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  1. #1
    mark_sarah's Avatar
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    Panel or Cone filter?

    Looking at modifiying my S3, and starting with the airfilter.
    K&N or Piper?
    Cone or Panel?

    What is the best to go for?
    What results have been proven?

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  3. #2
    Sandip's Avatar
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    Filters don't make much difference performance wise, the standard paper is fine for around 300bhp i think, most people go for the Green panel filter with a stage 1 map
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  4. #3
    mark_sarah's Avatar
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    I'm looking at a stage 2 map, and don't really want to change the filter twice. So what would you recommend?

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    I run the OEM airbox/Green panel filter on a big turbo with no problems...

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  6. #5
    mark_sarah's Avatar
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    Cheers tuffty..

  7. #6
    Chugger

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    Im waiting on a pipercross panel filter, was 15 cheaper than the green cotton. Should be reeeet
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

  8. #7
    JS1500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportstractor View Post
    Im waiting on a pipercross panel filter, was 15 cheaper than the green cotton. Should be reeeet
    I've got a Pipercross panel, seems to work well and gives a nice intake noise.
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  9. #8
    JD09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_sarah View Post
    I'm looking at a stage 2 map, and don't really want to change the filter twice. So what would you recommend?
    If it helps, JBS Auto do a package, incorporating panel filter, remap and Forge 007p for around 350. Based on 75 for the Forge, 300 for the remap and 50 for the Green Cotton filter, that's quite a good deal!

  10. #9
    S3BAM's Avatar
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    If you decide to go for Cone ive got a as new Jetex 45 delivered..

  11. #10
    mark_sarah's Avatar
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    That sounds ok, but what is the best filter to go for?

  12. #11
    Chugger

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    there is no best, but people just stand by what they have got. Green cotton seems popular, so is k&n. But its a myth that the oil in those filters can contribute to the deterioration of the maf sensor, hence why i have gone for the pipercross. Biggest factor was price for me, 35 for pipercross, or just over 50 for greencotton... a no brainer.
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

  13. #12
    ALPINE's Avatar
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    i run a simota filter with a cold air feed and a heat shield. I have no problems other than more response from the throttle, a nice tiiish sound from the 007 dumping and a deep induction barble. looks nice and shiney too!
    Last edited by ALPINE; 4th May 2010 at 20:01.

    Now to many mods to list! Lots of power, torque and Leather!

  14. #13
    mark_sarah's Avatar
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    looks nice

  15. #14
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Im running a Jetex cone and it sounds ace. So much turbo spool sound.



    Very popular filter and im getting 188 g/s (235 bhp) MAF values on a standard map.

    It improved my air flow over standard filter by about 6-8 g/s (7.5 - 10 bhp)
    Last edited by S3 Nattie; 4th May 2010 at 22:54.

  16. #15
    S3KO4's Avatar
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    Heat soak? I think it would run btter for the first 5 mins then due to heat soak it will loose power, unless you had proper heat shield. looks nice though I bet it sounds nice as well.
    S3-8L REVO stage 2, Milltek, 3" DP & custom 3" decat, RS2 spark plugs, 4 bar FPR, Green-Cotton uprated upper/lower boost hose & TIP, Front Zimmerman & Ferrodo. LCR spliter. boost gauge, smoothed AB. Aero blades, H&R 5mm spacers. Best time 14.03sec, 0-62 in 5.7sec. 207gs @ 25psi , polished inlet mani. VAGCOM 805.1

  17. #16
    ALPINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3KO4 View Post
    Heat soak? I think it would run btter for the first 5 mins then due to heat soak it will loose power, unless you had proper heat shield. looks nice though I bet it sounds nice as well.
    gotta agree..... this is why i moved mine to where it is.it was fine on the move but noticed sluggishness after sitting on the M25 for any longer than 10 mins!!! so i tucked nicely out the way. i can only imagine what a S3 sounds like as mine sounds like its about to suck the pavement up when you toe it!
    Last edited by ALPINE; 4th May 2010 at 23:04.

    Now to many mods to list! Lots of power, torque and Leather!

  18. #17
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    I havent got a heat sheild or air feed and never experienced heat soak really as of yet.

    Still going to get an air feed in there soon though.

  19. #18
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    Nattie that looks quite nice, i've always been against cone filters but i may have to purchase one of those
    3.2 V6 with Custom Code VVT Attack Software


  20. #19
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    I wanted it for the sound really and it does sound ace. I found it gave me a few more g/s also over standard filter.

    Done some logging tonight and got a max of 188 g/s on a standard map which is pretty good I think.

    Get one from Bill, you will love the sound if thats what your after

  21. #20
    ALPINE's Avatar
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    nattie how do i find out the gains from my kit? im unsure on all this Gs shizzle

    Now to many mods to list! Lots of power, torque and Leather!

  22. #21
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    g/s (grams of air per second). Thats the MAF value from vagcom (block 003) Log it with the standard setup, I would do 3 runs and take the average then do another 3 run with your new setup and compare the averages.

    This will show if you are getting more air flow through the new setup

  23. #22
    ALPINE's Avatar
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    cool thanks.. it would be nice to have some kind of proof in writing so to speak. It deffo feels alot better than it did with my performance Panel filter. i will have a play at some point.

    Now to many mods to list! Lots of power, torque and Leather!

  24. #23
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    your air filter is larger than that on a B5 RS4. the paper item flows (on an RS4) 380bhp standard and 440bhp ish when remapped.

    i think youre S3 will be fine on a paper filter, and it will filter properly

  25. #24
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    The inlet to the S3 airbox is the main restriction tbh... I replaced mine with 4" ducting...









