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  1. #1
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    S3.. thoughts please people?

    My friend is looking to but an S3. We went to view one today in Northampton it was a 2000 reg 8L with 98k on, full Audi service history, a very comprehensive history of any work carried out including all MOTs etc. It's an APY engine code and has had a Revo map to 260HP.

    The car performed very well and the engine seemed very well maintained. I took my VAG hand held scanner to check for trouble codes and got..

    17748.P1340 camshaft position sensor G40/engine speed sensor - G28: incorrect allocation.

    I have consulted the Ross Tech code reference page and it seems the problem is either a faulty G40/G28 sensor or the timing belt/chain is positioned incorrectly (the timing is out).

    As the car performed well and idled perfectly I pressume it is a faulty sensor as there is no evidence of bad timing. The cam belt or head have not been worked on/removed since the cam belt change at 70k.

    Any thought??

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  3. #2
    Westy's Avatar
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    GO back for a 2nd test drive but clear the codes first and see if they come back after the drive. They may be old faults that haven't been cleared after they were fixed.
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  4. #3
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    That was my intention but my mate bit the bullet and put a deposit down so it looks like there will be much more time to investigate further now.

    No doubt he'll be making an appearance on here soon.. I'll keep you posted.

    Cheers.

  5. #4
    ianysm's Avatar
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    How much did he get it for?

    Sounds good to me.

    And he has a mate with all the gear...!
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  6. #5
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianysm View Post
    How much did he get it for?

    Sounds good to me.

    And he has a mate with all the gear...!
    5K and he collected it yesterday.

    Turns out there may be a slight issue with it after all!

    I'll explain in more detail in my following post...

  7. #6
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    My mate turned up at my house yesterday so we took his new S3 out for a blast up the dual carriageway.

    Apparently it is not running right...

    Up to 4000 revs the car feels fine but with the pedal to the floor at this point (turbo building pressure) there is a definite what could be described as a stutter. This 'stutter' then repeats intermittently up to red line.

    Obviously the place to start looking is the fault code so I was planning..

    1) Check the timing (TDC) marks all line up and that the number of teeth/links between points on the cam belt/chain are correct.

    If the above is ok and the chain hasn't stretched etc. I will..

    2) Check/replace the involved sensor or wiring.

    3) Cry and kick the sh!t out of his new car!! lol

    So what would you do?

  8. #7
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Oh yeah.. and a big thank you to the 'S3 24 hour helpline' AKA Tufftybloke

  9. #8
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    It sounds like you didn't take it out for a proper test drive before buying it.

    But then again you were thorough in your pre-inspection tests (vag com), which I must say I would not have done.
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  10. #9
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    My mate turned up at my house yesterday so we took his new S3 out for a blast up the dual carriageway.

    Apparently it is not running right...

    Up to 4000 revs the car feels fine but with the pedal to the floor at this point (turbo building pressure) there is a definite what could be described as a stutter. This 'stutter' then repeats intermittently up to red line.

    Obviously the place to start looking is the fault code so I was planning..

    1) Check the timing (TDC) marks all line up and that the number of teeth/links between points on the cam belt/chain are correct.

    If the above is ok and the chain hasn't stretched etc. I will..

    2) Check/replace the involved sensor or wiring.

    3) Cry and kick the sh!t out of his new car!! lol

    So what would you do?

    Have you tried disconnecting the MAF sensor and driving it? The symptoms you describe could be a faulty MAF sensor also. I've noticed from past experience that the failure of one part/sensor can bring up all sorts of fault codes when using VAGCOM to diagnose, like a chain reaction if you like. Also, does it fireup easily? a knackered crank sensor makes it difficult to start I think.



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  11. #10
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoal007 View Post
    It sounds like you didn't take it out for a proper test drive before buying it.

    But then again you were thorough in your pre-inspection tests (vag com), which I must say I would not have done.
    To be honest I wasn't driving the car and for a radius of about 3 miles from where the car was situated it was littered with speed bumps. The one section of road where we did get some good speed up I was in the rear of the car. The car does pull very well and I couldn't at that time see that there was a problem.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    Oh yeah.. and a big thank you to the 'S3 24 hour helpline' AKA Tufftybloke
    You are welcome d00de although just sorry I couldn't get to my PC to have a quick look for anything else relating to the prob

    Hope you get it sorted...

    If the cambelt has slipped a tooth, I am pretty sure the engine wouldn't run as well as it does up to 4k, really need to log it in VAGCOM

    Mine used to be a bit fluttery due to an issue with knock sensor 1.

