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Thread: AH Fab / Ebay / Forge S3/A3 FMIC installs (image heavy)

  1. #81
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    I still stand by the original design and the reason for doing it...

    'IF' I find the 60mm pipes are a workable option without compromising what I originally set out to do, then I will consider getting the cooler modified. The fitment criteria for the cooler still stands, it must retain the fogs and require little if any modification to the bumper to retain the OEM look.

    The AH cooler (and Forge for that matter) is still one of the best options for getting a FMIC on an S3 with little effort and retaining fogs etc....

    <tuffty/>
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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufftybloke View Post
    The AH cooler (and Forge for that matter) is still one of the best options for getting a FMIC on an S3 with little effort and retaining fogs etc....

    <tuffty/>
    If you do fit yours with the 60mm alloy pipes imo the AH one will be better than the Forge.I still think it would be even better if it was a little shorter as there isnt alot of airflow if any going through the top part of your core.


  4. #83
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    how woulod reducing the surface area of the core improve its heat exchange?
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  5. #84
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    the pipes angled like that would not work would foul the fogs! Also as i did say AGES ago why limit the cooler by making it smaller it will NOT decrease the price as its the cost of the core.... i can see what your saying about the bottom parts BUT its no biggy really tbh will flow fine as it is for what most people want..

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  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by james0808 View Post
    The clue is in the name "Heat Exchange"
    The intercooler need a passing airflow to exchange the heat into,without the passing air it just gets warmer and warmer from the charge.
    The green area is optimum airflow.
    The red area is useless as there in little or no passing airflow.
    With a little adjustment to the end tanks and inlet/outlet it could be a very efficent core with what i suspect will be a very low pressure drop,'IF' the core is as good as claimed.
    good picture, and backed up with temperature measurements? top section will not have as much aiflow to heat exchnage but will still conduct heat into the very ductile alumimium core assembly..

    On Forge intercoolers, and my own of several years there is an internal deflector plate on the inlet of the core which guides air to the top as well as the lower half.. to help distribute the airflow for as uniform a heat exchange as possible..

    I dont know if I understood your post right, but were you suggesting a smaller (not so tall core?)? I would think that to not be an improvement over the one pictured personally.
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  7. #86
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    It will conduct heat from the top but no where near as fast as the turbo is putting it in,so will still be hot.
    Why would you want to deflect hot air to the top of this core if it is relying on conduction/convection to cool?
    Last edited by james0808; 5th September 2009 at 16:26.

  8. #87
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    I think the debate here, is one of semantics of a perfect core vs a practical installed upgrade behind the S3's front end. compromise

    Better than the twin smic by a mile in logged temperatures before and after, which is the important real world aspect.

    talking inytercoolers:
    add sides to the fmic to trap air, and the upper part of the core will receive some air.
    the heat exchange efficiency is one of the 'difference' in temp, and with the higher top temp, but lower airflow, there will likely be an efficiency balance of sorts as there is a greater temp delta up top, but less airflow...

    It will conduct heat into the core generally, and the portion of the core receiving more airflow will exchange it faster. without that top part of the core, the heat exchange is just reliant on the airflow section (green). Are you suggestion the core if just the size of the green bit will work equally as well as the whole thing?
    Maybe the manufacturers should only have made the water radiators as big as the airflow they see also.? {joke btw}

    i dont subscribe to making the core smaller, helping. agreed the portion with more airflow can receive more air and heat exchange... remembering heat exchange effeciency is a function of the temperature difference. the core are pictured will heat exchange more in the airflow, I don there's any question on that, but making the rest of the core smaller does'nt serve a purpose either..

    here's a great thermal image of a non-internally deflected core in action.



    too small a core and the airflow thru the core can be so fast it does'nt have much time to heat exchange. I had this on an early core on my ibiza. bigger core worked better for me, even with some of behind the bumper. Same core now supports 2.4bar boost, 9000rpm engine, and GT35 strapped on. max ait's 45'C without watermeth running.

    Sides to the core to stop air escaping will help a lot in guiding the airflow thru the core.


    comparison of my what was too small for me vs current core



    regards
    bill
    Last edited by badger5; 5th September 2009 at 18:05.
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  9. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew@A.L.D View Post
    Fitted my Ebay cooler this weekend and the guide for it was very good

    Will post pics of mine when i get a new grill fitted as the front of the car looks crap right now
    looks like there is 3 s3_kev fmic out there now then lol, how did you find the results of the cooler

  10. #89
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    from doing logs on my intake temps with outside temp being 20'c it went from 40'c driveing casually then power down it went down and down to 26'c which i thought was good on a ko4 pushing 25psi and as you can see my fmic on the build at the start of this thread is large and most is behind the bumper but still works

  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    Are you suggestion the core if just the size of the green bit will work equally as well as the whole thing?
    I am suggesting a core without the red area and better designed end tanks,inlet-outlet(diffuser,Nozzle)will work better than the whole thing as it is now with equally if not lower AIT's and less pressure drop.



