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  1. #1
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Porting my head will i.....

    Hi all,
    I have ported the oem exhaust manifold which has taken quiet a long time almost finished,but while the head is off and sitting on the bench looking at me there is a lot of dead flow i suppose you could call it on the exhaust ports and since the manifold is done why not a.
    DO I DONT I will it be worth the work.


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  3. #2
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    You want to do the rest ie inlet and full port and i'm happy to do it for you as i've done many now

    Just opening the port at the end won't do much
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  4. #3
    S3 all the way Baby

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    I was thinking that alright,I know its very time consuming work if i was to send you my head stripped what sort of money would you charge and how long would it take.
    PM please thanks
    PaulyPaul

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  5. #4
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
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    450 inc P&P back and could take about 2-3 weeks, i'll have to send it out of house for skimming though
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
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  6. #5
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    TBH, the cheapest option to a 'ported' head is to hunt down a large port head... already flows pretty much as well as a ported small port and you can then port that giving more flow again...

    One thing to remember is that no matter what you do, the small port inlet mani on an S3 is restrictive... not just due to it being small port but the injector ports intrude into the runners squeezing flow...

    Not quite sure how I am going to get around this on mine yet other than getting an after market inlet mani such as the SEM

    Difference between a small port and large port inlet mani..


    Ported small port (back), non ported large port (front)


    <tuffty/>
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  7. #6
    vetch's Avatar
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    That is one hell of a furking difference! I don't want to hijack the thread, but why aren't all the manifolds large port? Why did Audi change it? Cost?
    Audi S3

  8. #7
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Small port = higher air speed = better low end torque... comprimise is high end flow but seeing as the K03/K04 isn't a flow monster then its the best head for most of the market... gives the car better drivability etc

    <tuffty/>
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  9. #8
    S3 all the way Baby

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    There really is some difference in the inlet ports how about the exhaust side Tuffty?
    I was looking for a agu,aeb head but gave up,i have started to port my AMK head looks a bit tricky but there is no turning back now with the right tools and lots of patience i reckon ill get it done to a standard ill be happy.
    The head is in the dishwasher as i write this LOL
    PaulyPaul

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  10. #9
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulypaul View Post
    There really is some difference in the inlet ports how about the exhaust side Tuffty?
    I was looking for a agu,aeb head but gave up,i have started to port my AMK head looks a bit tricky but there is no turning back now with the right tools and lots of patience i reckon ill get it done to a standard ill be happy.
    The head is in the dishwasher as i write this LOL
    This should help....

    AUDI 1.8T 20V SMALL PORT Stock valve size
    Stock:
    INT. 167cfm @ .380" valve lift
    EXH. 162cfm @ .380" valve lift

    Ported: (potential flow)
    INT. 225cfm @ .380" valve lift
    EXH. 191cfm @ .380" valve lift

    AUDI 1.8T 20V LARGE PORT Stock valve size
    Stock:
    INT. 200cfm @ .380" valve lift
    EXH. 184cfm @ .380" valve lift

    Ported:
    INT. 243cfm @ .380" valve lift
    EXH. 212cfm @ .380" valve lift

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  11. #10
    S3 all the way Baby

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    What ya reckon Tuffty have i gained hp or lost it,a buddy of mine a mechanic also,thinks i have ruined the manifold still not finished but ya get the idea.
    PaulyPaul

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  12. #11
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Not sure there is enough metal on a K04 mani to really go to town on tbh... you appear to have broken through the casting too.... its looks like you have removed the partition of the 'collector'... this is designed to help channel exhaust gas to the turbine housing, reduce exhaust pulse collision and helps spool and flow etc.... on this mani its not in the best place but without one then exhaust gas pulses from each of the cylinders will collide and this will cause the pulse to loose energy...

    While this is fairly irrelevant on a piss poor mani design like this and a small turbo like the K04, every little helps

    Sadly there is not much else that can be done for the K04 and arguably the K03 mani has a better chance of flowing more than the K04 one... mani's for K03's are more obtainable, bigger market.

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  13. #12
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulypaul View Post
    What ya reckon Tuffty have i gained hp or lost it,a buddy of mine a mechanic also,thinks i have ruined the manifold still not finished but ya get the idea.
    well thats fcuked now is'nt it

    added another hole too? (at 8 o'clock position)

    yowza - thats some hideous butchery

    you know they crack for a pasttime in std form let alone wafer thin ground away to within a micron of its life

    scarey

    good luck with that
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  14. #13
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Ya thats what my buddy said more or less.any how i have spent so long at it now i have to put it on see what happens i suppose.Its not the first time i broke through the casting ill build it back up again with weld.
    Time will tell....
    PaulyPaul

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  15. #14
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
    Quattro ist für sissies

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    Port and polishing can give you very good performance increases and increase your volumetric efficient by a couple of % + higher the air flow speed (all pulse tuning).

    It can be very easy to make things worse too. Air flow is very sensitive to direction changes and volume changes and you can actually direct the air flow to the wrong place if not done right.

    Has anyone actually flow tested a standard and port and polished head or inlet manifold. I got some figures from a fiesta Zetec S head I done a couple years back in uni. Would be interesting to see.

