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  1. #1
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    S3 210/225, do they really remap to the same power?

    Only reason I ask is after trawling through the search option and the many posts it comes up with I'm not really any nearer to knowing. Most seem to suggest they do yet most quoted figures by the usual remapping suspects are different for each car.

    I've put a deposit down on a 210 car but if it's not going to make as much power when I remap it as a 225 would, I may reconsider.

    Thanks for your help.

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  3. #2
    DJ-S3's Avatar
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    Hey, as far as i know it does. im no expert i may add. ive got a 210version thats been remapped and iv neva been left standing with my friend who's got a remapped 225version. iv got a print out that states my bhp is at 270bhp but i do have a stainless steel exhaust on if that makes any difference.
    you'll have to wait for a reply for the expert to know if its true tho.

  4. #3
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    Ah, that's interesting then. Does the exhaust on yours include a replacement downpipe and 'sports' cat or is it just a 'cat-back' system.

    Reason I ask is the car I've put a deposit on actually has a replacement stainless exhaust but I didn't work out if it had the downpipe done as well. Remapping companies I've spoke to so far said this causes restrictions in any power gains.

    Thanks for your help.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Painey View Post
    Ah, that's interesting then. Does the exhaust on yours include a replacement downpipe and 'sports' cat or is it just a 'cat-back' system.

    Reason I ask is the car I've put a deposit on actually has a replacement stainless exhaust but I didn't work out if it had the downpipe done as well. Remapping companies I've spoke to so far said this causes restrictions in any power gains.

    Thanks for your help.
    I have never seen evidence of the downpiped causing a restriction on an S3.

    I fitted 100 cell cats and a full cat-back system and got no gains - so the standard stuff isn't restrictive.

    I've seen a fancy turbo back system fitted to an S3 that was assured to make 28BHP as it got rid of the 'restrictive' downpipes...and it actually lost power.

    If you've ever seen the exhaust/turbo manifold on a AMK/BAM it should be fairly obvious where the restriction is...and it doesn't appear to be the downpipes!

    In my view, the whole 'need a free flow exhaust + cats and to some degree the downpipes' is utter marketing hype...I have never seen concrete proof that any of that lot gives any gains, despite many companies claiming it does.

    Lets be honest...
    You get charged for a re-map...
    You then fit an exhaust as the 'tuner' says it's holding you back, and you get charged again for an upgraded map. Good business sense? I'd say so...


    As far as I'm concerned...they both (AMK and BAM) map up to the same.
    You won't get any more than about 275-280 BHP genuine with everything else sorted too...and you are unlikely to get a reliable 270 BHP from a simple re-map either...
    So consider 210/225s the same blank canvas.
    But don't go chasing daft figures...you may well get a sheet of paper showing the figures you want, but the engine sure as hell won't be making it in reality.

    Unless anyong has concrete proof of anything different?


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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    I have never seen evidence of the downpiped causing a restriction on an S3.

    I fitted 100 cell cats and a full cat-back system and got no gains - so the standard stuff isn't restrictive.

    I've seen a fancy turbo back system fitted to an S3 that was assured to make 28BHP as it got rid of the 'restrictive' downpipes...and it actually lost power.

    If you've ever seen the exhaust/turbo manifold on a AMK/BAM it should be fairly obvious where the restriction is...and it doesn't appear to be the downpipes!

    In my view, the whole 'need a free flow exhaust + cats and to some degree the downpipes' is utter marketing hype...I have never seen concrete proof that any of that lot gives any gains, despite many companies claiming it does.

    Lets be honest...
    You get charged for a re-map...
    You then fit an exhaust as the 'tuner' says it's holding you back, and you get charged again for an upgraded map. Good business sense? I'd say so...


    As far as I'm concerned...they both (AMK and BAM) map up to the same.
    You won't get any more than about 275-280 BHP genuine with everything else sorted too...and you are unlikely to get a reliable 270 BHP from a simple re-map either...
    So consider 210/225s the same blank canvas.
    But don't go chasing daft figures...you may well get a sheet of paper showing the figures you want, but the engine sure as hell won't be making it in reality.