    Good luck with checking TDC, easiest way to do it I can think of would be to pin back serpentine belt tensioner, remove the bolts holding crank pulley on, align the crank marks then tease open the cam cover to view the cam pulley marks as its a complete git to take off on an S3/transverse engine...

    <tuffty/>
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  13. #12
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Have you tried disconnecting the MAF sensor and driving it? The symptoms you describe could be a faulty MAF sensor also. I've noticed from past experience that the failure of one part/sensor can bring up all sorts of fault codes when using VAGCOM to diagnose, like a chain reaction if you like. Also, does it fireup easily? a knackered crank sensor makes it difficult to start I think.
    Not tried with the MAF disconnected. Wont it run badly anyway with the MAF disconnected?.. I know my AEB does.

    It starts first time.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    You are welcome d00de although just sorry I couldn't get to my PC to have a quick look for anything else relating to the prob

    Hope you get it sorted...

    If the cambelt has slipped a tooth, I am pretty sure the engine wouldn't run as well as it does up to 4k, really need to log it in VAGCOM

    Mine used to be a bit fluttery due to an issue with knock sensor 1.

    Good luck with checking TDC, easiest way to do it I can think of would be to pin back serpentine belt tensioner, remove the bolts holding crank pulley on, align the crank marks then tease open the cam cover to view the cam pulley marks as its a complete git to take off on an S3/transverse engine...

    <tuffty/>
    Wouldn't have expected you to look it up for us mate.. your input was greatly received

    Yeah.. the fact that it's only after 4k ish kind of ruled out bad timing in my mind as surely it would suffer throughout the rev range? What about variable valve timing?

    I'll try to run a log asap.

    Feckin transverse engines suck @ss lol.

  15. #14
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    Not tried with the MAF disconnected. Wont it run badly anyway with the MAF disconnected?.. I know my AEB does.

    It starts first time.
    No, if the MAF is faulty, then disconnecting it will make it run smoothly, but in a default setting, so the car will be running less power than standard. It will also flag up some fault codes which can be reset by VagCom, though these usually disappear when you reconnect your MAF - at least it does on my car anyways.



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  16. #15
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    Yeah.. the fact that it's only after 4k ish kind of ruled out bad timing in my mind as surely it would suffer throughout the rev range? What about variable valve timing?
    The VVT system is only there for emmisions reasons, it does nothing for the performance what so ever.



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  17. #16
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    The VVT system is only there for emmisions reasons, it does nothing for the performance what so ever.
    I was just thinking that maybe if the engine speed sensor/cam position sensor was acting up then it may in turn influence the VVT system and the smooth running of the engine.

  18. #17
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    Fairly sure APY is non VVT tbh...

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  19. #18
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    Wish I would of seen this sooner, would of come down with you to check it out. (northampton here to) I had this error on mine when my cam-belt wasn't put on properelly first time round by what i thought was a good mechanic..(long story!) Striaght back got a refund and took it to a proper VAG mechanic and got it sorted... he was shocked! My proper mechanic said the rubber was slowly wearing as it wasn't aligned properelly on other parts, and showed me! Obv I had the waterpump changed to. Really hope it's just the sensor and not the cambelt mate.

    Did the engine warning light stay on when you were driving it? Mine did.

  20. #19
    Leon's Avatar
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    I had a very similar problem with mine because the speed sensor was faulty. It would rev normally till around 4K then just stutter, jerk etc. Basically the engine was cutting back power for safety because of the faulty sensor. 120 later (and its the second time it has gone) the fault cleared. Hope your mate gets it sorted.
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  21. #20
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    Sorry read your second review properelly now... is it remapped do u know?

  22. #21
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    First post mate... Revo

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  23. #22
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    whoooooooooooops whats wrong with me! Ok well err tuffty seems to be on the case here!

  24. #23
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    Fairly sure APY is non VVT tbh...

    <tuffty/>
    Ha ha that rules that out then

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran-s3 View Post
    Wish I would of seen this sooner, would of come down with you to check it out. (northampton here to) I had this error on mine when my cam-belt wasn't put on properelly first time round by what i thought was a good mechanic..(long story!) Striaght back got a refund and took it to a proper VAG mechanic and got it sorted... he was shocked! My proper mechanic said the rubber was slowly wearing as it wasn't aligned properelly on other parts, and showed me! Obv I had the waterpump changed to. Really hope it's just the sensor and not the cambelt mate.

    Did the engine warning light stay on when you were driving it? Mine did.
    Hmmm??.. were there any signs of poor running with yours?