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  16. #15
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    well thats fcuked now is'nt it

    added another hole too? (at 8 o'clock position)

    yowza - thats some hideous butchery

    you know they crack for a pasttime in std form let alone wafer thin ground away to within a micron of its life

    scarey

    good luck with that
    Not Fcuked just yet,Thats a NO i take it on the gains then Bill
    PaulyPaul

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  17. #16
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulypaul View Post
    Not Fcuked just yet,Thats a NO i take it on the gains then Bill
    the manifold is too thin to cope with removing material imho, let alone the way and amount you have chewed off with the carbide bit bouncing about.
    the runner themselves are small, not just where the collector is.
    I fear it will end badly for you as the pictures make it look dire to me
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  18. #17
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
    Quattro ist für sissies

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    the manifold is too thin to cope with removing material imho, let alone the way and amount you have chewed off with the carbide bit bouncing about.
    the runner themselves are small, not just where the collector is.
    I fear it will end badly for you as the pictures make it look dire to me
    Do agree about removing material, may lead to a crack in the mani if you go crazy and remove too much as the material will become weaker.

    Practise on a rubbish head/mani from the scrappy, thats what I done and made a mess at first lol.

    You see why getting it done professionally is expensive lol
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  19. #18
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    the manifold is too thin to cope with removing material imho, let alone the way and amount you have chewed off with the carbide bit bouncing about.
    the runner themselves are small, not just where the collector is.
    I fear it will end badly for you as the pictures make it look dire to me
    Worst case scenario it cracks and i have to replace it,ya i did get a bit carried away but ill clean it up and build it back up with weld.If a performance mani was available for right money i'd jump on it.

    You live and learn......
    PaulyPaul

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  20. #19
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    Do agree about removing material, may lead to a crack in the mani if you go crazy and remove too much as the material will become weaker.

    Practise on a rubbish head/mani from the scrappy, thats what I done and made a mess at first lol.

    You see why getting it done professionally is expensive lol
    It was my first attempt i will admit,It is definitely a labour of love
    PaulyPaul

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  21. #20
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Keep at it though Paul, I did say there are some great benefits couple of threads above when you get it right.

    Its somewhere you do need patience to do and a lot of practice

    Nathan
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  22. #21
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Well after getting slated last night i had to redeem myself some what,I realise now that i could be wasting my time but i have started so ill finish.
    So i got up early while the missus was asleep and snuck off to the garage,
    the Mani still Isn't finished i have only done it in the 60 the rest will follow when i get the right tools.
    The darker spots in the middle is where i went through and welded the other side.

    Only done in 60 will go more though

    I know its not pretty but you wont see it.
    PaulyPaul

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  23. #22
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Fair play mate, hope it all holds together for yah... looks like the JBS mani is gonna be out soon, Sandip managed to bag one somehow!

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  24. #23
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    Fair play mate, hope it all holds together for yah... looks like the JBS mani is gonna be out soon, Sandip managed to bag one somehow!

    <tuffty/>
    Thanks..
    Ya the Jammy fcuker! I"d bin my one in the morning if i could get one.
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  25. #24
    RIP S3dave

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    what did you weld it together with?
    what rods/wire?
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  26. #25
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    what did you weld it together with?
    what rods/wire?
    Rods for most of it and mig for the hard to reach area.
    PaulyPaul

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  27. #26
    RIP S3dave

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    well it looks better, but my fears for its longevity stand

    i did explore extrude honing the k04 manifold last year, but seeing so many std ones cracked thru killed that idea, as its not a sound base to ask more of it from thinner wall thickness. It always cracks in the same place, which is stress related on its design,, simply making the wall thickness thinner, to me, just erodes it already poor reliability.

    good luck tho.. a lot of work for you to replace it if it cracks
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  28. #27
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    well it looks better, but my fears for its longevity stand

    i did explore extrude honing the k04 manifold last year, but seeing so many std ones cracked thru killed that idea, as its not a sound base to ask more of it from thinner wall thickness. It always cracks in the same place, which is stress related on its design,, simply making the wall thickness thinner, to me, just erodes it already poor reliability.

    good luck tho.. a lot of work for you to replace it if it cracks
    I know what your saying but ill give it a try anyway,i dont mind the work its what i do.
    I surprised you haven't made one up surly you have the equipment and know how there definitely is a market out there for one.
    PaulyPaul

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  29. #28
    RIP S3dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulypaul View Post
    I know what your saying but ill give it a try anyway,i dont mind the work its what i do.
    I surprised you haven't made one up surly you have the equipment and know how there definitely is a market out there for one.
    the k04 manifold is a big compromise in fitment vs airflow
    TSR, INA and JBS both are coming out with something one day (dont hold ya breath mind, they have both been saying this for months now)

    I investigated the extrude hone option myself, and shelved the idea when I kept seeing stock k04 manifolds cracked in the same location.

    Cast option is the best for volume vs what you guys are prepared to pay.
    I do BT conversions, which use merge collected tubular manifolds, but these are high end high power conversions.

    good luck with yours.
    Do you have logs from before to compare any differences?
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  30. #29
    S3 all the way Baby

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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    the k04 manifold is a big compromise in fitment vs airflow
    TSR, INA and JBS both are coming out with something one day (dont hold ya breath mind, they have both been saying this for months now)

    I investigated the extrude hone option myself, and shelved the idea when I kept seeing stock k04 manifolds cracked in the same location.

    Cast option is the best for volume vs what you guys are prepared to pay.
    I do BT conversions, which use merge collected tubular manifolds, but these are high end high power conversions.

    good luck with yours.
    Do you have logs from before to compare any differences?
    TSR are looking 700 for there one and JBS about 470,if i could get a jbs one id be happy as the price is reasonable.
    No logs but i will be heading straight for Badger 5 when its done so you can remap it for me.
    PaulyPaul

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