My minor modding thread

[<tuffty/>]

Thanks Kev... still leaning towards the Liquid at the moment I must admit... Gadgets are cool :D

<tuffty/>

[Byzan Pics]

Liquid group buy FTW...

Gadgets are coooooll

[S3 Paul]

Im not 100% up on the liquid s3,
But doesnt it read the ecu??
like the same things as vag com?
I have decided a would rather fit standalone gauges ... ive fitted an innovate boost gauge and an AFR gauge from them too,
That way... if a sensor on the car goes duff i will be able to see the diffrence in the readings. One pillar mount. one vent mount.

[badger5]

you going to fit maf gauge too if doubling up checking is a concern (not aware of such a gauge mind you)

are you expecting differences? Watching 2 gauges and driving is not easy or safe.. I hate trying to watch stuff when on the loud pedal

one gauge is nice when read off ecu (liqui) and a check what its does under boost etc..
all in one is nice

limitation on boost of factory map sensor to 2550mb tho for those running more

there's vids and stuff on the liqui on their webby.. quite cool gizmo.. ranks high on the i want scale (if i ran stock management) - full on LCD dash in badgerwagen so my gizmo fix is appeased

[S3 Paul]

Well i can see what the boost is doing and what the fueling is like at a glance. not going through a menu.
My car used to throw up preasure drop fault codes before , I checked every pipe. replaced all the vacume pipes... dv... and much more. still got the fault code. But after digging deeper it was a faulty sensor. A liquid gauge or vag com would read the fault from the sensor...
People have diffrent views on what the want. and how they want it dispayed... that was my choice.

[badger5]

each to their own

[1animal1]

i like the liquid.....saw it on warleydaddy's car when he dropped the TIP i bought off at mine....a doddle to fit (he took it off and plugged into mine at the time within half an hour)....really nice item, his was the vent fit as opposed to the modded vent...id go for the modded vent though as you could see slightly where the vent blades had been removed.... bloody good bit of kit from what i saw...

[s3_kev]

Well i can see what the boost is doing and what the fueling is like at a glance. not going through a menu.
My car used to throw up preasure drop fault codes before , I checked every pipe. replaced all the vacume pipes... dv... and much more. still got the fault code. But after digging deeper it was a faulty sensor. A liquid gauge or vag com would read the fault from the sensor...
People have diffrent views on what the want. and how they want it dispayed... that was my choice.

i have to agree with your point of view and think its a valid point to put out there,

[S3 Paul]

I wasnt slaggin anybodys views or products...
I like the S3 gauge. do you unplug the gauge to plug vag com in?? can you hide the plug ?

[badger5]

whats the liqui gauge like in daylight shining? can you still clearly see the screen or does is reflect badly or anything?

[1animal1]

It plugs directly into the port which you obviously click out of the dash panel....so yes you would have to unplug it to plug in the laptop... from memory the screen had good visibility, it was a sunny day and was easy enough to read in direct sunlight, i would imagine it would have been better with the door shut due to the tinted glass..... the screen had a matt finish so as to reduce glare, all in all its a damn good product IMO with what seems a crappy lil joystick - it's actually really easy to manouver

Best bet is to mail warleydaddy to see what the long term useability is like....

Tim

[djdougalno1]

someone set up a group buy i want one they sound cool

[1animal1]

they are, only thing i didnt like due to me not having full vagcom was the bits it didnt include such as the functions to log ....not sure id have used them but think for the money i could have had vagcom which would have served a better purpose overall

the liquid is for show or for modded cars id say where you need to know the info its delivers..... personally i didnt think id get the use out of it on my mapped only S3

[<tuffty/>]

Im not 100% up on the liquid s3,
But doesnt it read the ecu??
like the same things as vag com?
I have decided a would rather fit standalone gauges ... ive fitted an innovate boost gauge and an AFR gauge from them too,
That way... if a sensor on the car goes duff i will be able to see the diffrence in the readings. One pillar mount. one vent mount.

I believe Liquid was inspired by VAGCOM and the desire to have VAGCOM like features without having a lappy with you. Uses the cars sensors (as VAGCOM does).... from the website...

Our first product "liquid" was originally designed for the Audi TT Mk1, inspired by the capabilities of vag-com, but providing a solution to the problem of convenience and graphical display of the diagnostic data.

do you unplug the gauge to plug vag com in?? can you hide the plug ?

