Chris NottJMB Retrofits
Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    34

    AMK or BAM engine?

    im looking at a facelift S3 amk but have heard the BAM engine is better, is there any truth in this?

  2. # ADS
    ADS
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many
     
  3. #2
    Y83OLK's Avatar
    Hulk Smash!

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    838
    BAM has 15hp more out of the box.
    However with a remap you wont tell the difference.

    I have heard AMK's are stronger, but dont quote me on that.

  4. #3
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    210
    Agreed, My AMK doesnt have a SAI.... ive also heard there more sought after.
    2006-7 Audi S3- 99...Sold
    Honda CBR600RR...Sold
    2009-10 Audi S3 01...Sold
    Suzuki GSX-R 1000 + Suzuki RM-Z450.... KEEPING
    2011 Wants another S3...........

  5. #4
    3rd Gear

    Status
    Online
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sunny Suffolk
    Posts
    552
    AMK is lower tax and insurance I believe.

    Both remap the same.

    HTH,

    ICE

  6. #5
    SamiG's Avatar
    On Boost, ish.

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    231
    Sorry, what is an "SAI"?

  7. #6
    2nd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gosport, Hants
    Posts
    367
    Quote Originally Posted by SamiG View Post
    Sorry, what is an "SAI"?
    I think it stands for Secondary Air Injection. When air is injected into the exhaust for emissions purposes. Maybe wrong, someone on here will know.
    2003 Dolphin Grey S3, with a few mods....

  8. #7
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    210
    Thats right, A common mod for ppl to remove them.

    the AMK isnt cheaper for TAX yet.... but no difference after MAP
    2006-7 Audi S3- 99...Sold
    Honda CBR600RR...Sold
    2009-10 Audi S3 01...Sold
    Suzuki GSX-R 1000 + Suzuki RM-Z450.... KEEPING
    2011 Wants another S3...........

  9. #8
    SamiG's Avatar
    On Boost, ish.

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    231
    I was going to go for the 225 BAM over the 210 AMK purely because of the power difference but the insurance premium is a good few hundred difference, so i guess i would be better going for a 210 AMK if they both have the same final figure after a map?

  10. #9
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    210
    i think there is some internal difference ontop of the power figure aswell.

    Someone much wiser will post soon........

    Waits with baited breath !
    2006-7 Audi S3- 99...Sold
    Honda CBR600RR...Sold
    2009-10 Audi S3 01...Sold
    Suzuki GSX-R 1000 + Suzuki RM-Z450.... KEEPING
    2011 Wants another S3...........

  11. #10
    MURRAYS444's Avatar
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    789
    Think the difference would only be tax I dont think the insurance would be affected to much its whos driving it at the end of the day!!!

  12. #11
    SamiG's Avatar
    On Boost, ish.

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    Posts
    231
    Well a quote for a 210 is 850 FC for me and the 225 is 1,200 FC :/

  13. #12
    g60leigh's Avatar
    5th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Stockton on Tees
    Posts
    1,389
    are there any difference in the internals between the two models?

    2001 S3 (AMK)
    AEM WMI Kit, Black Silicone Hoses, Badger5 TIP with Cone Filter, AH Fabrications FMIC, Relentless Manifold Downpipe & Sport Cat, Miltek Cat Back Exhaust, VAG Aero Wipers, Forge FMDV008 Re-Circ, Revo Stage 2 Remap with SPS+ Tweaks, 2.0 TFSI Coil Pack Mod, B&M Short Shift, RNS-D Retrofit, Brembo & B5 2 Piece Rotor Conversion

  14. #13
    fran-s3's Avatar
    5th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,090
    Can anyone confirm the AMK has no Secondary Air System, I never knew that? Does it restrict power having one? I have a AMK so am chuffed lol!

  15. #14
    Welly's Avatar
    VX220 SC Driver :)

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    10,695
    AMK definitely has no SAI.

    There is a power difference between the AMK and the BAM out of the factory - AMK is 210 and BAM is 225.

    However there is next to no differences in internals at all, and both engines WILL have the same power output after a stage 1 map.