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    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  26. #25
    mark_sarah's Avatar
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    I'm still none of the wiser! Looking at piper cross panel filter, because there is no poven fact that one is better than the other. But i now see comments that indicate a cone filter is best, even without heat shielding.!!!!

    Your modification sounds logical Tufftybloke, have you compared the difference on paper.?

  27. #26
    finesse's Avatar
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    All tried and tested and proven that there are no major performance gains which warrant spending any money on performance filters. Just a placebo effect and a nice sound.

    Save your money for a remap/suspension or getting decent insurance
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  28. #27
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    I had a Pipercross filter but didn't oil it... filtration was fine but without oil it cannot filter out really fine particles of dust and dirt and I found I had a thin layer of dust inside the intake tract on my car... I have since changed this to a Green Filter panel and have had no issue since... Foam filters have a tendency to degrade and bits of foam flake off and find their way into the inlet tract... this can potentially damage the turbo...

    While a light oiling of any 3rd party panel/cone filter shouldn't cause problems, an oiled filter CAN deposit an oily film on the MAF element and cause premature failure or at the least inaccurate readings unless cleaned or replaced. I had this issue with a warranty return of an Audi supplied MAF that they did not honor due to an after market filter being fitted (the pipercross at the time).

    People say they this is a myth but the fact is oil can be deposited onto the MAF and this tends to be when the owner has either re-oiled or topped up the oil on a panel filter and over done it... The Green Filters come pre oiled so there is no need to apply any for 10's of thousands of miles IIRC... Pipercross and I think the K&N have to be oiled as they are supplied dry and this is where the issue can arise...

    Simply fact is, OEM panel filter/OEM airbox can flow enough for any stage 1 map but people change them as aftermarket filters have longer service intervals and provide better induction/DV noise in general.

    Cone filters are prone to sucking up the hot air from the engine bay but are as unrestricted as you can get... a bit of shielding and cold air feed sorts most of these short falls out...

    I am planning on doing some tests myself once Bill has his dyno up and running as I am interested to see what extra airflow can be got from using a cone filter over my current setup especially once I fit the large port head and sort the charge pipework out...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  29. #28
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post





    <tuffty/>
    Paul where to does that feed go to. That's what I want but cant find a decent air feed. Behind the grey inserts would be good.

    Personally I when for a cone for sound only but when I got it I did have some gains in air flow which is a plus as most say they make your car run worse due to heat soak, which I haven't really had.

    I would go for a cone and if you don't like it get a panel. You will probably be able to sell the cone for good money on ebay. I had a green cotton cone and sold it for more than I paid for it on ebay lol.

  30. #29
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    Mine currently ends just before the headlight..


    There wasn't enough space to get to down to where the passenger side SMIC was but I am looking to review this when I have a go at rejigging the FMIC pipework to see if I can get a better cold air feed in...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  31. #30
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    Oh ye. I think im going to try that. I when to B&Q the other week and the ducting was really expensive lol. Where did you get yours from and how much.

    The S3 is very restricted around that area. Be good to see how close you can get it to the inserts

  32. #31
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    I got mine from ebay... search for cold air ducting

    <tuffty/>
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  33. #32
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    Tuffy thats the same set up as i have on my A3,but i have smoothed out the airbox and de-meshed the MAF.My air feed goes to the bottom of the front bumper.
    Not sure what to get next tho,green cotton panel filter or cone filter???.

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  34. #33
    S3 Nattie's Avatar
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    How did you get it to the bottom of the front bumper, what route did you take.

  35. #34
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    I used to have a Green Cotton panel filter and then went for a BMC kit. Alot of people start debates about the BMC kit as it's apparently very restrictive. I don't find it restrictive at all! I love it and would never give up on it. I've had both types of filters so i know how it is. The sound from the BMC is awesome! Lots of whoosh from the dv
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  36. #35
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    My S3 has FMIC pipework in the way, if you don't have a FMIC then the SMIC will be in the way so its nigh on impossible to get a 4" feed down there... Ess_Three managed it on his S3 but his pipe work was a little different to mine so managed to find the extra room.

    An A3 should be easier as there is more room on the passenger side... no pipes or SMIC's to worry about...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Troopa View Post
    I used to have a Green Cotton panel filter and then went for a BMC kit. Alot of people start debates about the BMC kit as it's apparently very restrictive. I don't find it restrictive at all! I love it and would never give up on it. I've had both types of filters so i know how it is. The sound from the BMC is awesome! Lots of whoosh from the dv
    S3 George had a BMC on his car when Bill had it in for mapping his hybrid... got a substantial increase in airflow by changing it to a cone filter 5 to 10g/s IIRC, (Bill will know for sure) which is the rough equiv of 6 to 12 bhp worth of airflow...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  38. #37
    luke2702's Avatar
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    Does the green cotton filter require oiling? Just fitted and was just wondering.

    Thanks
    2002 S3 8L, FORGE 007, R-TECH RE-MAPP, MILTEK CAT BACK NON-RESONATED, JETEX CONE FILTER AND 260 BHP ISH.......

  39. #38
    JD09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    The Green Filters come pre oiled so there is no need to apply any for 10's of thousands of miles IIRC...
    <tuffty/>
    ^

  40. #39
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    Missed that!!
    2002 S3 8L, FORGE 007, R-TECH RE-MAPP, MILTEK CAT BACK NON-RESONATED, JETEX CONE FILTER AND 260 BHP ISH.......

  41. #40
    JD09's Avatar
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    No worries pal

    Pretty sure I will just take JBS up on their offer, seems silly not to. Means the filter will be one less thing to think about come MOT/Service time and as Paul says, will last for a good while without needing an oil.

 

 
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