The diag socket is easily removed from the lower part of the dash from what I have seen and from what I have read you can plug Liquid in and hide the wiring behind the lower dash panel. This would mean of course that you would need to pull all this out again to plug VAGCOM back in but tbh Liquid does pretty much all most people need from VAGCOM bar logging so if you really did need to use VAGCOM it would be worth the effort to fiddle to get Liquid unplugged and VAGCOM plugged in...What I may look to do is try and get another socket and wire it in parallel, fit a switch in between the power wires (as Liquid must get power from the OBD socket) so that way Liquid can be left plugged in behind the dash and if I need to use VAGCOM then I can switch Liquids power off and use VAGCOM in the original port socket

someone set up a group buy i want one they sound cool

Liquid group buy FTW...

Gadgets are coooooll

... on it!!!

<tuffty/>

[S£]

I have to admit the liquid is a great bit of kit but the novelty has worn off with it now and it has a home in the glove box in it's bare form, I did have it mock fitted for a while but at night it reflected in my drivers window right in view of my wing mirror so it didn't stay there for long, I just comes out now to scan mine & friends cars when needed.

One good thing about them is jim is always updating the software on it so it can do more things, just lately you can now have 4 guages at the same time like intake temp, exhaust temp, oil & water temp boost vs requested boost is also handy, oh and he's just added a rev counter to it too!!

Nice thread anyway tuffty!

[1animal1]

forgot you had one mate

[<tuffty/>]

I have initiated a discussion with Jim at race diagnostics and a group buy is feasible. I need to look into how it will work as the A4/S4 guys are interested too.... I will put it all together in a separate thread as I don't want to let my build thread go off topic with that...

Small update... discovered a small weep from the new fuel pump but had a feeling this would happen as I didn't have the right sized copper washer too hand for the larger pump fitting and 'opened up' one with a smaller hole. This will be fixed at the weekend where I will look to adjust the DP too to give my a bit more clearence for the driveshaft.

I have now booked myself in for a dyno run for Friday 30th October so will post the results of that next weekend after its done

<tuffty/>

[Byzan Pics]

That fuel pump causing trouble again huh!

[<tuffty/>]

no, just the guy fitting it... LOL!! (thats me btw for the uninitiated)

<tuffty/>

[<tuffty/>]

Took delivery of my Liquid S3 kit from Race Diagnostics the other day. I realise I have set up a group buy but seeing as the uptake is a bit slow I just went ahead and bought one anyway.

Only really been faffing as I have not had much chance to fit it properly yet. Getting myself sorted for the dyno run on Friday so once that is done then I will assess the Liquid properly and take pics etc for a write up...

Roll on Friday :D

<tuffty/>

[JS1500]

I will assess the Liquid properly and take pics etc for a write up...

That would be appreciated mate. I'm going to get one soon.
Is yours going to be in the vent?

[<tuffty/>]

I have 'fitted' it into the centre vent for now as I am still running my mechanical boost gauge in my drivers vent.

<tuffty/>

[bansheeboyo]

hi paul
hows it going
would just like to thank you for the speedy postang of the turbo and what not.
hows the car going
any vids of the beast yet?

[<tuffty/>]

hi paul
hows it going
would just like to thank you for the speedy postang of the turbo and what not.
hows the car going
any vids of the beast yet?

Hi mate... no probs, I wrapped it all up as best I could so the courier would damage it

Cars going fine, off to the dyno in the morning for the moment of truth...

I will have my camera and video camera too so hopefully get some decent footage of the car doing some runs on the dyno...

<tuffty/>

[paul26982]

just relised awsome gti do the liquids too

[Mings]

Can't wait to see the video's of this beast!!! :D
Thanks for the build log Tuffty, been dead interesting to read and see what goes into this kinda stuff

[<tuffty/>]

Been a very long day so gonna keep it fairly short as I am going to collapse into the sofa...

First of all the N75 pipe blew (sure it was tight) which threw us for a bit then VAGCOM was reporting requested and actual boost of around 1.5bar but my boost gauge was only showing one so changed the MAP sensor to see if that was the prob and it wasn't... check for obvious boost leaks but couldn't find any so will look properly when I can. Might be the actuator being problematic or maybe the N75... will look into this and see if I can find the missing half a bar of boost...

After a few logging runs, it became evident that the injectors were getting near to being on all the time... we hit 20ms on time when 22/23ms is just on.... looking at a 4bar FPR I think to give me some overhead.

Anyhoo... settled on 1 bar of boost for now until I can find out what the prob is and did some runs...

383bhp and 326ftlbs torques....

