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Thread: 8L S3 vs 8P A3

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    8L S3 vs 8P A3

    Had a play last night with a xenon equipped early 8P model..... the car came up behind on the private road obviously wanting to race, traffic was quite bad so i took the odd opportunity to boot it when a clear lane came up..... it ended up annoying me cos i couldnt shake it, defo wasnt an 8P S3 which i have matched on pace with mine before.....it only had twin exhausts on the left, im guessing 170bhp diesel or 3.2....either way i know i could have took it on the straight based on the S3 scenario, in the end he passed me cos he was prepared to drive far more dangerously than me to prove a point...a point flawed i thought

    still gutted though
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    you need a bigger turbo mate ;P

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    I had a 170 tdi A3 loan car when mine went in for the roof rails and it was really nippy, but did run out of puff early prompting swift gear changes. In remapped form i'd expect it to be really quick, would have been nice to see how it performed against my S3.

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    Are you sure it wasnt a 2.0 turbo? 200bhp as standard

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    I went up against a 2.0tdi 8p with my 2001 210 S3, Kicked his ass off the lights round the roundabout and on down a dual carridge way, he tried to keep up but failed! a good day :-)

    How would a remapped S3 8l fair against a standard 8p S3? anyone had a tangle with one?

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    theres a local lad with on 53 plate 8p tdi 140, everytime he's behind me in traffic he thinks its a duel between the old V new! its nippy fairplay, but not much guts after 80mph on long straight private roads *cough*

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    I call for a trackday to settle it. lol
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    Bare in mind a remapped 2.0t will be a good match for a remapped s3. Interested to see what it was exactly though.
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    I raced a 8P S3 for fair few miles through the rual part which has some longish striaghts coming back from Audi Driver International and he was definatly trying to lose me for some time but he couldnt pull any length on me at all.

    One my neighbours had a 2.0T A3 with 200bhp standard and it is pretty quick, now has a 8P S3. Has a little less power to weight ratio as a S3, but very similar performance to a 8L S3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wibble111 View Post
    I had a 170 tdi A3 loan car when mine went in for the roof rails and it was really nippy, but did run out of puff early prompting swift gear changes. In remapped form i'd expect it to be really quick, would have been nice to see how it performed against my S3.
    Same here... i bet its an animal with a remap.
    Doesnt feel as steady without 4wd though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9099 View Post
    I call for a trackday to settle it. lol
    seconded, 8L vs 8P
    bring it on i say!!!!

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    This is not a performance or out and out handling comparison, more everyday 'driveability'. My missus got her 8p 2.0 tdi Sport S-Line a month after I got my S3, hers came standard with 18inchers and 225 Bridgestones and mine had 18" S4 reps with same size cheapo tyres, mine felt heavy, solid and hard. The 8P was firm, well damped, lighter steering and much more 'feel' it felt like a toy by comparison initially but after a mile or two much more enjoyable, especially on the A and B roads where we live. I think the suspension set up is streets ahead of the S3, Am I mad?

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    Bang for buck though... the 8l s3 is 1/3 of the price.
    However if i had a spare 20k kicking around i would not hesitate getting an 8p tdi

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimby View Post
    This is not a performance or out and out handling comparison, more everyday 'driveability'. My missus got her 8p 2.0 tdi Sport S-Line a month after I got my S3, hers came standard with 18inchers and 225 Bridgestones and mine had 18" S4 reps with same size cheapo tyres, mine felt heavy, solid and hard. The 8P was firm, well damped, lighter steering and much more 'feel' it felt like a toy by comparison initially but after a mile or two much more enjoyable, especially on the A and B roads where we live. I think the suspension set up is streets ahead of the S3, Am I mad?
    No, you're not mad. I had an 8P courtesy car overnight once, it was only a 2.0 FSI, but it handles as well as my 8L S3(out the box) on a dry road, despite having 100bhp less.



