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    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Newbie Buying Advice 210 V 225bhp S3

    Hi Forum,

    All being well within the next couple of weeks I will be proud owner of an 8L (pre 2006 right?) S3. I am chopping my a6 2.8 quattro in and wish to re-live my youth a little.

    My dilemma is if I go for an older 210bhp model over the 225bhp model will I regret it? I will be going down the remap route so will both models perform the same once remapped anyway? I've read the 210 model isn't vvt? Is this right, if so I take it, it will never be as quick?

    Apologise if questions are daft.
    If anyone can help I would be grateful, also any other differences between the models would be great (engine/internal & external)..

    Many Thanks
    J.

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    Hello and welcome to the forum.

    The S3 8L was made between 99 and 03 , the S3 8P came out in 2006.
    I wouldn't worry about the 210 / 225 model difference as the performance is not noticeable. Once remapped they will have similar figures anyway. I'm fairly sure the 210 AMK engine and the 225 BAM engine both have VVT but its there for emissions, not performance. I went for a 51 plate 210 bhp facelift version as the insurance is one group lower than the 225. a pre march 2001 model would also be in the lower tax bracket.

    Hope this helps.
    Sean.

  5. #4
    1animal1's Avatar
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    just do yaself a favour and spend that extra couple hundred quid on a facelift - other than that just buy 210 or 25 depending which best one comes along
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    Tax could be an issue in a year and a bit.

    although they are in the same band at the moment until 2010, afterwards the tax hike could be a bit of a shock if you own a 225, (210 is in band K, 225 is in band L)

    http://www.parkers.co.uk/News/Road-t...o-tax-changes/

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy felt View Post
    Tax could be an issue in a year and a bit.

    although they are in the same band at the moment until 2010, afterwards the tax hike could be a bit of a shock if you own a 225, (210 is in band K, 225 is in band L)

    http://www.parkers.co.uk/News/Road-t...o-tax-changes/
    Wow thanks for the quick responses guys....All relevant replies great !
    Hey bit concerned about the tax thing now though. I thought pre march 2006 all cars exceeding tax group K fell into K anyway +30. Is this not correct?

    Are the interiors the same between models?

    J.

  8. #7
    1animal1's Avatar
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    a lot of people go on about the tax, personally i think if you are buying an S3 and the tax is the defining decision maker...then you shouldnt be buying an S3 in the first place
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  9. #8
    1animal1's Avatar
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    nope, facelifts mid 2000 onwards..... will have many many updates, you can get the odd 210bhp facelift as the engine was fazed out to the 225 BAM engine
    Xbox 360 gamer ID : Timffy

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  10. #9
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    a lot of people go on about the tax, personally i think if you are buying an S3 and the tax is the defining decision maker...then you shouldnt be buying an S3 in the first place
    I do agree, but 200 ish is just a 'nicer' loss than 400 ish+.....
    But I see your point.... (gotta get it past the wife as well though,lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    a lot of people go on about the tax, personally i think if you are buying an S3 and the tax is the defining decision maker...then you shouldnt be buying an S3 in the first place
    Was just a heads up, it didn't affect my decision to buy an S3, but it might sway others.

  12. #11
    sean_s3's Avatar
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    If tax is a problem just try and source a pre march 2001 face lift model and your laughing.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...icle/DG_172916
    S3 Big Turbo

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    As discussed a million (and one now) times... cars registered before march 2006 that have a CO2 figure of over 225 will be in band K. Cars registered before March 2001 will be based on engine size as it was in the good old days..

    Only decision to make here based on tax is pre March 2001 or post March 2001... You can get facelift S3's with a 210bhp AMK engine that will stick you in the 'engine size' tax bracket but they are rare.

    Mine is a 210 AMK post March 2001 (51) and there was no difference in performance between this and any of the 225 BAM cars I test drove while buying mine... Price, condition and service history are the main factors here. Don't get hung up on the whole 210 vs 225 thing...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link sean. It does only seem 2010-2011 is about 230 ish. If i'm honest I guess its more a depreciation thing..I'd hate to spend X amount now and in 18 months it be worth loads less purely due to our government removing the temp placement of band L cars into band K.

    Can anyone pointme in the right direction for facelift changes? (a link maybe) I'm thinking along the lines of feature changes that may sway my decision making....(I think i'll park the tax issue and just except what ever)..