    He's had no warning light at all AFAIK.

    Yeah fingers crossed that it's only a faulty sensor.

  26. #25
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    I had a very similar problem with mine because the speed sensor was faulty. It would rev normally till around 4K then just stutter, jerk etc. Basically the engine was cutting back power for safety because of the faulty sensor. 120 later (and its the second time it has gone) the fault cleared. Hope your mate gets it sorted.
    This is identical to what he's getting.. most of the evidence is pointing towards the speed sensor.

    The cam belt hasn't been touched since 70K so unless the chain has stretched I think that can be ruled out.

    Did you test the sensor before replacing mate?

  27. #26
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    If the crank sensor is playing up, it will normally throw a code, and maybe cut out. Sometimes even will be hard to start.

    Tell the truth, you sabotaged him so you were faster,lol

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    Hmmm??.. were there any signs of poor running with yours?

    He's had no warning light at all AFAIK.

    Yeah fingers crossed that it's only a faulty sensor.
    There wasn't any signs of poor running when my cam belt wasn't tensioned properelly. Drove fine apart from the warning light coming on and staying on.. So it's odd the warning light hasn't stayed on for your friends car. Looks like the speed sensor could be the route to go down then....

  29. #28
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan A4 View Post
    If the crank sensor is playing up, it will normally throw a code, and maybe cut out. Sometimes even will be hard to start.

    Tell the truth, you sabotaged him so you were faster,lol
    There is a code (see first post)


  30. #29
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    I bet its still on its original coil packs too?
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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    I took my VAG hand held scanner to check for trouble codes and got..

    17748.P1340 camshaft position sensor G40/engine speed sensor - G28: incorrect allocation.

    I have consulted the Ross Tech code reference page and it seems the problem is either a faulty G40/G28 sensor or the timing belt/chain is positioned incorrectly (the timing is out).
    This the page you looked at Lee?

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/17748/P1340/004928

    If you get hold of VAGCOM or maybe your handheld does the same, this may also be of use to you..

    http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/

    The wiki suggests using a measuring block to determine if the timing chain is an issue... camshaft stuff appears to be blocks 090 to 098 but I couldn't tell you which one to use...

    Someone with ElsaWin handy may be able to shed some light on the diagnostic procedure for this...

    <tuffty/>
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  32. #31
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    its your crank sensor...had exactly the same problem, it will get worse!! has it started cutting out yet when rolling to a stop? the code on vagcom was exactly the same as mine too....we worked out it was either the cam sensor and crank...crank was the obvious

    tis an arse to change and make sure you get the right bit if buying pattern..... its located just above the oil filter and secured by two bolts, once you remove these it can be an arse to get it out...once done though your onto a winner - good luck

    personally id rule out the coils as these would flag a seperate fault....
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  33. #32
    1animal1's Avatar
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    as an add on cos ive just been arsed to read the whole thread...crank sensor can make it hard to restart if it conks out....although with mine it worked fine only giving me probs when it conked out....starting from cold was fine until it got warm 2-3miles away then started playing up gradually getting worse
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  34. #33
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    This the page you looked at Lee?

    http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/17748/P1340/004928

    If you get hold of VAGCOM or maybe your handheld does the same, this may also be of use to you..

    http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/

    The wiki suggests using a measuring block to determine if the timing chain is an issue... camshaft stuff appears to be blocks 090 to 098 but I couldn't tell you which one to use...

    Someone with ElsaWin handy may be able to shed some light on the diagnostic procedure for this...

    <tuffty/>
    Yeah.. that's the wiki page.

    I can view measuring blocks with my scanner too.. I've got ElsaWin so I'll have a look. Cheers mate.

    Got VAGCOM too but my lead is dead at the mo.

  35. #34
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1animal1 View Post
    as an add on cos ive just been arsed to read the whole thread...crank sensor can make it hard to restart if it conks out....although with mine it worked fine only giving me probs when it conked out....starting from cold was fine until it got warm 2-3miles away then started playing up gradually getting worse
    No starting/stalling problems yet so there may be something else going on here.

    I will check the timing chain measuring blocks and if they are fine I'll swap the crank sensor.. if it's not the crank sensor then I'll just put it on ebay I suppose.

  36. #35
    AUDI S3, REVO MAPPED 260 bhp

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    Hi im lee's mate that has bought the S3. doesn't seem to have any other problems, and no warning lights on the dash. very fustrating though, as i want to test its full perfomance.

  37. #36
    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    OI OI... get in there

 

 

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