Oil Catch Can mini group buy anyone? including PCV system simplification.

[OllieH]

Hi all.

With having a few problems with my PCV vacuum system lately, I've been doing alot of research into making the system simpler, and less prone to blockages/leaks etc. I came across this thread recently from uk-mkivs.net, which explains completely removing the vacuum system and replacing it with a catch tank, which then leads into the TIP through the original PRV (Hockey Puck Valve):

http://uk-mkvs.net/forums/t/269734.aspx?PageIndex=1

It seems like a very good idea to me, and benefits from not allowing the oily vapours from the crankcase and rocker cover to pass back into the TIP and into the engine, coating everything with oil (Something i don't want on my new silicon TIP and my FMIC when I get it).

In the thread, the author uses the following oil catch can from the US. It has a 19mm (3/4") inlet and outlet, which is very hard to get hold of in the UK, without getting one custom fabricated, and allows you to fit 19mm internal diametre pipework without the need of reducers etc. It also looks pretty oem, so will not stand out in the engine bay like many other catch tanks.

http://www.saikoumichi.com/951_page.htm

I have contacted the company who supplies the can and the price for a single can is $105 (£70) + $30 delivery (£20), which works out quite expensive at £90 delivered. However, they also said they would do 2-3 cans at $90 each (£60) at the same shipping cost. So if 3 were ordered, total would be £200 delivered, split 3 ways would be £67, which is quite fair I think, considering the prices of the good ones in the UK. They would all be delivered to the same address, and would then need to be sent on from there. I am willing to take on this role, and I would imagine it would cost a further few quid to send them on, so maybe £70 in total. Would anyone be interested in doing this?

I will probably get one for myself regardless (dependant on whether I can get one custom fabricated for less), but thought I would see if anyone wanted to do likewise and bring the price down abit, seeing as though vacuum leaks in the PCV system seem to be quite common on here.

If interested please reply to this thread. Unfortunately, they will not do more than 3 at a time, but if there is more than 3 people interested, I'm sure a seperate mini group buy could be set up for the remainder.

Pictures of the can fitted on the 1.8T can be seen on the thread linked at the top of this post.

Cheers.

 

[S3 Rav]

this is something i have been reading on. will this particualr brand work on all s3 engine codes?

 

[1animal1]

Ollie thats a damn good read...im interested...not sure about the price of the can versus a £25 ebay jobby...yes no reducers but 60% price increase for the privilege...any discount for more than 3 as i think you may be onto something here

also curious as to how ours would work, the brake breather is on the other side....before the 'puck' valve and out of the crank case are two pipes, one goes to the bottom of the engine, the other im not sure? any ideas....

Tim

 

[OllieH]

this is something i have been reading on. will this particualr brand work on all s3 engine codes?

Yes, the catch tank would work on all cars with 19mm ID pipework as far as I'm aware. It's the routing of the pipework which will differ slightly from car type to car type, which shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[Imteyaz]

I'll be interested in this too Ollie (infact I'll probably order 2 cans, one for my brother who has an S3). Are the cans that you have in mind got the fixing brackets as their website shows one with and without too. If they are, count me in!

 

[OllieH]

Ollie thats a damn good read...im interested...not sure about the price of the can versus a £25 ebay jobby...yes no reducers but 60% price increase for the privilege...any discount for more than 3 as i think you may be onto something here

also curious as to how ours would work, the brake breather is on the other side....before the 'puck' valve and out of the crank case are two pipes, one goes to the bottom of the engine, the other im not sure? any ideas....

Tim

Compare that to the price of Greddy or Forge however and it's very good. I just had an email quote back from 'Pro Alloy' for £115 +VAT for the manufacture and £11 +VAT for delivery, so I think I will most likely go for this anyway, rather than custom. The saikoumichi one seems to be very good quality and good at seperating the oil, having baffles/tortuous path on the outlet to seperate the oil from the gas. I'm not sure if the Ebay ones have this. Not only that but the ebay ones look cheap and tacky and non oem looking, which is something I don't want. I want the theme of my car to stay standard'ish looking, much like tufftyblokes build, rather than shouting about what I've got fitted to my car, if you know what I mean. There is also alot of discussion on SCN etc that you need the 19mm ID pipework to provide sufficient flow rate in the vent system.

As for the brake vacuum feed, I will just be having a single pipe from the left hand nipple on the inlet manifold, straight upto the servo, making sure there is a check valve in there somewhere. Pretty sure there is one near the bulkhead somewhere, just before it goes into the servo. If not, will just use one from the PCV system, or purchase one. Need to have a look in my engine bay to see what is available to use. Either way, I will be keeping it completely seperate from the rest of the system. The DV and FPR feed nipples on the underside left of the inlet manifold will not change as they are independant, although I will be changing them to silicon. The vacuum pipe on the underside centre of the inlet manifold will be blanked, and that just leaves the crankcase and rocker breather. I was only aware of the one crankcase breather? but will have to look now you have said that. As done in the thread, I will plumb the crankcase breather upto the t-piece, along with a seperate feed from the rocker, and the third outlet of the t-piece will go to the catch can. The outlet of the catch can will then go into the TIP, via the PRV (Hockey puck).

 

[OllieH]

I'll be interested in this too Ollie (infact I'll probably order 2 cans, one for my brother who has an S3). Are the cans that you have in mind got the fixing brackets as their website shows one with and without too. If they are, count me in!

Not sure on the brackets. I will have to ask. I would imagine so as the pics on the linked thread show the exact same bracket on his install.

 

[Imteyaz]

If they (Saiko Michi) can confirm that the brackets are part of the can then I'll definately have 2 Ollie, I'll wait for you to find out!

 

[OllieH]

If they (Saiko Michi) can confirm that the brackets are part of the can then I'll definately have 2 Ollie, I'll wait for you to find out!

Ok, will look into it.

 

[sportstractor]

yeah the system does cause problems, dont think its worth paying that money to remove it. Simply remove it and clean it when servicing it. Pretty sure these are on the service schedule.

anyway, you can get a greddy one for £59.44
http://www.nengun.com/trust-greddy/oil-catch-tank-1000

 

[Plunky]

I have also been doing a lot of research into the use of a catch can as I have a monumental leak from the pcv system. I saw the said catch can from the US, however i was not too keen on the price so i went about modifying a cheap 30 quid ebay jobby.
I bought the catch can from ebay however, the outlets are only 15mm maximum but are interchangable. so i had a little search on the net and have found 19mm hose connectors that will fit into the catch can's 1/2" outlets, therefore no need for reducers. and as the ebay can dosnt come with baffles inside, I did a little research and found you can use stainless steel scouring pads, so a trip to asda and the baffles are sorted.
I feel i have made something that will do exactly the same job as the US catch can for a fraction of the cost.
Hope this helps

 

[OllieH]

Tim,

Just been out to look at the engine bay. As far as I can see there is only the one crankcase breather, although it then splits into two. One goes to the rocker breather, then PRV and TIP, and the other goes upto the 'suction jet pump'. Maybe this is what you saw. If so, will not matter as we will be deleting the suction jet pump. Here's a pic of the bit I mean:

The t-piece in this pic is also the one-way PCV valve. (which we won't need any more)

Also had a look at the brake servo line. There is no check valve up near the bulkhead like I thought, but we can use the one currently in use, shown here: (pic robbed from tufftybloke's thread)

The right hand line is the vac line to the inlet manifold, so the check valve next to it will only flow to the right. The bottom line, shown blanked on the pic, is the current vac line to the brake servo, and the left line goes off to the suction jet pump. We will be deleting the jet pump so we can do just as Tufftybloke has done here, and blank the bottom line, and use the left line for the new servo feed.

Then as before, blank the underside centre nipple on the inlet manifold, with this:

Then it is just a case of plumbing the crankcase breather and rocker breather to a T-piece, and the outlet of the T-piece to the inlet of the catch tank, using the 19mm ID hose, as shown here:

The top connection on the can is the inlet, and the bottom line is the outlet which sends the seperated gases to the TIP via the PRV.

The hose and T-piece can be bought from Ebay, or I have been quoted £40 delivered for a T-piece and 2 metres of pipe from 'Hosequip'. This is the same stuff as used by the bloke in the above pic, and apparently will not degrade over time with oily vapours etc.

 

[OllieH]

yeah the system does cause problems, dont think its worth paying that money to remove it. Simply remove it and clean it when servicing it. Pretty sure these are on the service schedule.

anyway, you can get a greddy one for £59.44
http://www.nengun.com/trust-greddy/oil-catch-tank-1000

Just want rid of the system to be honest. It seems far too complicated for what it does. This way it will also stop oily fumes getting drawn through the TIP, which has an effect on the fuel combustion. The catch can you have linked will need delivery charges on top of it aswell, as they are in Japan? It also has the connections facing downwards. Although not the end of the world, it will make plumbing slightly more difficult. The US one seems alot neater, and has been used many times on uk-mkiv's.net proving to be very good at what it does.

 

[OllieH]

I have also been doing a lot of research into the use of a catch can as I have a monumental leak from the pcv system. I saw the said catch can from the US, however i was not too keen on the price so i went about modifying a cheap 30 quid ebay jobby.
I bought the catch can from ebay however, the outlets are only 15mm maximum but are interchangable. so i had a little search on the net and have found 19mm hose connectors that will fit into the catch can's 1/2" outlets, therefore no need for reducers. and as the ebay can dosnt come with baffles inside, I did a little research and found you can use stainless steel scouring pads, so a trip to asda and the baffles are sorted.
I feel i have made something that will do exactly the same job as the US catch can for a fraction of the cost.
Hope this helps

So £30 plus delivery, plus the different connections, and then the gauze? The US one is only £70 when 3 are bought, so not a huge difference. No need to do any modification and proven to work many times on other forums. Fair play to you for modding it and getting it to work :icon_thumright:. Just want something to plumb in, without having to mod, and knowing it will work.

 

[Imteyaz]

What about the hoses, I'm led to believe that we need about 1.5m and a T-piece. The Hose is supposed to be the type that can handle a little oil and not break down over time like standard hoses, perhaps you could look into that too seeing as you are already working on the catch can groupbuy? We can maybe save a few more pennies on the hose / delivery charges? :icon_thumright:

 

[OllieH]

What about the hoses, I'm led to believe that we need about 1.5m and a T-piece. The Hose is supposed to be the type that can handle a little oil and not break down over time like standard hoses, perhaps you could look into that too seeing as you are already working on the catch can groupbuy? We can maybe save a few more pennies on the hose / delivery charges? :icon_thumright:

The hose and T-piece can be bought from Ebay, or I have been quoted £40 delivered for a T-piece and 2 metres of pipe from 'Hosequip'. This is the same stuff as used by the bloke in the above pic, and apparently will not degrade over time with oily vapours etc.

I will see if Hosequip will supply cheaper with a group buy and get back.:icon_thumright:

 

[1animal1]

so with the hose and T piece we're looking at £100 all in, or there abouts?

 

[1animal1]

as for fitment, where i suggested to Dani seems to be a good spot, bolted to the side of the battery housing....the US can does have a bracket welded to it in the picture..i take it thats standard?

 

[OllieH]

so with the hose and T piece we're looking at £100 all in, or there abouts?

Yep, about right. I have emailed Saikoumichi again about possibly making the group buy bigger and reducing the price some more, so will wait for them to get back. From what I've read on that thread though, I don't think they will.

as for fitment, where i suggested to Dani seems to be a good spot, bolted to the side of the battery housing....the US can does have a bracket welded to it in the picture..i take it thats standard?

Yes, that seems like a good spot. As for the bracket, the part that is welded to the can is included, but the angled bracket piece that bolts to this I'm not sure about (see pic below). I have asked that question on the same email as above, so will wait for them to get back tomorrow. Depending on where we mount it, we may not even need the latter part, but if they include it anyway then happy days.

As for the hose, you can get silicon hose for about £12 per metre on ebay, but how good it is I don't know. This would possibly save about £15. Personally I will be going for the stuff from Hosequip.

 

[Dani_B19]

Best place really tim, unless you running a cone filter there's not alot of room for fitting one in our crowded engines, right pain in da ****.

 

[1animal1]

still need to see pics of yours Dani when you decide to get off ya **** and take some

 

[Dani_B19]

Look ive had alot on tim lol plus 2 crashes havent helped, not been that in love with the s3 lately lol. Ill tidy the engine bay up and take some for you on my week off, for now though is there some in my build thread!

 

[1animal1]

ah thats why we havent got any.... you not cleaned the engine bay...excuses excuses

you need to nip over here at some time mate...let me have a look at your car and let me show you why you need a map

 

[jonny87]

hmmmmm im wanting rid of the pcv valve and install a catch can

a tun seems a bit steep all in though, appreciate it looks the part and is a proper job not an ebay cheapo but still seems a bit ott, having said all that i may well still be interested lol

wont there be import/duty tax to pay on it seeing as its coming from the states?

 

[Plunky]

So £30 plus delivery, plus the different connections, and then the gauze? The US one is only £70 when 3 are bought, so not a huge difference. No need to do any modification and proven to work many times on other forums. Fair play to you for modding it and getting it to work :icon_thumright:. Just want something to plumb in, without having to mod, and knowing it will work.

It works out at about half the price!
Plus when i contacted the guy in the states its going to take nearly 2 weeks to arrive and i needed one asap.
The US ones do look pretty damn good though! proper oem look

 

[OllieH]

hmmmmm im wanting rid of the pcv valve and install a catch can

a tun seems a bit steep all in though, appreciate it looks the part and is a proper job not an ebay cheapo but still seems a bit ott, having said all that i may well still be interested lol

wont there be import/duty tax to pay on it seeing as its coming from the states?

Don't forget that is an all in price. If you bought an Ebay jobby you would end up paying £60/£70 ish once you got all the fittings and hoses etc, and something that would need modding to work. Plus, like alot of things on the BAY, they're not as good as they're meant to be. Just look at the intercoolers! Granted it's a little more than I originally wanted to pay, but if it gets a decent job done then I'm willing to take the hit. I spend alot of money on performance mods, so don't want to cut corners on something that is going to make the engine run better, and is going to stop alot of grief in the future faultfinding the PCV system etc.

As to import tax, I believe that is one of the reasons the US company only post out 3 in any one go, sending as a gift, slipping past the net as it were. There is no mention of paying tax on the linked thread on the original post, and there are quite a few people on uk-mkiv's.net that have bought these.:icon_thumright:

 

[jonny87]

ah i see, i would find out for def about the tax though because u i got screwed over on my last us purchase as they didnt tell me about it

 

[OllieH]

ah i see, i would find out for def about the tax though because u i got screwed over on my last us purchase as they didnt tell me about it

Doubt the company will know. I think it's one of them things where you won't know unless it happens. All I can go by is the people who have bought these as a group buy before and haven't had to pay anything.

 

[jonny87]

ah furry **** dude

 

[Dani_B19]

I will do mate, just hate taking the car to places with the front end smashed in haha, got a replacement wing and light that im hoping to fit on my week off so ill come down and see you, show you how to drive and why i dont need a map haha.

 

[1animal1]

then i'll wake you up - dreamer

 

[Dani_B19]

Haha well see. You working between the 15 to 19th march mate because im off all week!

 

[1animal1]

yeah i am mate, weekends are best for me, Saturday when i wash the car etc

 

[OllieH]

Right then,

have had emails back from Saikoumichi and Hosequip regarding group buys. This was Saikoumichi's reply:

Ok, if there are more I can offer the tanks at $85US each, and let's calculate the postage as $6 per unit until we know how many will ship.
These will need to go to one address also.

and

No one has mentioned having to pay the import tax yet, I don't think it applies on my packages.

So that is now £57 per catch can. Not bad considering the original price was £70, and providing we can get about six I reckon, £4 each for postage. Obviously the postage may vary slightly, depending on how many cans are ordered. Then a few quid extra on top of that for me to post the cans out to everyone and we're looking at about £64 ish.

Unfortunately, they did not answer the question about the bracket being included or not, so have asked that again. Should get that answer tomorrow.




This was Hosequip's reply:

Hi Peter
Could do a group buy deal, if you were looking for about 4+ I could do these for £27+vat. Could get them down to £25+vat for 10+

Thanks
Stu

So, £31.73 inc VAT for 4+, and £29.38 inc VAT for 10+.

This was for the 2 metres of 19mm ID hose, especially for use with oily vapours, plus a suitable T-piece. There will be delivery charges on top of this aswell, but I was quoted about £3 for mine. These can be sent out to individual people aswell, so should be £3 for everyone.

If anyone is interested, please copy and paste the following list, adding your username and what you want. i.e catch can and/or hose:

1. OllieH - Can & Hose

 

[Dani_B19]

Sound, ill try and get down on the 21st mate, that saturday, the car should be fixed up nicely by then , i hope lol.

 

[1animal1]

well txt and remind me closer the time

sorry to steel the thread Ollie...continue mate.....

i'm gonna sleep on this one as want to inspect the bay before deciding

 

[Dani_B19]

Will do mate.

Yeah sorry for the hi jack.

The other place that could be good is behind the airbox, next to the electrical trunking if you get me, only thing is there's the air con pipes in the way.

 

[1animal1]

count me out Ollie for now....ive just booked my summer hols booooo....

 

[OllieH]

count me out Ollie for now....ive just booked my summer hols booooo....

No problem pal.

Will probably leave this group buy open till Wednesday next week. Don't expect many takers, just thought I'd give it a try. I will be ordering one anyway.

 

[Imteyaz]

1. OllieH - Can & Hose
2. Imteyaz - Can x 2 (if the brackets are on there, 1 for me and for for my brother)

There's a hose supplier in an industrial unit close to my workplace that may be able to help, I'll see if they can get the hose too and get some prices off them, £30 for a couple of metres of hose seems a little expensive. If that fails, I'll have no option but to use the groupbuy that Ollie has been working on. Good work Ollie, keep us all posted!