My minor modding thread

Managed to get some time on my car this weekend... got her on the ramp so I could change the haldex oil and reposition the DP that was hitting the subframe due to one too many launches :D... Anyhoo, I also noticed the inner CV boot had split so ended up changing that too...

Today I put her on the dyno... plan was to see where we were on the revised map... After a few runs we got her up to 352 bhp... this was at around 22psi so pretty happy with that but it was evident that the boost control was a little all over the place so need to work out how to deal with that..

While the car was 'dyno ready' I thought it would be rude not to try the SEM so fitted that on although I am not sure I have made it completely air tight...

Ran up the car and after a bit of tweaking got her up to 374bhp... boost control is still a tad variable and I was seeing 2bar on the gauge driving home so will look into that later...

Some graphs as I have not posted any for a while...

tuffty-s3-sem-r32-2-20110717.jpg


tuffty-s3-sem-r32-1-20110717.jpg


Did a load of logging so going to trawl through that and work out where we go next...

<tuffty/>
 
Nice, what happens at c4.8k for the bump on the power graph?

Want one now?;)

Ps it holds torque nicely
 
Last edited:
Dane said:
Nice, what happens at c4.8k for the bump on the power graph?

Want one now?;)

Ps it holds torque nicely
Click to expand...

Its most likely a flow/boost thing... just a characteristic of the hardware I have... seen it a few times on 20v's coinsides with boost peak etc but will try and sort out some comparative graphs between mine, Welly's, the blue Ibiza and whatever else seems relevant...


S3 Nattie said:
Lag is it not.

Paul, what's the A/R ratio of your turbo.
Click to expand...

Lag? not sure what you mean mate... its no slouch tbh... spool is pretty impressive considering... the hotside is a T25/0.64ar... its essentially a GT2871r set of housings but its been modded for the 60mm turbine of the GT3071 rather than the 56,5mm one of the compact GT30... my power is now hampered by this I reckon... I do plan to go external gate and maybe looking at changing the hotside from this..
ATP-HSG-005_450.jpg


...to this...

ATP-HSG-042_450.jpg


...and is described as...
"Turbine housing, we call it "T25 Plus", T25 inlet flanged, T31-V-Band outlet, Externally wastegated, flows like full T3. Available for full size GT3071R/GT3076R turbine wheel. Allows full T3 flow but on T25 flanged manifold."

W3STY said:
Nice work Tuffty.
Click to expand...

Ta mate... most power she has made to date on Bill's dyno...

<tuffty/>
 
Although your boost does wander a little, the way the torque builds and holds at the top i bet it still feels mightily impressive from inside! Top work as always tufty!!

I like the look of that T25/T31 hotside!!
 
Nice work mate- looks as though the SEM improved the power quite well, all things being equal. Getting towards that 400 mark!

I like that external gate turbine housing too, not just the fact it is more compact and will flow better but also the fact that the access to the bolt holes is a lot more open than the interally gated one which is a pig to tighten up/undo as the extra section for the wastegate covers the ****** bolt holes. I was almost going to go external gate at one point but couldn't justify forking out another £700ish for the new housing and external wastegate when I already had the internal gated housing. In hindsight it would have made things a lot easier when it came to freeing up room. How much is that housing and what is the outlet size on it? Is it 2.5"?
 
MUSH said:
Although your boost does wander a little, the way the torque builds and holds at the top i bet it still feels mightily impressive from inside! Top work as always tufty!!

I like the look of that T25/T31 hotside!!
Click to expand...

Thanks, does feel pretty good... surprising how quick she is now...

Andy123 said:
Nice work mate- looks as though the SEM improved the power quite well, all things being equal. Getting towards that 400 mark!

I like that external gate turbine housing too, not just the fact it is more compact and will flow better but also the fact that the access to the bolt holes is a lot more open than the interally gated one which is a pig to tighten up/undo as the extra section for the wastegate covers the ****** bolt holes. I was almost going to go external gate at one point but couldn't justify forking out another £700ish for the new housing and external wastegate when I already had the internal gated housing. In hindsight it would have made things a lot easier when it came to freeing up room. How much is that housing and what is the outlet size on it? Is it 2.5"?
Click to expand...

Not sure of a UK price but its available here...
T25 Plus, T25 Inlet Flanged, T31-V Band Outlet Turbine Housing : atpturbo.com

It is 2.5" but I will just go straight to a 3" using a stainless cone type thingy that Bill has kicking around...

badger5 said:
we have a new file tuffty ready
Click to expand...