  15. #14
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    Check this thread, plenty of info on the facelift changes.

    Audi S3 buying guide!

    The most noticeable exterior change is the 1 piece headlight / indicator units on the facelift version. on pre facelift cars they are 2 piece.
    S3 Big Turbo

  16. #15
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    As discussed a million (and one now) times... cars registered before march 2006 that have a CO2 figure of over 225 will be in band K. Cars registered before March 2001 will be based on engine size as it was in the good old days..

    Only decision to make here based on tax is pre March 2001 or post March 2001... You can get facelift S3's with a 210bhp AMK engine that will stick you in the 'engine size' tax bracket but they are rare.

    Mine is a 210 AMK post March 2001 (51) and there was no difference in performance between this and any of the 225 BAM cars I test drove while buying mine... Price, condition and service history are the main factors here. Don't get hung up on the whole 210 vs 225 thing...

    <tuffty/>
    thanks for clearing up the performance thing tuffty....On the tax issue though my eye caught the phase on the GOv website "Temporary Placement of Band L cars into Band K", suggesting this will not be forever..?

  17. #16
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jq_quint View Post
    If i'm honest I guess its more a depreciation thing..I'd hate to spend X amount now and in 18 months it be worth loads less purely due to our government removing the temp placement of band L cars into band K.
    TBH mate, I think fuel costs will kill values long before car tax does... 1.15 odd a litre and rising for V Power and similar octane fuel is gonna hit the hardest long term.

    Don't get me wrong, the S3 can be an economical little car if you drive it right but depending on your driving style and the type of journeys you do will determine fuel consumption and ultimately total cost of ownership that will make the 'tax issue' seem insignificant by comparison.

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  18. #17
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Hear what you say about the fuel thing, I may as well toe a fuel tanker around at the mo behind my 2.8 a6 Q.

  19. #18
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    Jp_quint , what does the 2.8 A6 average on fuel ?
    S3 Big Turbo

  20. #19
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean_s3 View Post
    Check this thread, plenty of info on the facelift changes.

    Audi S3 buying guide!

    The most noticeable exterior change is the 1 piece headlight / indicator units on the facelift version. on pre facelift cars they are 2 piece.
    Sean,

    That was a great link, really helpful

    One point I picked up one was improved chassis on facelifted model. Gotta be main reason to go facelift?

    J.

  21. #20
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean_s3 View Post
    Jp_quint , what does the 2.8 A6 average on fuel ?
    Driving (Very) steady in a week returns about 25mpg, going mad every day 20 at best !!!

  22. #21
    sean_s3's Avatar
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    You might see better economy then with the S3. I average 27 mpg for my weekly drive.

    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...3_quattro.html

    According to that review the facelift came with some chassis and suspension revisions, but ive never drove a pre facelift so i cannot say how they compare.
    S3 Big Turbo

  23. #22
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean_s3 View Post
    You might see better economy then with the S3. I average 27 mpg for my weekly drive.

    http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...3_quattro.html

    According to that review the facelift came with some chassis and suspension revisions, but ive never drove a pre facelift so i cannot say how they compare.
    Another great link sean (do you have these as short cuts on your dektop or something? lol).

    Ok decided - "will" go for facelift.

    Are there any major bananaskins on these cars then when I start viewing ?

  24. #23
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    S3's tend to be so variable sadly... they will either be owed by some muppet that bought it to thrash it and not have to maintain it as its an 'itch' they need to scratch or it coiuld be owned by an enthusiast who gets stuff done even if it looks like it doesn't need doing (like mine)

    All the usual things when looking at cars apply of course... service history, cam belt change in particular and the water pump are classic favourites. If they haven't been done and the mileage is about right then it can be used to bargain with.

    Ideally you want VAGCOM (or someone with VAGCOM with you) to check fault codes that maybe lingering. Fualts can be triggered and the owner can be blissfully unaware that they are there...

    Other than that its vacuum and boost pipes that create probs..

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

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    sean_s3's Avatar
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    Ive only had mine 6 month so all the research i did is still pretty fresh.

