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  1. #1
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    Revo stage 3 remap to custom remap

    Hi,

    I bought my car a couple of months ago it was just a spur of the moment thing but to this day i am still happy with my purchase. The thing is i hardly know anything about engines and how to modify or what to modify. I was told the car has a stage 3 revo map on it and i was given a receipt for it aswell along with a rolling road chart. The previous owner advised me to get a custom remap done and it would increase the bhp quite abit. Would you say what he said is right? How much more gains could i expect to see?

    The car is a A3 1.8T Quattro W-reg

    Currently on the car is a T28 Hybrid turbo, 550cc injectors, bigger intercooler. custom powerflow exhaust, stage 3 remap and a few other bits.

    Where would be the best place to take the car for a custom remap?

    Cheers

    Ibs

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  3. #2
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    Bill at Badger 5....

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  4. #3
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    whats the bhp and torque at the moment?

    Audi A3 1.8T Sport (AGU) - 2000
    Engine: Carbonio CAI/Jetex JR Hybrid Induction, Forge 007p DV, Forge TIP, Longlife S/S Custom Exhaust system, R-Tech Stage 1 Remap, Creation Motorsport Boost Pipe Kit.
    Exterior and Chassis: 18" Cades Tyrus, Euro Wipers, low on JOM Coilovers, Eibach Front & Rear ARB's, Black Angel Eye Headlights, 6000K HID's, S3 Brakes.
    For Sale PM ME - £2500 Mods Inc

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    The last rolling road chart i've got for it says 237.2HP with 278ft/lb

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post
    The last rolling road chart i've got for it says 237.2HP with 278ft/lb
    Has it got forged rods fitted?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Has it got forged rods fitted?
    Nop no forged rods fitted

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    wouldnt just a stage 1 remap reach them figures? whats the idea with the stage 3 then?

    am i right in saying itll be the same as a stage 1 until u get the shiny bits to make the most of it?

    Audi A3 1.8T Sport (AGU) - 2000
    Engine: Carbonio CAI/Jetex JR Hybrid Induction, Forge 007p DV, Forge TIP, Longlife S/S Custom Exhaust system, R-Tech Stage 1 Remap, Creation Motorsport Boost Pipe Kit.
    Exterior and Chassis: 18" Cades Tyrus, Euro Wipers, low on JOM Coilovers, Eibach Front & Rear ARB's, Black Angel Eye Headlights, 6000K HID's, S3 Brakes.
    For Sale PM ME - £2500 Mods Inc

  9. #8
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    drive by wire car?

    T28?

    less power than a K04 makes?
    why would someone bother doing this?
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    less power than a K04 makes?
    why would someone bother doing this?
    Seems a lot of hassle to go through for not a great deal of gain.

    However, I would of thought it had potential.

    Wary of standard internals though....
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    See thats what i was thinking. Its got had all those bits done to it plus a k&n typhoon induction kit and S3 BAM throttle bodies and inlet manifold and i'm sure theres more i've missed out aswell. Surely it should be running more than 237HP rite?

    So do you think a custom map will sort that out? Also i have been thinking of getting the internals upgraded but don't know where to start or what to go for. Any recomendations?

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post
    k&n typhoon induction kit
    Remove this and install a cone filter. Enclosed induction kits are very restrictive on the 1.8T, especially with a larger turbo. Get a Jetex cone filter from Bill at Badger5.

    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post
    So do you think a custom map will sort that out?
    Depends on what you mean by sort it out. REVO Stage 3 is generic, I think that there would be more to come from the engine with the mods you have listed. Have a chat with Bill at Badger5.

    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post
    Also i have been thinking of getting the internals upgraded but don't know where to start or what to go for. Any recomendations?
    IE Rods are very highly rated on this forum. I use them and have no complaints at all. You can get a set from (wait for it).... Yes! Bill at Badger5. Last known price to me was 320 including VAT. This varies with the exchange rate though, as they come from the states.