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    From my experience an 8l S3 even when mapped would be slightly behind a standard 8p most make more than the 265 that audi claim, my old car as per my sig was only just ahead of a standard 8p. I still think the 8l is prettier though
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    Had a play last night with a xenon equipped early 8P model..... the car came up behind on the private road obviously wanting to race, traffic was quite bad so i took the odd opportunity to boot it when a clear lane came up..... it ended up annoying me cos i couldnt shake it, defo wasnt an 8P S3 which i have matched on pace with mine before.....it only had twin exhausts on the left, im guessing 170bhp diesel or 3.2....either way i know i could have took it on the straight based on the S3 scenario, in the end he passed me cos he was prepared to drive far more dangerously than me to prove a point...a point flawed i thought

    still gutted though
    Sod people who drive like arses when they wanna play around! I always let them go when they start doing that. Let them crash their car, that's what i always say lol. Sounds interesting though seeing as it wasn't an S3.
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    na i think it was a diesel as the exhausts were pointing downwards...the 2.0T's are straight pipes IIRC

    8P S3.....ive had a blast from 20mph upto god knows what, perfect conditions etc etc and it was neck and neck.... assume it was standard based on the driver
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    Is your car mapped Tim? Didn't think diesels were that nippy tbh.
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    yeah it is mate..... the 170bhp diesel is and if mapped has loads of torque.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by csweatherston View Post
    Bang for buck though... the 8l s3 is 1/3 of the price.
    However if i had a spare 20k kicking around i would not hesitate getting an 8p tdi
    The S3 has qualities I value e.g. the 'hewn from solid' feel to the whole car and the exclusivity, up here anyway. Mine was a trade in and before I bought it the dealer brought it back up to as near 'new' as possible replacing dampers, anti roll bars bushes etc so it was as good a 'standard' car as you could hope for. At that time my wife had a 55 2.0 tdi sport against which the S3 more than held its own. it was her latest car that was a revelation and it made me source some 17" Avus which I fitted with Rainsport 2's which helped a bit.
    I'd like to know what Audi changed on the latest A3 as it is so much better than its immediate predecessor, never mind the S3. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, the S3 is still a lot of car for the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimby View Post
    This is not a performance or out and out handling comparison, more everyday 'driveability'. My missus got her 8p 2.0 tdi Sport S-Line a month after I got my S3, hers came standard with 18inchers and 225 Bridgestones and mine had 18" S4 reps with same size cheapo tyres, mine felt heavy, solid and hard. The 8P was firm, well damped, lighter steering and much more 'feel' it felt like a toy by comparison initially but after a mile or two much more enjoyable, especially on the A and B roads where we live. I think the suspension set up is streets ahead of the S3, Am I mad?
    if all you're doing is comparing the two as every day drivers then i fail to see how a 10 year old car can compare to a 12 month old car, as obviously audi will have done more research and development into all aspects of the car and improved in every single area, safety, comfort, driveability, economy etc

    question is do you want to pay 20k (as a guess) for the above when the s3 8L can still give all of the above if well maintained for half the price?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nimby View Post
    The S3 has qualities I value e.g. the 'hewn from solid' feel to the whole car and the exclusivity, up here anyway. Mine was a trade in and before I bought it the dealer brought it back up to as near 'new' as possible replacing dampers, anti roll bars bushes etc so it was as good a 'standard' car as you could hope for. At that time my wife had a 55 2.0 tdi sport against which the S3 more than held its own. it was her latest car that was a revelation and it made me source some 17" Avus which I fitted with Rainsport 2's which helped a bit.
    I'd like to know what Audi changed on the latest A3 as it is so much better than its immediate predecessor, never mind the S3. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, the S3 is still a lot of car for the money.
    Did replacing the dampers/ arb bushes make it feel more like a 'new' car? as im thinking about doing mine. I have no record of them being done since new, so should imagine after 9 years and 70k miles there pretty tired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    na i think it was a diesel as the exhausts were pointing downwards...the 2.0T's are straight pipes IIRC
    If the pipes were pointing down it won't be the 2.0tdi 170bhp as these had straight pipes too but the 2.0tdi 140bhp pointed downwards (as did mine)

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    In my view...

    S3 8L = quality, understated exclusivity, lovable.

    A3 8P = another modern hatchback.

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    I agree with the above... When I see an 8L on the road, I always flash or nod at the driver. They are a less common sight on the roads. However, when I see an 8P I just think another modern hatchback. Would not swap my car for an 8P at all. I know what is under ever panel in my car.... I would feel too scared to take apart an 8P.

