which is actually almost exactly the same wording i used last time) whereas the Haldex argument seems to be "i've mapped my car therefore it's necessary". that's neither balanced, nor does it apply to the majority to which i'm referring to. you may have owned the car, but as with any argument a balanced account is more respected by me than one which basically states "i know better than you so listen" which i accept may not be your intention but that's the way it comes across sometimes.

i've stated on numerous ocassions that if you're driving particularly quickly or on a track or you have put somewhere in excess of 220bhp in the car then Haldex has it's advantages and i'd certainly prefer it. however for most of my driving i wouldn't.

and yes i've not owned one, and i accept that it may change my opinion if do own one. and i'm planning on doing a track day with a few mates in a few months time and i'm sure that on the track i'd prefer having it, but on my drive to and from the track i'm almost certainly at a massive advantage without it.

i'd also like to point out that whilst akash_sky1's argument on fuel economy may hold true on the motorway where he rightly points out the major factor is drag and therefore the uncoupled Haldex won't have a massive penalty on fuel economy, in town driving he wrongly states it won't make a difference. your car is least efficient moving from a standing start i.e. town driving. please refer to Newton's laws of motion if you don't believe me. getting a body moving is a lot harder than keeping it moving. here that 7% odd weight increase will make a huge difference. (practical demonstration - pushing your car is v difficult at first, but it's not that hard to keep it at speed.)

all of the above rules change with a proper 4WD system. the A4/A5 and now the A6 and A8 all have a 40:60 rear bias, but permanent 4WD. you're not waiting for the fronts to go "oh crap" and react. as stated i'd have an A3 without Haldex, but i wouldn't even think about a FWD car from any of the other classes.

and having owned an RWD car i do agree that it's the best of the lot for driving fun, but on balance i'd prefer the Torsen quattro.

Yes but in town your not accelerating THAT hard so an extra 90 kg will make pittance difference...also its not just a mapped car or when fast driving, as we've all pointed out it helps in every day situations also.

 

[sub39h]

Yes but in town your not accelerating THAT hard so an extra 90 kg will make pittance difference...also its not just a mapped car or when fast driving, as we've all pointed out it helps in every day situations also.

well according to Audi's own fuel figures, which i accept are not a reflection on reality but due to their laboratory nature provide a controlled example with which to compare two vehicles, the 2.0 TDI FWD has a 7.5% - 10% improvement in fuel consumption across the board. so clearly your judgement on the lack of impact of the 90kg on the fuel economy is incorrect.

in regards to the every day examples you cite, i'm not saying that i disagree with them, just that there are others where FWD has it's advantages - a big one being fuel economy but there are others. i'm not saying that your opinion is wrong, but i seem to be getting the impression that you're saying my opinion is. and that isn't really backed up by the examples you're using.

 

[Sarah's A3]

Good job we can choose what we buy eh! If you dont mind carrying around an extra 90kg it doesnt matter! And if thats all that puts you off, choose a non quattro. No point arguing over this, everyone has different points/opinions and experiences.

 

[akash_sky1]

Yes each to their own I suppose....Regarding economy when I used to commute to work I could get over 40mpg in mine..on standard or GIAC map