    Unless anyong has concrete proof of anything different?
    I second that Ess_Three, i think that its all sales talk but i bought my exhaust for the better tone/look (Miltek Catback).
    I was wondering if there's differance in the remap's from the differant company's? For example could the Revo map be more or less power then a Jabba or CC?

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  7. #6
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    From all the reading I did, the AMK and the BAM engine were identical except for the factory map. Leshkin posted a thread about this 8 or 9 months ago, and in there I posted the link with the engine part numbers for both BAM and AMK engines, they were the same.

    There were a couple of theories around about how the AMK engine was mapped to be lower than the TT, but I am not sure on that, as let’s face it, everyone has an opinion [go democracy!!!!!]

    I would say get the AMK, it is slightly cheaper tax [maybe another reason it was mapped like this?]


    Besides, Ess_Three said so, what more do you need

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildBruce View Post

    Besides, Ess_Three said so, what more do you need
    Mine was an AMK...and all I can comment on is what I've seen through tuning my car, spending too much time at Star Performance and attending many different Dyno Days.
    It's certainly not gospel...but it's not heresay either...I have the 30-40 dyno plots to show how mine came along over the years I had it.


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  9. #8
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    I beleive the 225 model had Variable Valve Timing too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S3...C_1999-2003.29
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  10. #9
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    Mate, I think a lot of people on here take your word as close to Gospel as you possibly could.
    Don't know anything about Caster adjustment do you, I posted something about that and was hoping you may have some suggestions? [sneaking off topic]

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    I beleive the 225 model had Variable Valve Timing too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S3...C_1999-2003.29
    They do...but I'm under the impression it's only at idle as the 1.8Ts are filthy beasts.


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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildBruce View Post
    Mate, I think a lot of people on here take your word as close to Gospel as you possibly could.
    Well, that's up to them...I only know what I found/have seen.
    Not gospel...but proof to me until proven otherwise.


    Don't know anything about Caster adjustment do you, I posted something about that and was hoping you may have some suggestions? [sneaking off topic]
    What do you want to know?
    What are you trying to achieve?
    Go to PM if you prefer...(which reminds me, someone did PM me...I must reply to them too)


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  13. #12
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    Guys thanks very much for your help. Pretty much what I thought and good to hear. Won't be picking the S3 up until after the weekend now which is a pain but can't wait to get it, have it remapped and enjoy driving it.

    I am still thinking about what I could do to it to get above say 260-270bhp. I'm guessing replacing the turbo, adding an intercooler etc is the only route for that?

    Thanks once again - Chris

  14. #13
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    225's are supposed to have some suspension tweaks aswell aren't they? According to Evo anyway!
    If you've got a deposit on a decent 210 model then no need to change your mind. I wanted a 225 and thought i was getting one (advertised as one) until i got it home and found it was a 210. Not too concerned though as a remap, allignment and new Pilot Sport tyres were added two weeks later and i'm happy now!
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  15. #14
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    Do the AMK engines not have VVT? Man I cant wait to tell Leshkin

  16. #15
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    AMK and BAM engines are mentioned above, what about the APY then? Is that significantly different to the later engines (and I dont mean gudgeon pins)?!
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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    They do...but I'm under the impression it's only at idle as the 1.8Ts are filthy beasts.
    I had a 1.8 VVC MGF LOL! And I must say it was a lot better then my friends standard 1.8 MGF power wise, 0 - 60, 80 - 100 etc not that it's a great comparison but still. Interesting.

  18. #17
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    Interesting, the Haldex unit that I assumed was used in the S3 was only made in 2002, so I wonder if all S3's have the first generation of Haldex controller?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldex_Traction

    I have read about some people getting the upgraded Haldex unit, so i winder if that is just the second generation unit? Or did all 2002 and 2003 models get a different unit?

  19. #18
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    Westle, the WIKI you sent says that form 2001 onwards the VVT was used, so this would cover the AMK engine, as it was used in 2001 form what I have read.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianysm View Post
    225's are supposed to have some suspension tweaks aswell aren't they? According to Evo anyway!
    Only if they have the GmbH suspension option of lowered suspension....as available on the last of the 8Ls.


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