    The usual stuff. Good service history, cam belt and water pump change at some point depending on mileage. The most common exterior fault is corrosion on the roof rails / roof so give that area a good inspection. Try and view as many as you can if possible..
    S3 Big Turbo

  26. #25
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Thanks Tuffty,
    What are the cam belt periods? Are these engines ok post 100K assuming FSH?
    Will get VAGCOM, will the typical 'cheap' ebay version be ok?
    J.

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    For the cam belt i would say every 50,000 miles or 5 year depending which one comes first. If you find a car that hasn't had the change then offer a price around this as its not a cheap job. Past 100 k is fine if its been serviced regular like you say. There is plenty of people on here with remapped cars going well over 100 k.

    E bay vagcom's are very limited so if possible take a mechanic friend who can help out in that area.
    S3 Big Turbo

  28. #27
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    every 50K, wow is that all? ok will take this into consideration. What sost of cost is belt change, so i can use a bargaining tool?
    p.s wasn't suggesting to take vagcom along, afterall there is no way I would allow anyone plug anything into a car i was selling ! I just meant for routine maintenance checks..

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    Some people may change it earlier or later , mine was done at 45,000 by the original owner. Most used S3's should have had it done by now to be honest.

    For the cam belt / water pump i think its in the region of 400. Use a decent Audi / VW independent garage as Audi would probably double that price !!

    An Ebay vagcom will only let you check a few things such as engine codes and some measuring blocks , but i dont think it lets you clear any faults codes found.
    S3 Big Turbo

  30. #29
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    ok sean thanks for the advice.
    I will keep you posted when I get myself sorted with one.
    (still gotta decide on colour now, ummmm)

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    easy. black
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  32. #31
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    I'm not really a black car man...
    fav's at the mo are grey or silver and am even tempted with the solid red or light blue shades...

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    fair enough, what about noggi blue, i prefer that too black, some of the s3's in red look a bit too orangy.
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  34. #33
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    I think the light blue might be the noggie blue your referring to? Its none metallic isn't it? similar to the renault clio 182 blue?

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    Yes its solid, very nice looking car, i think its the best colour for chrome wing mirrors too.
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    Post pics of your A3/S3

    all the colours your on about are on the first page of post a pic. red grey noggi blue etc. noggi blue looking the best i think
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  37. #36
    jq_quint's Avatar
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    Think I agree, the noggy blue is very smart, still like the red also.

  38. #37
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    On the subject of cambelts... Someone I know who has a 2001 AMK S3 like mine, takes it to a well know dealer and asks if he should have the cambelt done... they told him no, not until 100k... his car has 97k on the clock and last week the cambelt snapped and has landed him with a bill for fixing it of nearly 2500...

    Not worth messing with IMHO... 60k miles tops and get it changed... mine wasn't done when I got mine with 82k on it... did it shortly afterwards as just couldn't take the risk...

    Anything you look at with 50k plus on it, make sure it has the cambelt done... if not, factor it into the price you pay...

    simples...

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  39. #38
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    I agree with Tufty. The two items you must not scrimp on or delay are oil changes & cam belt.

    Every 50-60k or 5 years which ever is sooner for cam belt, pulleys and waterpump and you should not go wrong.

    Cheers,


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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean_s3 View Post
    Some people may change it earlier or later , mine was done at 45,000 by the original owner. Most used S3's should have had it done by now to be honest.

    For the cam belt / water pump i think its in the region of 400. Use a decent Audi / VW independent garage as Audi would probably double that price !!

    An Ebay vagcom will only let you check a few things such as engine codes and some measuring blocks , but i dont think it lets you clear any faults codes found.
    if you take it to Audi its 320 fixed price, and make sure you get the waterpump and thermostat changed at the same time as the cambelt.

    Nige
    1999 Audi S3 Superchips remap, Forge 007p, Phatnoise, Black Diamond Discs & DS2500 pads, N249 Deleted, Badger 5 TIP, Poly dogbone bush, Bilstein B8's and Eibach Springs.

    1986 Audi Coupe Quattro 2.2 restoration project

  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportquattro View Post
    if you take it to Audi its 320 fixed price, and make sure you get the waterpump and thermostat changed at the same time as the cambelt.

    Nige
    320 !! my normal service was 400 so cannot see Audi doing a service for that but if you have then fairplay,I guess nobody is going to mention metal impellers

 

 
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