Cool... :thumbsup:

<tuffty/>
 
Not yet... not had cash/time/cash... and time :)

Plans are afoot but I'm not in a hurry atm... will be getting the mapping sorted in the first instance and get her running properly on the current setup then hopefully in the new year I'll get on with the external gate etc...

Really want to see what she will do on the current setup as I know mapping is playing a big part in why she isn't running right but still looking to do the tial etc...

<tuffty/>
 
374 ain't bad in the meantime though mate. Have you fitted the SEM now or was it just a trial fit?
 
AndyC-S3 said:
374 ain't bad in the meantime though mate. Have you fitted the SEM now or was it just a trial fit?
Click to expand...

Was a trial fit mate.... can't justify the cost of that atm not at least until I know I have eeked out all I can from the current setup...

<tuffty/>
 
As is typical at this time of year, I have hit a small snag with my beloved car....

Investigated an exhaust blow on the old girl at the weekend thinking the v-band on the downpipe had come loose (as this has happened before) only to discover the turbo itself rocking on the manifold...! brilliant.....

Managed to get a socket on one nut (the only one visible and accessible without head removal) and it turned a bit but didn't feel nice... guessing the little buggers have stretched and/or loosened a bit...

I wasn't planning on doing much more than getting the mapping sorted this side of christmas but its a head off job realistically to sort this problem so I may as well just get it all done right...

This means going external gate and changing the hotside etc... been planning to do it but not until next year due to financial reasons but as Bill said to me Saturday... lets just get it done and finished!!...

The car is off the road for the time being but stuff is being sorted and will be looking to take a week off work at some point before christmas to get the work done...

Shes due an oil change anyway lol...

Will of course update once I have the bits ready :)

<tuffty/>
 
Good and bad new but I'm sure you will get it sorted and back better than before, External gate is the way to go.

This thread had been a great bit of info for me and my conversion

My car is off the road too having a new clutch the same as your set up and other performance upgrades, Very tempted in some IE cams buts the price that puts me off a little.
 
Good news!!!! hotside has arrived!!!


Not so good news.... seems the core centreline (measured from the flange) is a little higher... this means the turbo will sit lower being underslung and its room I haven't got to play with... around 6mm possibly but will check properly tomorrow... boooo! :(

Just to remind you of the tightness...
20090916_CRW_3681.jpg


20090916_CRW_3695.jpg


20090913_CRW_3640.jpg


All very tight... however I think I can get it all to fit (not that I have much choice tbh) with a bit of jiggery pokery and potentially a bit of strategic housing clocking etc

Will take some pics and do some measuring tomorrow...

<tuffty/>
 
Rubbish. I've got a nice ko4 hybrid here that's a bit smaller Paul, I don't mind swapping to help out with your clearance issues!
 
Good luck Paul hope it all works out mate im sure between you and bill you will get round the issues :icon_thumright:
 
Had a look at the hotside today to see whats what etc...
IMG_20111112_130620.jpg


Looks the biz and certainly looks like it will flow much better than the current hotside... its supposed to be T25 fitment but the throat looks almost the same size as a T3!! here it is next to a T25 from a GT28...
IMG_20111112_125947.jpg


T25...
IMG_20111112_130752.jpg


T25+
IMG_20111112_130735.jpg


...and in comparison to Bill's GT35 which is T3...
IMG_20111112_133354.jpg


All good then... if all goes well then this in theory should be good for low 400's hp wise...

Obviously with the hotside being a tad larger there will be a few challenges with fitting... I did measure up against the GT28 hotside and alignment seems to be affected both in height and looks like it with push the compressor over more too which could be problematic :(
IMG_20111112_130533.jpg


IMG_20111112_144227.jpg


But.... I had a quick look at an S3 in the workshop at the moment thats having essentially the turbo I started off with and the housing is differnt again... its the same style as the GT28 but appears larger... this could well mean that the location differences between the hotside I have and the new one may not be as bad as we thought but I am not going to know until I get it all apart...

Anyhoo... still collecting bits ready to crack on with the work which may not happen for a couple of weeks as yet due to Bill's workload...

<tuffty/>
 
Tuffty,

Isn't the the GT25 used on the Rover T series & the GT28 used on the SR20DET's?

Pat
 
pats3poa said:
Tuffty,

Isn't the the GT25 used on the Rover T series & the GT28 used on the SR20DET's?

Pat
Click to expand...
well yes, as such, but Tufty is comparing flange designations here, the T3 is the large size flange and the t25 is the designation of the smaller one.