    Depending what engine you have, the gudgeon/wrist pins may be 19mm or 20mm. If 20mm, then all you need is those rods - everything else will be forged. You will need new big end shells though, which are 50 - 80 depending on where you get them.

    Here is an image of the uprated item vs. stock:



    Drop Bill an email at sales@badger5.co.uk.
    Last edited by Welly; 22nd April 2010 at 12:20.
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  13. #12
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    If it's a T28 from a Nissan SR20DET then it should be capable of 300HP. To be fair though a lot of Garrett GT series turbos use a T28/T25 flange so I'd try to identify exactly what turbo you have first.

    A Pulsar GTI-R will produce around 300HP at 1 bar of boost on the OEM T28. If it's a hybrid then I'd imagine you'd see some good figures from it with a suitable tune.

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    Cheers Welly i really appreciate your help. Looks like Bill at badger5 is the man to see then.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    If it's a T28 from a Nissan SR20DET then it should be capable of 300HP. To be fair though a lot of Garrett GT series turbos use a T28/T25 flange so I'd try to identify exactly what turbo you have first.

    A Pulsar GTI-R will produce around 300HP at 1 bar of boost on the OEM T28. If it's a hybrid then I'd imagine you'd see some good figures from it with a suitable tune.
    I'm not exactly sure what model of the T28 i've got on there. I've got the orginal invoice from turbo technics for the turbo but all it says is
    1.8T T28 Hybrid turbo then underneath its got
    AUDI A3 180BHP T28 conversion.R163

    Does the R163 mean anything?

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post
    Does the R163 mean anything?

    Not that I know of but you could call Turbo Technics as it could be their ID for the hybrid.

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    what boost does it run to get the 230bhp you have now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    what boost does it run to get the 230bhp you have now?


    Am i right in saying peak boost was 23psi?

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post

    Am i right in saying peak boost was 23psi?
    Yes, but that dyno states peak BHP was 198.8 which seems a bit strange.

    That's not really much help if trying to figure out what the boost is to get you to current BHP...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Yes, but that dyno states peak BHP was 198.8 which seems a bit strange.

    That's not really much help if trying to figure out what the boost is to get you to current BHP...


    Ive also got this printout but it does not tell me what boost it was running

  21. #20
    Welly's Avatar
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    Bit of a pain that...

    That's a big difference in output between the first and second graph, and the reason could be more boost....
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  22. #21
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    Adding to the above - 23 psi is quite high anyway, a little under 1.6 bar.
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  23. #22
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    I was thinking it could be absolute pressure but that makes it only about 8.5PSI/0.6bar boost!?

    It does seem like a massive amount of boost if it is a decent sized turbo.. doesn't add up somehow.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    I was thinking it could be absolute pressure but that makes it only about 8.5PSI/0.6bar boost!?

    It does seem like a massive amount of boost if it is a decent sized turbo.. doesn't add up somehow.
    Na, that would take atmospheric pressure into account.

    I agree, it is quite a sizeable spike.
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    I'm getting confused now. So what are we trying to say from these printouts?

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    I've just got off the phone to the previous owner of the car and what he said was that the stage 3 map is limited to a certain bhp. Is this true?

    Also if i were to get a custom map put on would i 100% have to upgrade the engine internals? Or what bhp are standard internals good til?

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post
    I've just got off the phone to the previous owner of the car and what he said was that the stage 3 map is limited to a certain bhp. Is this true?

    Also if i were to get a custom map put on would i 100% have to upgrade the engine internals? Or what bhp are standard internals good til?
    Limited? Hmmmmmm. Not sure about that pal - I wouldn't totally discard it but I've not heard of that before. A stage 2 map on an S3 (And you've got a bigger turbo than an S3) will see you to around the 270 BHP mark.

    Internals. Well there a can of worms to open. Some good experiences, some bad. I personally think Audi were an utter bunch of c**ts for taking a forged crank, and forged pistons, and then joining them using sh*te rods.

