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Thread: Mk5 Golf GTI

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    Dansmith's Avatar
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    Mk5 Golf GTI

    Ok driving home today on a dual carrage way when a mark V golf came up behind me at speed........ So as you do ya drop 2 gears and blast them off or so I thought.....

    I couldn't pull away from the guy infact I think he was gaining on me, the car didn't seem to have any mods from what I could see.

    My car has been re-mapped (revo) and I was very confused that I couldn't get away from the golf.... what they run 200bhp on the flywheel? wondered if anyone else has had this problem?

    I'm now going to go hang my head in shame for all audi s3 drivers.......I'm sorry

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    had to be mapped mate unless it was a ed30 but then id have to say it was mapped

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    was probally mapped, they map to like 260 i think, so at wheels itd be more powerful than the s3.

    not the same but i was racing with a mk4 gti, i done it though althought it did have 4 passengers than my 2!
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    i ran 298 bhp in my mk4 gti

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    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxxer1973 View Post
    i ran 298 bhp in my mk4 gti
    you must of done some serious turbo changing for that! no wonder why your not finding your S3 exsiting!

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    no wonder ya finding ya s3 boring
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by emery1990 View Post
    no wonder ya finding ya s3 boring
    great minds

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    its not all power, its power to weight, your S3 is best part 1500kgs, the golf is prob max 1400kgs, if it was mapped, you were lucky to not get creamed. Std they are 200 bhp arn't they on the 2.0 TFSI probably adds 50 bhp ish for a decent map

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    why is it so heavy!!
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dansmith View Post
    great minds

    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by emery1990 View Post
    why is it so heavy!!
    S3's are alot heavier than your 1.8t 4wd systems electric seats the list continues! really is one of the S3's Achilles heal's (yep there's a few)

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    well i was guessing the weight on the S3, as our 1.8TQS-6 Is 1480 KGs with heated seats, so with a few add ons the S3 must be a good 1500kgs

    The 4wd system is heavy as hell, dulls the car out nicely :-( , but improves the speed you can carry around corners so overall makes for a faster more sure footed car

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan A4 View Post
    well i was guessing the weight on the S3, as our 1.8TQS-6 Is 1480 KGs with heated seats, so with a few add ons the S3 must be a good 1500kgs

    The 4wd system is heavy as hell, dulls the car out nicely :-( , but improves the speed you can carry around corners so overall makes for a faster more sure footed car
    mine's 1480kg (book weight) the standard no quattro are in the 13's from memory.......My S3 has a serious disadvantage.....the 6"2 16 stone bloke making it even heavier!

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    dam mines light then for a qts im sure it says 1380 in the book

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcyp View Post
    dam mines light then for a qts im sure it says 1380 in the book

    Look on the plate under the bonnet, thats the weight of your actual car with it's build options etc

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    yaa thats what i ment byzan lol
    had a look at it today as we were compering the weight of an a3 to a mk3 gti
    but mine dont have heated seats soo that saved some weight
    untill i brought the car lol

  19. #18
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    I have come up against a few GTI's and never had a problem pulling lengths on them (they sound good though) . I don't think there is much weight difference between them both, GTI a bit heavier I think.
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    a ed 30 remapped is over 300 bhp through 2 wheels ......
    red to red black to black blue to bits

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    Quote Originally Posted by fingermouse View Post
    a ed 30 remapped is over 300 bhp through 2 wheels ......
    I beat one on the strip last year at Brunters but it wasn't remapped.
    I think an awful lot of factors can play a part so these 'my s3 v' threads are pie in the sky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dansmith View Post
    S3's are alot heavier than your 1.8t 4wd systems electric seats the list continues! really is one of the S3's Achilles heal's (yep there's a few)
    i have got the quattro system. by saying that its through 2 wheels, how much bhp is lost, a 300bhp car with 4wd can use all this, how much of it can a 2wd use then?
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    you can lose 60-100 bhp through the 4wd depending on set up i.e wheels
    red to red black to black blue to bits

