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  1. #1
    JD09's Avatar
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    Can I use Billy B8s without lowering springs?

    Quote from DPM's website;

    "Shortened shocks with a reduced rebound of 30mm-40mm"

    I'm looking for better handling from the S3 and intend on spending a few quid on her after summer (remap package from JBS, new brakes/fluid etc). The last thing I want, however, is a bone crunching ride, and last time I asked, Damian suggested ARBs. Hopefully got these (Neuspeed) sourced second hand from a member off here (fingers crossed Jonathan!).

    Could I use B8s as well as the ARBs, but without lowering springs?

    Many thanks,

    James

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  3. #2
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    You'll get better handling from B8's and the right springs than you will with OEM springs and ARB's

    My car has been transformed with B8's and springs tbh... going to fit the R32 ARB's at some point to finish it off but they only put the cherry on the top tbh...

    If budget is an issue, spend the money on B8's and either H&R 25mm springs or Apex 30mm springs and save for the ARB's later

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  4. #3
    JD09's Avatar
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    Ah OK appreciate that chap.

    So you would go for B8s with a decent set of springs (do you mind me asking what you are running?) over the ARBs?

    I think I am getting bored of the car's handling, rather than the power. The car is superb, but just feels like a heavy boat. I really don't want to loose the comfort of it - how "crashy" are the B8s Tuffty?

    Many thanks!

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    Alex C's Avatar
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    I think im going to go B8s and the H&R 25 mm springs. I have Neuspeed ARBs siiting in my room waitingto go on as well
    Alex S3 AMK
    Bilstein B8s, H&R Springs, Neuspeed ARBs, Genuine 18" BBS LMs & LCR Brembos

  6. #5
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD09 View Post
    Ah OK appreciate that chap.

    So you would go for B8s with a decent set of springs (do you mind me asking what you are running?) over the ARBs?

    I think I am getting bored of the car's handling, rather than the power. The car is superb, but just feels like a heavy boat. I really don't want to loose the comfort of it - how "crashy" are the B8s Tuffty?

    Many thanks!
    Yes, go B8's/springs first... it will be like a new car...

    I am using B8's and Apex springs. I used to have Eibach Pros on but didn't like the ride height... too high.... changed them to Apex 30mm and happy with the way she sits..

    The Apex are a little firmer and will occasionally crash when faced with a really bad pothole but that is quite rare... I think 30mm is about the limit of the B8's... I would like to have tried the H&R's though as they are supposed to be a good paring...

    Ride wise its as close to OEM as you will get. The coil overs I had on my A4 were very stiff compared... the B8's feel like the OEM ride until you turn into a car of course then its superbly planted.

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  7. #6
    JD09's Avatar
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    Appreciate that Tuffty, I'll look to get that little lot on first!

  8. #7
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    im running B8`s , H&R`s and R32 ARB`s gives a very nice ride even on 19`s
    red to red black to black blue to bits

  9. #8
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    James i was running b8s with eibach -25mm spring with standard wheels and the ride quality is superb. The shocks are quite soft about town( not soft but very comfortable) when you start to wind it on they really start to work. I have not long put 18s on my car and the ride quality is not as good, not a great change but a change.

    I decided to go with the billys over coilovers as i hate the slammed look and they handle better than most coilovers. Money well spent i my eyes
    52 plate black s3,Star performance remap, 18" bbs lm reps, adjustable tie bars, bilstein b8s, eibach springs, forge 007p, panel filter, covered in rg55

  10. #9
    JD09's Avatar
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    Re: Can I use Billy B8s without lowering springs?

    Quote Originally Posted by putang
    James i was running b8s with eibach -25mm spring with standard wheels and the ride quality is superb. The shocks are quite soft about town( not soft but very comfortable) when you start to wind it on they really start to work. I have not long put 18s on my car and the ride quality is not as good, not a great change but a change.

    I decided to go with the billys over coilovers as i hate the slammed look and they handle better than most coilovers. Money well spent i my eyes
    Thanks fella. Appreciate that.

  11. #10
    DPM
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    If you want to change the dampers but keep standard springs go for the Bilstein B6, basically a standard length version of the B8.

    Give me a shout if you'd like a set or for anymore info.

    Damian @ DPM Performance
    DPM Performance
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    W: www.dpmperformance.co.uk
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  12. #11
    JD09's Avatar
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    Thanks Damian.

    What are the pros and cons? If I will see a marginal improvement with standard springs and the B6, as opposed to spending a further Ł200 on springs, I might as well spend the extra. . .

    Any advice appreciated.

  13. #12
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    The B8's give better damping on lowered springs... personally I would stick to tried and tested B8's + H&R's..

    FWIW, there was an 03 plate S3 on 18" RSTT's parked next to mine at Bill's last weekend that was on std suspension.... it looked like a monster truck...

    If you are less bothered about the height, I would go for the Eibach Pro springs... its what I had originally with my B8's and the ride was superb, the handling transformed but being a tart I wasn't happy with the way the car sat and wanted to go a little lower..

    http://www.dpmperformance.co.uk/eiba...199-p-160.html

    Cheaper than H&R too...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  14. #13
    DPM
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    Personally I'd say as mentioned go for the H&R's or alternatively the Eibach Pro's.

    Damian @ DPM Performance
    DPM Performance
    The premier online suspension and performance specialists
    W: www.dpmperformance.co.uk
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  15. #14
    JD09's Avatar
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    Height is not something I am bothered by, Tuffty. Been there, done that (grounding/tearing bumpers off etc).

    I will have a look, Eibach have a very good name with Renault stuff so might be worth considering.

    Cheers to both.

  16. #15
    fingermouse's Avatar
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    I also wasn`t bothered about lowering my S3 but did and it doesn`t look low or feel like other lowered cars ive driven. -25mm seems just right
    red to red black to black blue to bits

  17. #16
    JD09's Avatar
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    Sorry to bump this again. I really am stuck here. Damian has (very kindly) quoted me for the following options;

    B6s delivered

    B8s, H&Rs and Forge tie bars delivered

    Now I've found out I need new rear shocks, but don't want to spend 1k+ on modding the car just yet. So do I go with the B6's now, or buy standard shocks (at 41+VAT a side) for the MOT in Sept, then buy the whole hog after Xmas?

  18. #17
    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD09 View Post
    Sorry to bump this again. I really am stuck here. Damian has (very kindly) quoted me for the following options;

    B6s delivered

    B8s, H&Rs and Forge tie bars delivered

    Now I've found out I need new rear shocks, but don't want to spend 1k+ on modding the car just yet. So do I go with the B6's now, or buy standard shocks (at 41+VAT a side) for the MOT in Sept, then buy the whole hog after Xmas?
    Get in touch with 08080808 who is a user on here. He has some rear shocks I'm pretty sure that he may post to you for some dollar.

    His profile is here: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/member.php?10706-08080808

    Give him a PM and ask. They're not new, but should tide you over for the MOT and then you can do the upgrade as and when.

    If not, see if anyone else has any.

    Simples.
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  19. #18
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    i dont think anyone would recommend anything other than replacing dampers in pairs or upgrading them in all fours otherwise you could get some very odd damping effects.


    do you want to go for B6 or B8? you can get the four dampers and put the springs on those. if you buy the springs LATER, then youll have to pay the labour all over again just to fit the springs.

    what will you gain from B8s over B6?

  20. #19
    JD09's Avatar
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    Thanks to both, Welly PM's included pal.

    Matt, B6 is the standard shock size, whereas B8 is for lowering springs upto 30-40mm. So standard springs and B6s or H&R springs and B8s.

    How much difference will uprated shocks make, over springs? I know a lot of people just go springs . . . so do they have a greater effect, or is it just because they are cheaper?

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    it is not as simple as that really. i take it your rear dampers are in a pretty bad state?

    if you think about the function of the damper, it controls the movement of the spring. your dampers sound like theyre past their best and the result is when the spring recoils the damper cannot control the movement and hence the floaty/underdamped sensation.

    if you put OE springs on uprated dampers, the ride could be a bit harder due to the uprated damper only having to control an OE spring rate. it wont be the end of the world though, i would definately consider it.

    uprated springs on OE or WORN OE dampers is a really bad idea. the under performing spring cannot control the rebound of the harder spring making the ride a real mess and can easily end up being dangerous. id avoid this tbh

    i dont think people do it because of a graeter/lesser effect (because most people just want it to look decked), as you read above, the spring and damper have to work in conjunction with eachother.

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    I also have to say that I have Eibach springs (std dampers) and don't like the way the car sits - front I am ok with but the back is still too high. Having said that, the ride is absolutley fine.

    Tufty - do you remember where you got your Apex springs from?

  23. #22
    JD09's Avatar
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    Thanks Matt. I am not considering just springs, but the B6 sounds like the best middle ground. I don't need it lower, IMO it looks just fine. As said, coilies vs Clio = been there done that, have the broken spine to prove it.

    I think a little less rebound would not be a bad thing and yes the rears are getting pretty shot, so are likely to be doing nothing but hindering the ride/aiding the boaty feeling.

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    spot on then... just dont go changing your mind in the future and decide to lower it as itll be the same cost all over again to fit them!

  25. #24
    jojo's Avatar
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    I think you are doing more damage to your car by driving around with a knackered rear shock, change it asap if I was you! MOT is a long way away in September, so wouldn't worry about that until then mate.



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  26. #25
    JD09's Avatar
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    Interested in fitting them? lol.

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    im always game for fun and games with car stuff. want me to give you a shout next time im in northwich?