    Some people run quite big power on standard internals and have no worries. Some people run stage 1 power on standard rods and bend them. Me being one of them.

    This is what you are trying avoid:



    This is what came out of my S3. That was BIG bucks to fix the damage that it did. Much cheaper to pre-empt the issue by fitting forged rods BEFORE you get to the point that you may bend them. Bits snapped off the block inside, and snapped rods sticking out of block isn't a pretty sight.

    Have a peruse through this: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthr...-More-S3-Drama and see if it something you would rather avoid.
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    Ok on second thoughts maybe i should get them changed. So your saying the crank and pistons will be fine and just to change the rods? Is there anything else i should change just to be on the safe side?

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by legal_ice View Post
    Ok on second thoughts maybe i should get them changed. So your saying the crank and pistons will be fine and just to change the rods? Is there anything else i should change just to be on the safe side?
    Everything else should be top banana pal.

    It's just those rods that are a bit sketchy...
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  30. #29
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    as spotted by tuffty, the DD plot is @ wheels on boost plot and calc flywheel on the other

    no where near the 300 thought possible, despite the reasonable boost running
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  31. #30
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    Am I right in saying this is Dyno Dynamics who showed max around 230bhp for most the S3 stage 1&2, as you some of you guys had group gathering & print of your RR at some point with them, and the T28 managed 237, so that makes it around 270bhp on other optimistic RR. i.e. AMD as it is doubted by most on here.
    S3-8L REVO stage 2, Milltek, 3" DP & custom 3" decat, RS2 spark plugs, 4 bar FPR, Green-Cotton uprated upper/lower boost hose & TIP, Front Zimmerman & Ferrodo. LCR spliter. boost gauge, smoothed AB. Aero blades, H&R 5mm spacers. Best time 14.03sec, 0-62 in 5.7sec. 207gs @ 25psi , polished inlet mani. VAGCOM 805.1

  32. #31
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    as i said, you have no more than a remapped std S3 would have from this hybrid..

    you sure its a hybrid?
    stock manifold?

    whats the install look like, got any pictures?
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  33. #32
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    OEM T28 spec just for reference (this relates to the later GT spec not the earlier TB spec)..

    http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...R_466541_1.htm

    I would imagine it would be something like this or the conversion would just be pointless.

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    I can't see how at that much boost it wouldn't be producing 300+ HP??

  35. #34
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    If you have VAGCOM handy maybe do some logging and post up the results... be interesting to see whats happening relative to airflow/fuelling/boost.... if the fuelling is out then that would affect the final power...

    <tuffty/>
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    I can't see how at that much boost it wouldn't be producing 300+ HP??
    on his dyno plot boost its between 25-30lb of compressor flow

    Garrett say: "As a very general rule, turbocharged gasoline engines will generate 9.5-10.5 horsepower (as measured at the flywheel) for each lb/min of airflow"

    237bhp - 315bhp range using the above extremes of airflow and calculation

    online comparison calculation:

    to get lb/min to g/s which is what you can log with the vag-com from your mass air flow meter
    25lb/min = 189g/s
    30lb/min = 226g/s

    log yours with vag-com and report back

    host of compressor maps here>> http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Garrett_compressor_maps

    292g/s - 367bhp for tuffty by the rule of thumb from garrett
    Last edited by badger5; 23rd April 2010 at 12:01.
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  37. #36
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    Nice one.. useful information

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    ....292g/s - 367bhp for tuffty by the rule of thumb from garrett
    ....another 30g/s to find somewhere then lol

    <tuffty/>
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  39. #38
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    dump the daft 50mm pipe section... cant hurt
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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    dump the daft 50mm pipe section... cant hurt
    I am compiling a list mate.... want it all done and dusted, 60mm pipe work, head and the other bits

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    I am compiling a list mate.... want it all done and dusted, 60mm pipe work, head and the other bits

    <tuffty/>
    Naaaaaa..... Stuff the OE look and get some bit, fat, shiny 76 mm pipes sticking out the front.....
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