    See here - most useful. http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthr...-8T-Info-Sheet

    IMO, the AMK is a better choice as you get more bang for your buck from a remap.... lol.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Marriage is like a coffin and each kid is another nail."
    Homer Simpson





  16. #15
    Welly's Avatar
    VX220 SC Driver :)

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    10,695
    Quote Originally Posted by fran-s3 View Post
    Can anyone confirm the AMK has no Secondary Air System, I never knew that? Does it restrict power having one? I have a AMK so am chuffed lol!
    SAI is a bag of balls - I've taken mine off. It' a bloody great big air pump secured to the block, with a bit which pumps warm air into the head on cold start to help the cats warm up faster.

    Wowzers, I just made a mess in my trousers.

    To my knowledge, the APY engine was the only one to feature this festering turd of a design, the AMK and BAM don't have it - which to my mind suggests how useless it is!

    EDIT: The SAI comes on a few others too actually, oh joy of joys.
    Last edited by Welly; 4th March 2010 at 10:03.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Marriage is like a coffin and each kid is another nail."
    Homer Simpson





  17. #16
    JS1500's Avatar
    Howdy

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Granite house, Granite City.
    Posts
    1,167
    Wowzers, I just made a mess in my trousers.
    And they wonder why you keep dressing like Elvis.
    2001 Audi RS4 2.7 Bi-Turbo - Nogaro Blue

    1975 MG Midget 1500 - Tahiti Blue

    2003 Audi S3 - Dolphin Grey; SOLD!

  18. #17
    finesse's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    London / Anglia
    Posts
    2,814
    Insurance
    AMK group 17
    BAM group 18

    As said above, more bang for your buck with an AMK.
    Remaps the same
    Ibiza Cupra TDI

    Gone:

    Audi C5 RS 6 - Stage 2
    Audi 8L S3 - Revo'd

  19. #18
    Welly's Avatar
    VX220 SC Driver :)

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    10,695
    Quote Originally Posted by JS1500 View Post
    And they wonder why you keep dressing like Elvis.
    Just don't step on my yellow suede interior, uuuuuuuhhhuhhhh.

    (as being dragged away into a wood panelled station wagon....)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Marriage is like a coffin and each kid is another nail."
    Homer Simpson





  20. #19
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Milk n Beans (Milton Keynes)
    Posts
    109
    How do I know if my engine is AMK or BAM?
    X reg year 2000
    210 engine but facelift body...

    Been custom code stage 1 remapped by previous owner (no dunk test..)
    What power should it be kicking out? (no other mods. Yet...)

  21. #20
    Dane's Avatar
    Faster than a V12 Q7

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cheltenham
    Posts
    4,003
    facelift x reg will more than likely be an AMK, healthy remap figures should be around 250 BHP and FTLBs

  22. #21
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Milk n Beans (Milton Keynes)
    Posts
    109
    Cheers Dane, yeah checked the logbook it's November 2000 AMK
    How did u find the B5 TIP on your S3? I've asked Bill to sort me one out plus the jetex cone filter...

  23. #22
    Dane's Avatar
    Faster than a V12 Q7

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cheltenham
    Posts
    4,003
    I was the test mule for the v1 tip and the difference is Suuuuuwweeeeet you wont regret it

    Early AMK's are where it is lower tax and facelift.

  24. #23
    rhubarb4's Avatar
    Certified Jardo Slayer

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    1,715
    AMK FTW
    <img src=http://cdn.as-static.com/vb/images/smilies/scared2.gif border=0 alt= title=Scared2 class=inlineimg />
    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    i wear ladies underwear to work.

  25. #24
    Andrew@A.L.D's Avatar
    Cylinder Head Master

    Status
    Online
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    3,469
    Are AMK's norrowband or wideband?
    RIP S3dave/David Marshall stickers now available
    FOR SALE
    Sparco Torino 2 sport seats, None resonated Milltek exhaust,
    Adjustable FPR from 1-5 bar, 2 sets of Unused ARP 3/8 2000 rod bolts, relentless 200 cell cat pipe, Std AGU Crankshaft. Ported & Reconditioned Cylinder head service.

  26. #25
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
    Badger 5 Edition

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    15,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    Are AMK's norrowband or wideband?
    Wideband... same as BAM's...

    APY is narrow band

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  27. #26
    beachbuggy's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    1,744
    Amk suffer from cracked cylinder heads's I know people will say no they don't but I've just seen my 3rd one this year! Oddly enough the sai is on most of the later model a4's , it's crap..remove it.

  28. #27
    warren_S5's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    7,163
    Taken from a SEAT forum where they were comparing the variant s of LCR, but assume its the same deal?