    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post

    i dont subscribe to making the core smaller, helping. agreed the portion with more airflow can receive more air and heat exchange... remembering heat exchange effeciency is a function of the temperature difference. the core are pictured will heat exchange more in the airflow, I don there's any question on that, but making the rest of the core smaller does'nt serve a purpose either..
    Keep in mind, that the merit of a core is its efficiency versus its internal drag characteristics(pressure drop).

    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post

    here's a great thermal image of a non-internally deflected core in action.
    Here's a couple of cfd images showing the difference between straight and angled inlets.Looking at the pic where i angled the inlet/outlet both remained in the same place so 'should' still work with keeping the fogs on an s3.




    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    too small a core and the airflow thru the core can be so fast it does'nt have much time to heat exchange.
    Very true but the AH core without the red area is still plenty big enough for the job an an s3.
    With a decent diffuser the airflow will slow down more than enough as it flows through the core.

    Quote Originally Posted by badger5 View Post
    I had this on an early core on my ibiza. bigger core worked better for me, even with some of behind the bumper. Same core now supports 2.4bar boost, 9000rpm engine, and GT35 strapped on. max ait's 45'C without watermeth running.

    Sides to the core to stop air escaping will help a lot in guiding the airflow thru the core.


    comparison of my what was too small for me vs current core



    regards
    bill
    How much further away is your Ibiza with 9000rpm,GT35 and 2.4 bar compared to an s3 with 6000rpm(not sure on the exact rpm),tiny k04 and around 1.5 bar.You simply cant compare the two.

    What power/torque did you get with the small core?

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    The proalloy one has an angled inlet, but only angled down on the drivers side. The inlet turns 90degrees backwards and sits rigth adjacent to the PAS cooling pipe right under the towing hook thread. Avoids the fog by miles that way.

  13. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by simch View Post
    The proalloy one has an angled inlet, but only angled down on the drivers side. The inlet turns 90degrees backwards and sits rigth adjacent to the PAS cooling pipe right under the towing hook thread. Avoids the fog by miles that way.
    Its the inlet that really needs the angle,you are better off trying to throw the air across the whole of the core rather than just allowing it to blast into one spot.
    Do you have any pics?

  14. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by s3_kev View Post
    looks like there is 3 s3_kev fmic out there now then lol, how did you find the results of the cooler

    It feels like there's is a bit more lag? but that due to pressure drop from the size of the cooler

    Feels better when on the motorway

    Good price also 110 inc P&P for the cooler and 220 ish for the pipes and hoses

    I going to see if i can get some air temp measurements of inlet and outlet

  15. #94
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    i didnt really notice to much lag when fitting mine just a huge improvement, what state of tune is your car???

  16. #95
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    N75j valve and thats about it, running more than standard boost, about 16psi.

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  18. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by james0808 View Post
    How much further away is your Ibiza with 9000rpm,GT35 and 2.4 bar compared to an s3 with 6000rpm(not sure on the exact rpm),tiny k04 and around 1.5 bar.You simply cant compare the two.

    What power/torque did you get with the small core?
    Very different era. small fmic and large one back then was IHI VF34, circa 320bhp
    same large core used to this day and supports the GT35 fine

    something works right me thinks

    Practical fitment into the cars is a higher priority for some than others.
    great theory, now make it actually fit an S3 and show the gains.

    you onto a design here..
    now you can prove it by getting it fab'd

    have fun
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    Just for the a3 guys out there, i asked awesome gti and they said the golf mk4 fmic fits the a3 one, with minor modding.

    plus the forge ones being only 550, or can get a turbo revs one for 200
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  20. #99
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    You'd be mad not to just do what Tuffty has done! The core is quality and can be made to your own measurements for 250, then get the hoses and clips off ebay.

    The Turbo Revs one seems a good option for the A3 though and I'm sure someone on here had one!
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  21. #100
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    Yer i know, but5 its the crash bar to, i would get a custom when one made if i could ask someone to help or cut out the crash bar, But yer tufty i think saved like 300, so the forge kit for me being 550 i would only save around 100
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  22. #101
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    buy an angle grinder for 15 off screwfix...it isnt the hardest job on the planet
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  23. #102
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    There is another option when it comes to intercoolers

    Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R intercooler

    Its almost the same size at the ebay cooler but the end tanks are better i would say, it uses the same size hoses and you can still keep the spots

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    LOL yer i doubt it is hard but isnt the crash bar important!, but i dont know what bends i need etc, guess i could find out, where would if find out from, ive tried looking on forge website, but nothing there
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  25. #104
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    dude, a few people on this forum have made this mistake before!

    Did you get the 200 turbo revs kit? if so, then the pipes actually fit pretty well!

    Those are the pipes that come in the kit, and once you know the new route they take, it's pretty easy to get them all to fit.
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  26. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    dude, a few people on this forum have made this mistake before!

    Did you get the 200 turbo revs kit? if so, then the pipes actually fit pretty well!