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    I think there can be too much of a tendency for people to rely on bhp as a measure of a cars performance against another. You need to think about:

    1) Weight (bhp/tonne)
    2) Torque
    3) Driving style
    4) Transmission losses
    5) Car age / mileage
    6) Driving skill (reaction times)
    7) Gearing
    8) How recently car has been serviced

    Even cars that are the same technically but that have mods that mean they differ by 20-30bhp will not really demonstrate any real difference on the road. In the old days when you had 112bhp in a Golf Mk2 8v, you could catch out a badly driven 16v with 139bhp because of the engines torque bands / rev range requirements.

    Some you win, some you lose.
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    yer true.
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

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    ...and I know fine well my Mk3 GTI can out handle, out brake and out accellerate (just) a standard S3. Maybe not from a standing start...but certainly off roundabouts.
    So it doesn't surprise me that a Mk5 GTI, with lots more torque and a bit more power, in the right hands, can give an S3 a shock.

    The S3 isn't the giant slaying uber machine some seem to think.


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    So what you done to your MK3 GTI in order for it to out brake, out accelerate and out handle an standard S3. Standard MK3 GTI aint nothing special IMO.
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  28. #27
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    Hi Dan

    MK5 GTI is no push over! So i'm not really suprised it managed to keep up to you a little bit! But there no reason for you to be upset or disapointed in the way your S3 performed mate! Or Ashamed of yourself! That be stupid!
    Plus you dont know if the car had any kinda of tunning done to it. Or if it DSG it will be bit quicker due to the fast gear changes. Also as Warren said there other factors aswell. The person Driving Style, Driving skills (reaction times) etc. Plus whats your car running on revo stage 1?

    Anyway here some figures...

    Gti Mk 5
    Torque 280 Nm - 207 lb-ft
    Power output 200bhp
    DSG 0-60 mph 6.7 s
    Gears 0-60 mph 7.0 s

    Here some figures from tunners
    AMD quote gains of 45-55bhp and 60-80lbs/ft
    Revo quote gains of 55bhp 50ft/lb
    Now thats a lot of gain's from just a remap and its gonna be quite quick!!!

    8L S3 facelift
    Power Output 225 bhp
    Torque 280 Nm
    60 mph 6.4 s
    I may be wrong but some one please correct me if i am

    So as you can see if it just has a remap the car gonna have a lot of power! And means business! So as already said mate there no reason for you to be disapointed or ashamed in the way your S3 performed mate! Did quite well and better than most car's on the road would do!

    I'm now going to go hang my head in shame for all audi s3 drivers.......I'm sorry
    No need to do that mate. Keep your head high and there may be another day when you have a running with a GTI and your face is like
    And his face So no need to say sorry.
    Thanks

    Ashley
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  29. #28
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    German cars are getting like jap cars theses days. Most people have done some sort of tuning to their cars but visually remain standard or maybe different wheels. You never know if your having a play with a standard or tuned car.
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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    German cars are getting like jap cars theses days. Most people have done some sort of tuning to their cars but visually remain standard or maybe different wheels. You never know if your having a play with a standard or tuned car.

    If you ask me Nath thats the best way keeping it looking oem/standard as no one will know what work you done to the engine bay! And they will be in for quite a shock!
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    Ye agree with you ash, but my point is that say you see a evo / STI or skyline behind you or at a set of lights 8 / 10 that car won't be standard even though it looks it. GTI's, Seat, Audi's, Skoda's are the same theses days, you never know if it standard or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    Ye agree with you ash, but my point is that say you see a evo / STI or skyline behind you or at a set of lights 8 / 10 that car won't be standard even though it looks it. GTI's, Seat, Audi's, Skoda's are the same theses days, you never know if it standard or not.

    Yeah i know what your saying there. Dont think you will ever see a standard EVO/STI or Skyline thats for sure! And VW, Audi, Seat And Skoda seem to be the same these days!
    Last edited by Ash B; 5th July 2009 at 18:32.
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    All my friends minus you ash who have German cars they are all remapped and some are diesel with a lot of torque. None are as quick as my standard S3 but they all will shock anyone who think they will leave (this standard looking car) easily.
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    Ya know the thing that really gets me...... not only it was just as quick... i bet he's getting 30 to the gallon as well!!!!!

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    Theres a 05 plate Golf GTi V in my area driven by a tw*t but ive beaten him coming onto/up the upton bypass no proplem....

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    Hmmmmmm......I hope non of this 'racing' is taking place on the queens highway
    2000 Audi A3 1.8T Sport - Custom Code Phase 1 remap / Custom Stainless Catback Exhuast / MKII 18" RS4 Reps / Wietec Ultra GT40mm / KW ARB's / Forge TIP / Forge 007 / Green Panel Filter / EBC Greenstuff pads / 312mm S3 front brake upgrade / Aero Wipers / LED Interior Lights / LED Side Repeaters / Face Lift Rear Lights and covered in Dodo Juice

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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tom View Post
    Hmmmmmm......I hope non of this 'racing' is taking place on the queens highway
    haha as soon as I saw your name on the thread I knew that would be your comment! hey I was a good boy and backed off!!

  38. #37
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    I'd have thought a Mk5 Golf would have been a lot quicker than a standard 8L S3.

    Be interested to see a stock MK5 run the strip and then see what sort of numbers it runs with a remap.
    2000 Audi A3 1.8T Sport - Custom Code Phase 1 remap / Custom Stainless Catback Exhuast / MKII 18" RS4 Reps / Wietec Ultra GT40mm / KW ARB's / Forge TIP / Forge 007 / Green Panel Filter / EBC Greenstuff pads / 312mm S3 front brake upgrade / Aero Wipers / LED Interior Lights / LED Side Repeaters / Face Lift Rear Lights and covered in Dodo Juice

  39. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Nattie View Post
    So what you done to your MK3 GTI in order for it to out brake, out accelerate and out handle an standard S3. Standard MK3 GTI aint nothing special IMO.
    ...and a standard S3 is?

    Basically nothing is standard.
    16v with Cams, head, lightweight lifters / titanium retainers, big TB, re-map to give 190+ BHP, lower FD, C/R gearbox, Quaife diff, Koni coilovers, Eibach ARBs, poly bushes, aggressive alignment, S3 front brakes, braided hoses and track pads.

    Lighter weight + better handling + stronger brakes + lower gearing + less understeer/more front end grip = quicker. Simple.

    ...and the Mk5 GTI has a far better chassis, with more power and torque.


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  40. #39
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    The other misconception here which keeps cropping up time and time again is that all drivers are equal.

    Sabine Schmidt almost matched Jezza time in a diesel Jag round the ring in a Transit van.

    We all think we are driving gods (in our heads), but if you put me in my modified S3 against Sabine in a standard Mk1 GTi she would still beat me round the ring.

    I only realised how average a driver I was once I went for some tuition. Yes I can plant my foot on an accelerator with the best of you, but that is not the whole story of outright speed.

    Quick gear changes, logarithmic application of the accelerator (as opposed to stamp on the gas), maintaining revs but changing ahead of the redline , and smooth style all contribute to a fast driving style. We are assuming on this thread that everyone drives the same and it's the cars that are wildly different. Trust me, it's so NOT true, but it's hard to appreciate until you do track time.

    Every week I must post somewhere about driver training being the best mod you can buy, and it inevitable gets ignored or lambasted by people with ego's the size of small tax havens who believe that as they have driven a road car for 10 years+ they know it all!
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  41. #40
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    Well said Warren.

    You go and watch Clunman racing...or watch cars lapping on Trackdays or at the 'ring.

    There are always the pretty little rich boys in the 'best' car with all the 'best' bits on it, paid for by Daddy...or some rich Businessman type in the fastest Supercar...and then there is the talented driver in a Mk1 Golf running rings round them, lap time wise.

    All the gear, and no idea.
    So true...

    Same on the road.


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