    Gotta love the old skool. Old is better than new IMO. And I could have stretched to a 2.0tdi 8P, but having spoken to various people before buying I was advised that the power to weight ratio of the 8L 1.9 130 is better. Just an observation... But they don't seem to like me much. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by csweatherston View Post
    Did replacing the dampers/ arb bushes make it feel more like a 'new' car? as im thinking about doing mine. I have no record of them being done since new, so should imagine after 9 years and 70k miles there pretty tired.
    Mine was on 68k when it was done 11 months ago and is now on 75k, I don't know what a 'new' S3 would have felt like but it is rattle free and tight as a drum as any new A3 we've had.
    Our A3 ownership began in 99 with a 1.6 sport, then an 02 1.9tdi 130 sport, followed by a 55 2.0tdi 140 sport, then my S3 and lastly the 09 S-Line tdi 140. Having driven all these cars extensively the best overall IMHO was the tdi 130 closely followed by the 09. The 55 variant was such a backward step compared to the tdi130, sterile and with ****ty brakes. I've left the S3 out as it's beyond comparison but I wish it soaked up the bumps like the new one.

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    Yeah my mate had a 130 tdi and for a diesel it was rapid apart from the time the air mass meter went on it the only thing bad about it was it went through a lot of front tyres my mate still regrets selling it he has an alfa 156 2 litre t spark don’t know why!!!

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    that clarify's things..... hmmm what pipes does the 3.2 have? theres no way this guy should have stayed with me even for the short stints if it were a 140bhp
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    Tim,

    3.2s have, as standard, twin straight pipes I believe. At least according to pics on the 'trader anyway... I looked at getting one when I got my S3, but having driven one, thought the S3 an overall better package. More aggressive stance, better seats etc.

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    the 140bhp tdi has more torque than a standard S3 (320/280) and if it was only fwd would weigh about the same, so at speed accleration might be similar if the 8p driver knew what he was doing

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    ...theres no way this guy should have stayed with me even for the short stints if it were a 140bhp
    I wouldn't be so sure about that, I am going to level a claim that my car has a similar power/weight ratio as a TT/ Porsche Boxter (Can't say which model/engine spec since I didn't ask ). I can justify those claims because "spirited drives" on an A road against both vehicles have proven my point. It's also down to the driver.

    I am willing to concede that a Tdi 130 is not faster... But in real world terms the 310NM of torque is the secret

    In addition... This matrix does not show the 30-70 accelaration time... That would be interesting to know because on the move the TDi has the edge.

    Last edited by 9099; 12th February 2010 at 10:27.
    2001 A3 1.9tdi 130pd (Aka "Osama Bin Diesel") 130bhp 310NM = PMSL
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    interesting that....my guess is then that his will run out of puff if i have a long enough drag
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    I had my 8p 2.0tdi 140bhp remaped and she flew! Not a touch on my S3 now but was still a powerfull car!
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    Yer if the road had been clear enough you would of caned him, he only has that much torque for a short while, we can rev up to around 6000rpm from 2500rpm with the torque the s3's got.
    The caddy tdi ive now got does feel nippy when driving it but its when i gets in my car i relise why petrols better

    I sometimes gets vans leveling my pull offs for the first second or two untill they change gear and i dissapear. Can you map desiels to make them have a longer power band.?
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny87 View Post
    if all you're doing is comparing the two as every day drivers then i fail to see how a 10 year old car can compare to a 12 month old car, as obviously audi will have done more research and development into all aspects of the car and improved in every single area, safety, comfort, driveability, economy etc

    question is do you want to pay 20k (as a guess) for the above when the s3 8L can still give all of the above if well maintained for half the price?
    You're quite right, I wouldn't want to pay that simply for improved handling as I'm more than happy with my S3 although that may not be evident. I've driven a variety of A3's over the last 10 years, all with Audi's 'sports' suspension and they all felt pretty much the same IMO until the 09 8P where there was a 'night and day' improvement. It was just such a contrast

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3HOGGY
    I had my 8p 2.0tdi 140bhp remaped and she flew! Not a touch on my S3 now but was still a powerfull car!
    In fairness to the TDi crew... You're car ain't exactly standard. But then I am not saying that a standard PD stands a chance against a remapped S3. Did you know that in a staightline (standard) the 130pd is faster than the 140pd... I can't say how I know this. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by emery1990 View Post
    Yer if the road had been clear enough you would of caned him, he only has that much torque for a short while, we can rev up to around 6000rpm from 2500rpm with the torque the s3's got.
    The caddy tdi ive now got does feel nippy when driving it but its when i gets in my car i relise why petrols better

    I sometimes gets vans leveling my pull offs for the first second or two untill they change gear and i dissapear. Can you map desiels to make them have a longer power band.?
    You can alter the way a tdi delivers the power (torque), but having said that, I am generally speaking about standard cars NOT mapped ones.

    Care to test your theory? I know a nice private road if you don't live too far from me? Infact... even if you do, I get better fuel economy, I can drive to you if you like

    I hope this isn't turning into a "my toy is better than yours thread".

    People! What about the trackday? anyone keen?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Troopa View Post
    Is your car mapped Tim? Didn't think diesels were that nippy tbh.
    I've had a couple of diesels remapped, My Leon Cupra TDi went from 150 to around 190 had two runs on different rolling roads and had figures of 187 and 189 and it could quite easily stay with an Astra VXR and a civic type R when I had a go at a trackday at Cadwell Park.
    I've also had my A3 done and it has gone from 110 to around 150 going to get it rolling roaded soon as I've fitted a full turbo back Milltek exhaust and getting a green cotton filter fitted shortly. I've found the in gear acceleration awesome and it gives the traction control a headache and can scrabble the front tyres in third under spirited driving conditions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat J View Post
    I've had a couple of diesels remapped, My Leon Cupra TDi went from 150 to around 190 had two runs on different rolling roads and had figures of 187 and 189 and it could quite easily stay with an Astra VXR and a civic type R when I had a go at a trackday at Cadwell Park.
    I've also had my A3 done and it has gone from 110 to around 150 going to get it rolling roaded soon as I've fitted a full turbo back Milltek exhaust and getting a green cotton filter fitted shortly. I've found the in gear acceleration awesome and it gives the traction control a headache and can scrabble the front tyres in third under spirited driving conditions
    With a hybrid/bigger turbo, larger FMIC/injector nozzles/fuel pump... 260+ is achievable with a PD (ASZ).

    How much difference did the remap make to the LCR? I am about to have a triple stage map that can be switched using vag.com, and was wondering whether the power was really noticeable? Obviously there will be some difference, but will it be massive?

    EDIT: Forgot to mention... With a remap to 180-190 the torque figure would be somewhere around 390-410 nm of torque.
    Last edited by 9099; 13th February 2010 at 19:31.
    2001 A3 1.9tdi 130pd (Aka "Osama Bin Diesel") 130bhp 310NM = PMSL
    Done:

    EGR switched off using vag.com. Full no expenses spared service. Refurb Gearbox, new clutch/flywheel.
    In the works:
    Mk II TT Steering wheel (No Airbag), vag.com switchable 3 stage map. Big brake kit. Hybrid turbo.

  40. #39
    Pat J's Avatar
    Getting there

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    The difference to the Leon took it from fast to rapid and with all the extra torque you didn't need to change gear as often and in gear accelleration was unbelievable on the autobahn it would still squat under acceleration at 80+ and pulled like a train. Sometimes regret getting rid of it. I was looking at going down the hybrid turbo route but other things came up.
    On your PD130 a lot of the Seat guys have fitted the larger PD150 turbo and got good gains.
    The difference to the A3 is good as well gives the same feel as the Leon when it was standard. Gives a few boy racers a shock at the traffic light grand prix especially when they realise they've been dieseled

  41. #40
    Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    Only 8P Ive had a go against was a diesel. Im assuming the 140 as it wasnt even close. My brother had a mapped mk4 golf gttdi 150 and that would keep up to an extent up steep hills but still wasnt nearly as fast on the flats despite the monumental torque. I'd asume a mapped 170 to be similar.

    2003 Audi S3 + Go faster bits

 

 
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