    Engine Diffrences:

    210 is an AMK Engine code, 225 is BAM.

    210bhp/199lbft vs 225ps/208lbft. Both cars remap to practically the same. The 210 is actually 212ps, and the 225(ps) is actually 222bhp.

    ECU Code for the 225 has an “A” on the end.

    There were always rumours that the 210 had stronger internals (20mm wrist pins and different rods), but it seems that this rumour stemmed from the early Audi S3 APY engine (also 210bhp) having stronger rods. However, in an AMK build thread someone measured the gudgeon pins for us, and they are 20mm. The later BAM engine are supposed to have 19mm wrist pins.

    From ETOS and ETKA the block and piston set for AMK :06A 103 101 J and for the BAM : 06A 103 101 J, conrod for AMK : 027 198 401 B, conrod for BAM : 027 198 401 B.

    Both engines have VVT, but this is apparently for emissions rather than a VTEC style torque/power shift. Originally we thought the VVT actuation was different (one mechanical the other hydraulic) but we now understand them to be the same. Again, it is the APY (early 210 S3 engine, never fitted to the LCR) that has mechanical VVT actuation and possibly where the rumour started. Both AMK and BAM have Electro-hydraulic VVT actuation.

    Been searching, thanks to our friends in the TT and Audi world, it seems that it's the early S3 210 engine, coded APY had the mechanical VVT and 20mm gudgeon pins.

    Also, it seems the AMK and BAM have a valve that "electrically allows oil pressure from the oil pump to adjust the cam timing on the inlet camshaft". Sounds Hydraulic to me, but some people refer to it as electrical.

    APY was the early S3 engine (210), followed by the "Facelift" engine (there was a facelifted S3) which was the AMK, later a further engine, the BAM was introduced. There seems to be a few other differences between the APY and the later engines - it seems mostly emissions stuff, extra lambda sensors, a change from the K04-20 to the K04-23 (which is essentially the same, but has an extra sensor) and the switch from Mechanical to Hydraulic/electrical VVT actuation all related to control, and perhaps larger injectors on the AMK/BAM. It seems the ECU changed to the me7.5 on the AMK/BAM

    So, it seems there's no fundamental difference between the AMK and BAM engines

    The turbo (K04-23 from Borg-Warner), manifold & exhaust are all the same.
    Audi S5 3.0V6T Coupe Black Edition

  29. #28
    Gops's Avatar
    6th gear @7000rpm

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Coventry
    Posts
    2,634
    I do know that the injectors on the APY are different to the AMK. Not sure if they're larger though..
    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    its either mapped or broken...

  30. #29
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
    Badger 5 Edition

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    15,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Gops View Post
    I do know that the injectors on the APY are different to the AMK. Not sure if they're larger though..
    Same cc's but have a 'nose'... (EV12), AMK/BAm are EV6

    APY/AMK/BAM all have 20mm pins...

    APY didn't have VVT in any form... uses the same chain tensioner as the rest of the non VVT based engines... SAI was used in place of... although some modern variants run both SAI and VVT...

    210/225 blocks are supposed to have stronger/thicker webbing but not looked close enough to confirm/deny

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  31. #30
    beachbuggy's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    1,744
    Quote Originally Posted by <tuffty/> View Post
    SAI was used in place of... although some modern variants run both SAI and VVT...


    <tuffty/>
    So they can be used in the US OF SMOG FREE A. Well california to be fair.

  32. #31
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    131
    How much power/torque/boost stock BAM engine can stand?

    Bought S3 with 360hp / 420Nm paper, but I doubt that..
    Today mounted boost gauge and it shows just 1bar so I dont think that it would produce that much power with GT2871R, 3", front mount IC etc.
    I guess that last owner dynoed some nice paper and after that reduced the boost.

    Also wondered some strange ~8mm output on intake pipe between maf and turbo, next to by-pass. Its DIY pipe so does the original pipe have that with some purpose or is it some mistake..?

  33. #32
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by vanilla_ice View Post
    AMK is lower tax and insurance I believe.

    Both remap the same.

    HTH,

    ICE
    agreed APY 99-00 is same tax and insurance group(17) and should be had for that reason alone but AMK(2001+) is wideband lambda more tuneable(more tax also as is its on or after 2001 emission laws) but APY is upgradable for about £100 ecu and a part of a loom and a wideband lambda sensor

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO

Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO