I'm thinking of getting some green stuff brake pads and wondered if anyone else has used them and if are they worth getting?
dummi
smoking a6
i had these on my car once, they actually never faded until i sold the car i forget how many miles i did, but it is recommended u get drilled grooved discs to remove the scaling on the kevlar pads.
i noticed at one time they took a while to warm up, but after changing brake fluid (just standard stuff) they were fine, good and responsive.
though this car was an old 2 litre i'm not sure how they would be on a more powerful car, i think people use red stuff.
cheers
i noticed at one time they took a while to warm up, but after changing brake fluid (just standard stuff) they were fine, good and responsive.
though this car was an old 2 litre i'm not sure how they would be on a more powerful car, i think people use red stuff.
cheers
DavidR
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Groan - all of the common braking misconceptions in one thread!!
You improve your braking by improving cooling and also the pads resistence to overheating. The latter is acheived only minimally by a better pad, but conversely adds more heat to the already overheated brake system leading to fade. The best upgrades are bigger discs, with better cooling design and a larger caliper to distribute pad pressure evenly and avoid hotspots.
The Green Stuff WILL work well with the OEM disc, although they are significantly more abrasive than the OEM pads and can therefore increase disc temps and wear. I would NEVER run them with a drilled disc as you are almost certainly asking for disc cracking around the holes. My view is that a drilled disc is purely cosmetic and this is a view now shared by some of the major brake manufacturers. There IS a role for a slotted disc so long as you can cope with the extra noise that this sometimes creates.
Interestingly, green stuff are no longer recommended by EBC for the S3, they suggest the even more abrasive red stuff is better (and my understanding is that this was due to the friction material delaminating from the backing plate rather than the pad material being at fault)
I would (and did) try a slightly higher temperature pad (any of the fast road pagid / mintex / ferrodo) and you will get some improvement, but so long as the standard sliding caliper is on the car, the difference will always be somewhat subjective.
Finally, I think spending money on aftermarket drilled / slotted / dimpled discs is a false economy as the performance advantage (if present at all) will be limited. If you figure that new pads are £100 and then aftermarket discs £250 ish, you aren't a terribly long way off the Brembo conversion from AmD (which works, and works extremely well.)
You improve your braking by improving cooling and also the pads resistence to overheating. The latter is acheived only minimally by a better pad, but conversely adds more heat to the already overheated brake system leading to fade. The best upgrades are bigger discs, with better cooling design and a larger caliper to distribute pad pressure evenly and avoid hotspots.
The Green Stuff WILL work well with the OEM disc, although they are significantly more abrasive than the OEM pads and can therefore increase disc temps and wear. I would NEVER run them with a drilled disc as you are almost certainly asking for disc cracking around the holes. My view is that a drilled disc is purely cosmetic and this is a view now shared by some of the major brake manufacturers. There IS a role for a slotted disc so long as you can cope with the extra noise that this sometimes creates.
Interestingly, green stuff are no longer recommended by EBC for the S3, they suggest the even more abrasive red stuff is better (and my understanding is that this was due to the friction material delaminating from the backing plate rather than the pad material being at fault)
I would (and did) try a slightly higher temperature pad (any of the fast road pagid / mintex / ferrodo) and you will get some improvement, but so long as the standard sliding caliper is on the car, the difference will always be somewhat subjective.
Finally, I think spending money on aftermarket drilled / slotted / dimpled discs is a false economy as the performance advantage (if present at all) will be limited. If you figure that new pads are £100 and then aftermarket discs £250 ish, you aren't a terribly long way off the Brembo conversion from AmD (which works, and works extremely well.)
Hmm. Yes.
But...Lots of people are (or have) run green stuff pads with great success. Me included.
Like chipping there's a load of tosh regarding info on braking.
Probably the most important aspect is your own driving style.
If you repeatedly fly into corners braking heavily at the last minute, there's little like David says a pad change will do to solve the performance/wear of a the standard disc, standard calliper and performance pad.
But if like me, you're more of a leisurely drive, who rarely uses the brakes, and would prefer the engine to do most of the braking. The performance pad upgrade is very useful. The oem pad are inadequate - fading if a braking force is applied for any lenghth of time - making high speed motorway exits a scary experience. The greenstuffs give more than a subjective improvement to performance. In fact the braking improved and the afore mentioned fade is eliminated for such emergency 'one off' application.
But...Lots of people are (or have) run green stuff pads with great success. Me included.
Like chipping there's a load of tosh regarding info on braking.
Probably the most important aspect is your own driving style.
If you repeatedly fly into corners braking heavily at the last minute, there's little like David says a pad change will do to solve the performance/wear of a the standard disc, standard calliper and performance pad.
But if like me, you're more of a leisurely drive, who rarely uses the brakes, and would prefer the engine to do most of the braking. The performance pad upgrade is very useful. The oem pad are inadequate - fading if a braking force is applied for any lenghth of time - making high speed motorway exits a scary experience. The greenstuffs give more than a subjective improvement to performance. In fact the braking improved and the afore mentioned fade is eliminated for such emergency 'one off' application.
robthehungrymonkey
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Would it be reccomended? upgrading the callipers is not going to be an option (for a long time anyway!).
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I put EBC turbogroove disks and Greenstuff pads an a Type-R civic and to be perfectly honest i didn't see any difference in fade or stopping distance. The Turbogrooves were well noisy though on hard braking and the greenstuffs don't deposit as much dust on your wheels but that was about it!
I would recommend the pads as an OEM alternative but wouldn't consider them a performance upgrade more like a "easier to clean your wheels from now on" upgrade!
I would recommend the pads as an OEM alternative but wouldn't consider them a performance upgrade more like a "easier to clean your wheels from now on" upgrade!
DavidR
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[ QUOTE ]
MingBlueMagic said:
But there would be some improvement from better discs and pads (and hoses) with the OE caliper?
[/ QUOTE ]
None to write home about. Certainly I guess it will mostly be a perceived rather than actual improvement.
I would go for uprated pads on OEM discs (as cheap as you can find them) because when you do wear them / crack them, they are cheap to replace, and you don't need to declare a disc change to the insurance company.
Uprated discs are for posing, their supposed performance gain on a standard caliper is questionable at best.
Big brake conversion, or a simple pad swap is my view. But feel free to spend loads on fancy dimpled / drilled discs if you like - they won't work as well as you expected and will cost you more money...
MingBlueMagic said:
But there would be some improvement from better discs and pads (and hoses) with the OE caliper?
[/ QUOTE ]
None to write home about. Certainly I guess it will mostly be a perceived rather than actual improvement.
I would go for uprated pads on OEM discs (as cheap as you can find them) because when you do wear them / crack them, they are cheap to replace, and you don't need to declare a disc change to the insurance company.
Uprated discs are for posing, their supposed performance gain on a standard caliper is questionable at best.
Big brake conversion, or a simple pad swap is my view. But feel free to spend loads on fancy dimpled / drilled discs if you like - they won't work as well as you expected and will cost you more money...
Austineer
King of cabs ;)
Guys,
I have EBC slotted discs and green stuff pads fitted to my A4 and am undecided on whether it was actually worth doing. I admit there was an increase in performance but nothing radical and if your a little low on funds I would suggest its probably not really worth bothering. I agree with some of the other comments the only way to get big braking power is to upgrade to bigger calipers, discs and pads i.e. big brake kits.
However this is quite expensive to do, hense why I went with the cheaper alternative. I have heard that there are some A4 owners that have moded thier cars to take the OEM A8 set up (calipers, discs and pads). To be honest I dont know if this is an easy mod, worth doing or whether it would work on any of the A3's/S3's but any comments would be appreciated.
I have EBC slotted discs and green stuff pads fitted to my A4 and am undecided on whether it was actually worth doing. I admit there was an increase in performance but nothing radical and if your a little low on funds I would suggest its probably not really worth bothering. I agree with some of the other comments the only way to get big braking power is to upgrade to bigger calipers, discs and pads i.e. big brake kits.
However this is quite expensive to do, hense why I went with the cheaper alternative. I have heard that there are some A4 owners that have moded thier cars to take the OEM A8 set up (calipers, discs and pads). To be honest I dont know if this is an easy mod, worth doing or whether it would work on any of the A3's/S3's but any comments would be appreciated.
DavidR
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Welshdragon, it's nice to see a realistic appraisal of these type of mods. I too spend a fair amount of money following forum advice to suggest that discs / pads upgraded (firstly on the A3 then at some cost on my S4) would be the solution to all my braking problems - it wasn't. I initially convinced myself it MUST be better given the money spent, but a few months use proved this was not the case.
It IS big money for proper brakes, but they work (Stoptechs on my S4, Brembos on my S3) - it's just a shame to waste good money (which if you have tried one or 2 "solutions" quickly adds up to the cost of proper brakes) on a system that is pretty poor.
Re A8 conversions, I beleive no such system exists for the S3 / A3. In my view any sliding caliper (as almost all audi OEM stuff is) will always perform poorly.
It IS big money for proper brakes, but they work (Stoptechs on my S4, Brembos on my S3) - it's just a shame to waste good money (which if you have tried one or 2 "solutions" quickly adds up to the cost of proper brakes) on a system that is pretty poor.
Re A8 conversions, I beleive no such system exists for the S3 / A3. In my view any sliding caliper (as almost all audi OEM stuff is) will always perform poorly.
robthehungrymonkey
Registered User
Cheers guys, after listening to peoples views who have actually tried the different systems (the only way to do it IMO) I think I will stick with standard brakes.
I would love the brembo kit, as from what i've read now seems the cheapest (but still effective) way to do it. But need to get the credit card to 0 first! Which will take a while, especially after i've spent it on other mods. LOL.
I would love the brembo kit, as from what i've read now seems the cheapest (but still effective) way to do it. But need to get the credit card to 0 first! Which will take a while, especially after i've spent it on other mods. LOL.
DavidR
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Rob, the Brembo kit for the S3 is excellent (although avoid the drilled disc), for the cost £700 + fitting etc it is better than the stoptech kit for the S4 which was easily twice as much..
Brembo definately gets a thumbs up.
Brembo definately gets a thumbs up.
Just my 2p worth but having done the brake thing already I can honestly say that I was very impressed with the results. Have only managed to get the brakes to fade once, but have to say I was driving extreamly hard. You can upgrade the standard pads supplied with the kit with Kevlar pads, maybe when these ones run out, but certainly not going to go out my way to change them.
Looking at the originals when they were off, have to say the OEM calipers are crap. Very surprized to see they were only a single piston design.
Not to mention the big red calipers also look the ******! (Outside the wine bar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif)
Stevie
Looking at the originals when they were off, have to say the OEM calipers are crap. Very surprized to see they were only a single piston design.
Not to mention the big red calipers also look the ******! (Outside the wine bar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif)
Stevie
Drill
Registered User
Well, as far as the std calipers/disc sizes go, I replaced my 288mm discs with the ATE Powerdisc "Slotted" ones. They were right around the same price as the std ones. I got OE type pads, and uprated to braided brake lines. TBPH, the onlt difference I could tell was the firmer pedal with the braided lines, and it seemed the slotted discs held up a bit better in the rain, but other than that, they're the same. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Just my 2 cents. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
Just my 2 cents. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
[ QUOTE ]
David R said:
Rob, the Brembo kit for the S3 is excellent (although avoid the drilled disc)
[/ QUOTE ]
just wandering whats bad about the drilled discs, is the kit available with grooved or plain discs too.
thanks
Mark
David R said:
Rob, the Brembo kit for the S3 is excellent (although avoid the drilled disc)
[/ QUOTE ]
just wandering whats bad about the drilled discs, is the kit available with grooved or plain discs too.
thanks
Mark
DavidR
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[ QUOTE ]
NWMark said:
just wandering whats bad about the drilled discs, is the kit available with grooved or plain discs too.
[/ QUOTE ]
..because the holes create heat spots when they fill up with road grime, and also create weakpoint from where radial cracks can and do form. I beleive the Brembos come with a slotted or plain disc, I will choose the former next time...
NWMark said:
just wandering whats bad about the drilled discs, is the kit available with grooved or plain discs too.
[/ QUOTE ]
..because the holes create heat spots when they fill up with road grime, and also create weakpoint from where radial cracks can and do form. I beleive the Brembos come with a slotted or plain disc, I will choose the former next time...
Geen stuff pads are also suposed to reduce brake dust - another reason why i like the sound of them. Is this true??
[ QUOTE ]
David R said:
[ QUOTE ]
NWMark said:
just wandering whats bad about the drilled discs, is the kit available with grooved or plain discs too.
[/ QUOTE ]
..because the holes create heat spots when they fill up with road grime, and also create weakpoint from where radial cracks can and do form. I beleive the Brembos come with a slotted or plain disc, I will choose the former next time...
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do many high performance cars come with drilled disks then? i.e M3, many porsches etc?? I love the fact that the disks are drilled on the Brembo kit, looks the biz. Again, looks / performance argument comes into play /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
David R said:
[ QUOTE ]
NWMark said:
just wandering whats bad about the drilled discs, is the kit available with grooved or plain discs too.
[/ QUOTE ]
..because the holes create heat spots when they fill up with road grime, and also create weakpoint from where radial cracks can and do form. I beleive the Brembos come with a slotted or plain disc, I will choose the former next time...
[/ QUOTE ]
Why do many high performance cars come with drilled disks then? i.e M3, many porsches etc?? I love the fact that the disks are drilled on the Brembo kit, looks the biz. Again, looks / performance argument comes into play /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Drill
Registered User
I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the major brake companies ( I THINK it was Brembo) were "Casting" their discs with the holes now, instead of drilling them afterwards. This was suppossed to cure the cracking problem /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