Then he was comparing the hotside from a GT28rs for comparisons sake. Well spotted though
 
I know he was, I have a GT28rs in the shed that I bought for my Tomcat years ago but as usual as with all things eBay It has something wrong with it & has play in the shaft!
But if it's any use.......

Pat
 
Rosso TT said:
Hey tuffty, can't you machine the head side of the manifold a bit on the angle so that lift the centreline of the turbo?
Click to expand...

Andrew@A.L.D said:
I would machine the flanges on the turbo to manifold on both sides as i'm sure there's meat there to do so
Click to expand...

Machining is a possibilty... won't know for sure until I start the work and mock up off the car... Bill has an old 6 speed box complete with bevel box to fit to a block so we can have a look at it properly... plan to review all the pipes as I have had issues with water pipes in the past and I reckon the oil drain will need a tweak too...

Knowing what we know now and the issues I have had (albeit it not major ones) there is room for improvement and I am in no rush to have the car on the road at the moment... I want to make sure its all as good as it can be using what I have learnt over the past couple of years...

<tuffty/>
 
Nice project man! Got a lot of info and tips for my future plans..!

Damn, I cant wait the day when my old GT2871R changes to some real turbo :ermm:
 
Small update.... the car has been off the road now for a month or so as the blowing was getting worse so rather than have the turbo fall on the floor I have left it until I have managed to collect all the parts I need to sort fitting the new hotside/ext gate etc...

Good news... I start next weekend :D

Managed to blag a ramp at Bills for enough time to get the head off and there is space for my car to stay there over Christmas while we sort out fitting the newly configured turbo and doing the necessary fabrication work...

I am feeling pretty excited about this latest evolution of my build... I had thought I was having issues with the build as I didn't seem to be getting any closer to 400hp as I had hoped but recently running up a couple of other S3's with the same spec turbo as my original one (GT30r) and then making around 375hp made me realise that in fact mine hasn't been too far away from what appears to be the limit or as close to the limit for this turbo configuration...

Seeing as my current turbo CHRA is now a full on GT3071r with the larger turbine and I am going external gate I am hoping this will give me the boost control and flow capability to get me too and a bit beyond 400hp...

I am still using the underslung configuration with the cast log manifold but its a big ol' beast and should flow pretty well and has a spot (once machined) ready for the Tial wastegate...

This same turbo made 447hp in an Ibiza we built recently but that did have 83mm pistons, a SEM inlet and tubular exhaust manifold.

I doubt I will see that level of power as the log mani won't be as efficient as a tubular one but I do plan an update to my charge system sometime in the new year prompted by Andrew@ald's inlet manifold project...

In fact I just bought this from ebay for £5.60 :D
aeb_inlet001.jpg


Plan is to replace the top charge pipe with 63mm alloy (less the dent thats in the OEM one) and replace the passenger side charge pipe work from 60mm to 63mm (mainly due to the different angle the TB will be on the fabricated inlet manifold so will need to do something with it anyway)...

Will look to get the charge pipe, inlet and cam cover powder coated the same colour once I have cleaned and smoothed the welds...

Will of course provide updates with pics etc as I get on...

<tuffty/>
 
Do i see another Xcessive manifold been made here?

I'll get some better pics of mine as I had to fabricate a tight angle 90 degree pipe from the T/B to to map sensor pipe

I used a 3in to 3in Greedy pipe form IKE engineering, drilled a 40mm hole in the side and welded a pipe for my new super size forged D/V
 
Last edited:
Andrew@A.L.D said:
Do i see another Xcessive manifold been made here?

I'll get some better pics of mine as I had to fabricate a tight angle 90 degree pipe from the T/B to to map sensor pipe

I used a 3in to 3in Greedy pipe form IKE engineering, drilled a 40mm hole in the side and welded a pipe for my new super size forged D/V
Click to expand...

Humm... when I fitted the SEM it was tight and fitted a SEM to a TT last week where bill made up a special adaptor to go from the OEM MAP tube... I'll see if he tool a pic... fairly sure he would have done..

But yes, I do intend to look into making this manifold... :D


pats3poa said:
Can't wait to see the results on the next stage tuffty

Pat
Click to expand...

You and me both mate... been a few years now but the is (mostly) in sight... lol

Then of course comes WMI, inlet manifold, revised charge pipes, TFSI coil packs yadda yadda... never ending but always tweaking ;P

<tuffty/>
 
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