    Those are the pipes that come in the kit, and once you know the new route they take, it's pretty easy to get them all to fit.
    Yeah, it was the same kit, but the pipes looked nothing like yours! My god I wish they did! lol. Still, defo not that set of pipes. I guess that they sent the wrong kit by whoopsie.

    I considered sending it back, but being an impulsive t*at I didn't bother. Wanted it there and then so made it fit. I see they actually sell the pipe kit separately too, so will just get another one.

    Bum nuggets. Wish I'd sent it back now! Live 'n learn!
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  27. #106
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    my mate has that CAI pipe on his Leon....looks really good quality for an ebay item
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  28. #107
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    which CAI pipe tim? the CAI on this one is a carbonio. rediculously over priced carbon jobby that's no better than my 40 ebay job :D
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    Cheers Welly,
    you must deffo have got the wrong kit and yes you should have sent it back but i guess you're kinda the same as me, just want it done rather than waiting around.

    I don't see how you managed to use the original pancake pipe as with mine the throttle side is on the left and therefore you would have to go out of turbo through FMIC and up into engine bay and route the pipe back on itself into the intake.

    We remove the turbo intake manufold and the pancake pipe and from there it's a really simple and neat routing process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    I got one of these kits, whilst the intercoolr is fine, I was REALLY disappointed by the pipework... It seemed to be an assortment of universal pipes, rather than the 'A3 kit' that was advertised... Still, we made it fit!

    I like the way you've run the pipe down the right hand side of the engine, I ended up using the original charge pipe and pancake and then piped from there. Is that pipework custom made, or did you gt it from somewhere? If custom, can you send me a few photos via email since I really like the ways yours is done!!

    Good work!

  30. #109
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    Prawn, the one my neighbour bought off the bay was exactly the same as the one pictured...not sure on the name but it is definately a carbon one of the same diameter....sure he paid less than 100 for it
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  31. #110
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    have you please got a link to this item as am wanting to buy 1 for my a3 sport thanks

  32. #111
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    Nick!! dont forget i still need your expert help in fitting this kit to mine! :D

  33. #112
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    I guess I could be persuaded Liam! do you have all the bits ready now? All you need aside from the kit is a brass 8mm nipple for the N75 take off.

    it's also MUCH easier if you have a cold side relocation kit, but not 100% essential.....

    All the ones I've fitted so far have used cold side kits, as it just goes in nicer, and it's a worthwhile mod anyway.
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    here we go quattro rob:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-A3-A4-A6-...item5884201c38

    Quote Originally Posted by quattro rob View Post
    have you please got a link to this item as am wanting to buy 1 for my a3 sport thanks

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    Ive got a spare 200 going around Not sure if i could trust my self in doing it though, it doesnt sound TOO hard. How did you make the brackets ?
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  36. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by audi18tdan View Post
    I don't see how you managed to use the original pancake pipe as with mine the throttle side is on the left and therefore you would have to go out of turbo through FMIC and up into engine bay and route the pipe back on itself into the intake.
    As Terry Tibbs would say: Fack knows. You want to see it... I'm using about a million extra feet of pipework (well, about 6). Runs from the pancake outlet, under the rad, round the horns and into the FMIC. Then modified what I got sent to fit the inlet.

    Was.... interesting shall we say? lol
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  37. #116
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    dont mean to be rude here but i think that looks horrible i'd sooner spend another 100-200 and have it fitting far nicer and prob work alot better too just my 2pence

  38. #117
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    Well its been a long time coming...
    Its hopefully intercooler fitting day.
    Ive modded the crash rail. Made the fitting brackets.
    I also decided to trim the plastic covers that over hang the radiator to gain more clearance for the pipe work.
    Photos of this will be uploaded later as ive been in a bit of a rush to get to this point by today,
    The issue of sticking with 62mm pipe work will be hard faught today ! I dont want to downsize unless i realy have to,
    I dont want to chop anything or loose anything that will spoil the car. Im keeping the fogs and not cutting the bumper.
    To start with i will leave the cooler as it came which is the silver of the alloy its made from. If i decide its too OTT i may at a later date LIGHTLY spray it either dark grey or black.
    Fingers crossed today goes well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn View Post
    I guess I could be persuaded Liam! do you have all the bits ready now? All you need aside from the kit is a brass 8mm nipple for the N75 take off.

    it's also MUCH easier if you have a cold side relocation kit, but not 100% essential.....

    All the ones I've fitted so far have used cold side kits, as it just goes in nicer, and it's a worthwhile mod anyway.
    havnt got the brass nipple but can get one without a problem, would you mind helping me out then? pm me when you've got a spare day mate :D
    cheers

  40. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    If i decide its too OTT i may at a later date LIGHTLY spray it either dark grey or black.
    LOL - made me smile...

    good luck with your fitting
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  41. #120
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    Cant wait for this.
    What cooler you ended up using paul? Hope you manage to get 62mm all round.

 

 
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