Both curves are as smooth as you like with power climbing on boost from around 3600rpm to peak at 6600rpm, torque climbing from a similar figure to a peak at 5500rpm.

Car feels very nice to drive now...

EGT's are a bit of a problem getting a little high... changing the exhaust should help keep them in check and I won't be looking for more boost just yet as they will get worse and cause probs.

Considering how much power she is producing on just 1 bar of boost, there isn't much I need to do to get 400bhp so I will look at making a few tweaks to sort any potential reliability issues out and then tweak the boost up a bit.

The extra boost will of course give me more torque so at least while its a little on the low side my clutch will last a bit longer ;P

<tuffty/>

[voorhees]

383bhp and 326ftlbs torques....

Both curves are as smooth as you like with power climbing on boost from around 3600rpm to peak at 6600rpm, torque climbing from a similar figure to a peak at 5500rpm.

That is impressive,I spoke to Vince about 2'ish and he said about the pipes and maf so no dyno then.
Paul are you happy with the power or is it a matter of wait and see after a few weeks ?

[Byzan Pics]

I tell you what i want (Nay NEED) that power in my car. Overtaking on the way home was such a chore as your car just breezes past things, no fuss and then stands on it's nose.

It was a long day, i feel we have learnt a lot from today one way or another. I think i may well get Vince to sort mine out when i get to the hybrid.


That SL55 AMG drivers face must have been a picture..........

[<tuffty/>]

I am happy with the results of the whole project tbh... when you consider all I have essentially done is bolt a big turbo on with no fancy and expensive extras (other than the essentials to support the turbo), its a great power increase. I am only really bothered about the little probs as they get in the way of enjoying the car at the moment... Once I have those snaggy bits sorted I think I will be happier but thats only due to me being so OCD about getting stuff right. Some people can live with these little issues but I don't consider myself doing a good job unless its to a standard I am happy with...

Little more to do and a bit more power to be had... 400bhp is now a realistic target while retaining the original goal of lots of power without turning it into something form the Fast and Furious...

<tuffty/>

[A3Tom]

All sounds very nice indeed

Thats some big power

[Byzan Pics]

Tom, seriously, it's crazy.

0 to 70 is a snap



I have some vids and pics, but will let Paul sort his shiz out first, it's been a long arse day,lol

[A3Tom]

Tom, seriously, it's crazy.

0 to 70 is a snap

Quality.....if he gets the fuzz behind him he can just leave them for dust now No way an S60's going to keep up with that

[<tuffty/>]

Quality.....if he gets the fuzz behind him he can just leave them for dust now No way an S60's going to keep up with that

Nope... they will just be waiting on the door step when I get home

Does the traffic guys make allowances for trying to upset M3 drivers? Its a fair defence I feel

<tuffty/>

[A3Tom]

Nope... they will just be waiting on the door step when I get home

"My number plate just fell off, officer"

Does the traffic guys make allowances for trying to upset M3 drivers? Its a fair defence I feel

<tuffty/>

All I can say is that they should look at every case on its own 'merit' and then decide the most appropriate course of action to take with the driver. That could be a ticket, it could be a quiet word

[A3Tom]

Oh, and every BMW driver I've ever stopped has given it large to me (BMW drivers eh?), so that excuse may or may not stand up if BMW drivers are the same all over the country

[<tuffty/>]

Judging from the looks I was getting from the SLK driver today, an M3 drivers face would be a picture ;P

"soz officer, that M3 driver kinda deserved it... look at his little face!!!!"

<tuffty/>

[<tuffty/>]

After yesterdays fun and games I spent a bit of time trying to find out whats going on...

Bill suggested checking the boost pressure post MAP sensor to see if the the actual boost being made is correct... connected a boost gauge to the N75 outlet on the top charge pipe and took it for a run up the road... my gauge showed 1 bar and the other one showed nearly 2 bar... something was definitely not right...

Was gearing up to take the bumper off and check all the boost pipes when I noticed the FPR pipe looked a little shabby so thought I would just look that quickly as that is where the gauge is tee'd from and bugger me...



...pipe had split under the manifold... I checked these before refitting the mani and deemed them ok... looking at it, the vacuum pipes coming off the end of the manifold (hard pipes) have been rubbing up against it and bingo!!

So replaced this and bang.... 1.7/1.8bar of boost, quick map change and the car feels even better than before.... much better pull in third now

While I was messing about under the bonnet, I also tidied up the N249 bypass by removing the pipes and vacuum reservoir but still leaving the N249 valve electrically connected to stop the ECU from complaining...