  28. #27
    JD09's Avatar
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    Let me give you a shout when I get my arse into gear and buy the damn things.

    Tenner yeah?

  29. #28
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    and the rest (pack of skittles, hell yeah!)

    where are you getting the billies from?

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I think you are doing more damage to your car by driving around with a knackered rear shock, change it asap if I was you! MOT is a long way away in September, so wouldn't worry about that until then mate.
    Will do Joe and thanks for the PM!

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt82 View Post
    and the rest (pack of skittles, hell yeah!)

    where are you getting the billies from?
    Probably Damian. Been very good so far, instant replies and seems to be the cheapest!

    Tenner and a packet of skittles it is pal.

  31. #30
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    I've the same setup on my car JD. B8's/H&R with Neuspeed ARB's only difference is I went for powerflex bushes on major suspension components and Comp Brake race spec top mounts. Some people here have said powerflex bushes on certain parts of the suspension cause problems but i think it's all nonsense as my car is stiff, smooth, non crashy and very nice to drive around a corner!

    Good luck with whatever you go fo, you'll see a huge improvement in the car, try to do it all at once if you can afford to. I did and it made one hell of a difference.

    G

  32. #31
    JD09's Avatar
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    That's what I'd like to do fella, but I modded my last car so heavily I hated it at the end and wished I'd saved my money - could have bought a better car years ago.

    The shocks on the rear need doing, so almost forced into a better setup (shhhhhhhame ). But I don't like the idea of springs, dampers, tie rods etc etc totalling over 1k + fitting.

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    seems odd that you ended up hating it. when it comes to modding this and that you need a really clear idea of what youre trying to achieve, dont just mod things because its what the rest of the board does. my s4 for example, i wanted to keep that was simple and unfussy as possible, with a fair bit of shove to make it a giggle, hence i didnt bother trying to sharpen it up into a race car

    what is your ultimate goal for the car?

  34. #33
    JD09's Avatar
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    It was a Clio Matt. I wanted it lowered and to gain better handling. Ended up with new top mounts, bushes, steering rack, wishbones, wheel bearings every 5k etc etc. 500Ł coilovers = Ł1000's in bills. Car eventually felt unsafe on motorways.

    With the Audi I need the following;

    Remap for some extra poke, better brakes as currently shot and less body roll. That's it. Couple of minor interior bits, like iPod adaptor, bluetooth and armrest and that's it.

    I bought the S3 for it's looks, comfort and go - but that's not to say I don't occasionally wish it would handle like the "on rails" Clio.

  35. #34
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    see, the last set of coilovers on my golf were Ł700+. current ones are Ł600+ equipment (eibach prostreet and spax rsx) and that hasnt lead to tears yet. i think you got unlucky. the reality of it is that you can easily go OTT and ruin a car (unsilenced exhausts for example!)

    as for your criteria, definately need the remap, thatll get you a whole bundle of bhp. new dampers and bushes are a must given the age of the car etc. i think id be more inclined to go for uprated springs over ARBs. uprated springs will reduce roll big time, its a well trodden route.

    brakes, just slightly uprate the OE stuff, youll be fine unless youre planning to treat every trip to the shops as a qualifying lap!

  36. #35
    JD09's Avatar
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    Thus far the shopping list is;

    B6/B8,etc,etc + sorting possible bushes issue at the front end causing vague feeling

    New discs and pads all round (Brembo/Black diamond + DS2500s front, standard rears)

    CC remap package from JBS.

    Other than that, it's tidying bits like painting calipers, refurbing wheels, couple of chips need painting. Wonderful being happy with a cars looks and not needing to change anything else!

  37. #36
    martin g's Avatar
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    if your still after opinions?? How about a set of B6's and a new set of OEM springs? that would be around Ł700 i guess? I dont think the ride height standard is too high at all, it is if your used to low, or love slamming down but it isnt high as such. As i mentioned once before, i cannot allow my car to look boy'd in any way so that is what I will be doing soon, B6's and new OEM springs that is.

  38. #37
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    but with OE springs hell still have OE roll. the lower ride height isnt just about looks, the cenrte of gravity is shifted, it resists roll more which changes the response of the car.

  39. #38
    JD09's Avatar
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    Cheers Martin. Standard springs appear OK thus far. I have booked in a check of the suspension at a highly reputable VAG specialist near me to see what the issue at the front end is. I guess the rest of the shopping list will be answered by that! I know I need new dampers, but if the usual cracked spring issue hits mine as well, H&R route will be taken.

  40. #39
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    http://www.motorsportworld.co.uk/det...177&PID=257260

    why not somethign like that?

    sorts the damping, reduces the height a bit and uprates the springs. koni is very reputable.

  41. #40
    JD09's Avatar
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    Honest answer, no idea why not. Apart from tried and tested Billies and been down the cheap/get what you pay for route . . .

 

 
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