Going to do some logging tomorrow to see how the adaption is coping with fuelling and maybe tweak the map some more....

Just goes to show how much trouble one little pipe can cause... it was giving erroneous boost readings and affecting the fuelling as the FPR wasn't working properly which incorrect pressure... Hoping that logging the injectors tomorrow will show that they are not maxing out anymore...

<tuffty/>

[Byzan Pics]

It's nice when a plan comes together.

[S3 Paul]

I had a problem with the pipe to my FPR i replaced it with a silicone pipe as it would be more resistent to wear.

[1animal1]

ok dummy here

what the hell is an FPR

[S3 Paul]

Fuel preasure regulator.
At the end of the injector rail. It has a small vacume pipe that comes off it,
The pipe goes under the inlet and has a habit of rubbing through.

[1animal1]

oh yeah, thats the first pipe i ever had to replace

silly thing is i knew it as the fuel pressure reg too haha...cheers mate

[badger5]

when little annoying hoses pop off and wear thru, it sends trying to map the thing into wild goose chase mode.. as Paul has seen 1st hand. the silliest of hoses being off, makes the fueling completely off..

The Fuel Pressure Regulator (3bar) also runs on vacuum, dropping to 2.5bar on idle, or in the case of tufftys, 3bar on idle, so now its fixed, its too lean down bottom, with adaption working hard to pull it back to its lambda 1.. and under boost, as it was under fueling & lean cos it was at best 4bar @ reggy where it should have been 4.8bar, its lean under boost hence injector duty cycles at one point being said to be nearly at their max.

logging and adjusting now, to try and pull things back again. all takes time, which is ££ when at the rollers as per Friday.

It desperately needs a flowing exhaust on it. Stock(tired) old rear box is choking its flow, which in turn is unwanted backpressure whent he GT30R want to rip, the revs and peak power is earlier than it should be, and egt's become a factor at this point.

its a nice driving setup. spool is good for stock bore, non mod engine.
some fmic pipework adjustment to aid flow will help things also.
bill

[<tuffty/>]

...so in conclusion... lol...

I need an exhaust now, as Bill says its causing me probs. Vince at Stealth Racing was quite surprised when he found out I was still running an OEM exhaust and still producing that kind of power.

Might try the same guy A3Tom got his system from, failing that MIJ... I want a 3" system really so see where I can get a good price... also depends on the silencers too... some custom exhaust places have been known to use 2.5" pipework but the silencers have had smaller internal pipework which defeats the object really... will do a bit of research.

I have also spoken to Alex from AH Fabrications where I got my FMIC made up. I am looking to replace the 51mm outlets with 60mm O/D pipes out the end tanks that curve round the slam panel like the 51mm silicon does. The 51mm silicon is around 61mm O/D so in theory, if they fit then so should the alloy. That will mean I can retain 60mm charge pipework more or less all the way round. The only bit I won't be changing is the MAP sensor tube which is a particular shape to fit around between the lights and the battery. I may look into replicating this at some point but not just yet.

Seeing as my car was producing 383bhp with a boost leak and with the fuelling not yet right, 400bhp doesn't seem that unachievable now. Will look to sort the exhaust as soon as cash flow allows and same goes for the FMIC pipework. Then back on the rollers for another try.

<tuffty/>

[MintyS3]

Just shows you really. If you can flow 380+bhp through the standard system why would we upgrade it when just running a k04!

[<tuffty/>]

I don't have access to a scanner so apologies for the poor quality but here is a pic of the power graph...



<tuffty/>

[badger5]

Just shows you really. If you can flow 380+bhp through the standard system why would we upgrade it when just running a k04!

Its seriously restricting the GT30, its not happily flowing at all...

[<tuffty/>]

As Bill says... granted its producing good power with the OEM exhaust on but the back pressure is causing high EGT's and is effecting power and efficiency quite badly now.

If it was just about the performance then I prob wouldn't worry about it right now and change the exhaust when its knackered... trouble is the high EGT's actually threw a fault code (EGT max temp exceeded) and thats set at 1100 degrees. High EGT's normally indicate lean mixture which isn't the case here, the gases are being backed up and not getting out quickly enough thus spiking the EGT's.

In this case changing the exhaust is necessary due to exceeding the limit of power its capable of flowing effectively... Its not just hurting performance, its a potential engine breaker at this point...

Looking at a 3" SS system to sort this out...

<tuffty/>

[Dani_B19]

Let us know how you go on with the new fabrication of the FMIC when you get round to it tufty, if the new set up works ill be following, when my car's fixed lol.