ET + spacer question

Robert dB

Robert dB

Registered User
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Netherlands
No not a question about Extra-Terrestrials :)

ET
I'm looking at fitting ET38 7,5J rims with 225/40R18 tyres on a S3 8L. Could I exprect any problems?
May sound as an nub-question, but better to be sure then sorry. A search on the forum didn't satisfy me.

Spacer
The supplier of the new rims added some 5 mm spacers but sad enough these don't fit. The rims have the same 57,1mm center alignment as the wheel and therefor one and the other don't fit together.
Further explainment by some pictures since my English is a bit too poor to point out the situation :s Bear with me.

spacer.JPG


spacer2.jpg


As you can see the spacer doesn't fit the rim but does cover the wheel hub correctly.

Any help point out which specer to look for will be great help. Thanks in advance.

Robert
 
not sure on the bore diameter of spacers but you will need bigger spacers than 5mm anyway, id expect you to need more like 10-15mm front and 20-25 possibly 30 even on the back depends how you want the wheels to sit in the arch. id recomend fitting the wheels then measure the distance from the rim to the edge of the arch to gauge the size spacers you want then ring a local wheel spacer supplier and see if they can do the widths you require with the correct hub centers
 
How do you mean the spacers don't fit? They look like hub centric Eibach spacers to me, which if IIRC cover both 5 x 100 and 5 x 112 Audi PCD's

Is it that the centre hub part does not fit inside the wheel or the holes don't line up?

Not all the holes have to line up only the right PCD for your car which is 5 x 100

<tuffty/>
 
@S3_kev
I might go for wider spacers to get the spot on alignment with the arches, but for starters I'll be looking at a desent hub fit.

@Tuffybloke
It's the centre hub part which doesn't fit in the wheel.
The outer mesurement is 70mm while the centre of the wheel is 57.1mm

velg.jpg


Holes line up perfectly, being 5x100.

The spacers are H&R 10255571-701, which are listed as S3 8L spacers published on www.h-r.com
 
Guys, would it be oke to use a 5mm spacer without a centre alignment hub? Or do you 'need' the whole 10mm hub that sits on your car?
 
Hi I'm new to all this but have bought myself an audi s3 2001 and its come with 20mm spacers and 18inch audi rims which set the car off a treat but I'm getting abnormal tyre wear on the rear and some really nasty noise coming from the rear sound like a wheel bearing but fades after about 50mph, the camber seem out on the back but cant get it set up right as its got these spacers on and I'm also not sure if the back end is adjustable?? I'm thinking of getting the standard rims for it and taking the spacers off as the ride is really not nice!! Has anyone had this problem before??
 
RichNieman said:
Hi I'm new to all this but have bought myself an audi s3 2001 and its come with 20mm spacers and 18inch audi rims which set the car off a treat but I'm getting abnormal tyre wear on the rear and some really nasty noise coming from the rear sound like a wheel bearing but fades after about 50mph, the camber seem out on the back but cant get it set up right as its got these spacers on and I'm also not sure if the back end is adjustable?? I'm thinking of getting the standard rims for it and taking the spacers off as the ride is really not nice!! Has anyone had this problem before??
Click to expand...

It sounds like your car is lowered but doesn't have adjustable tie bars fitted.

With no adjustable tie bars fitted after lowering you will get around -3 to -4 degrees negative camber at the rear, which makes the rear skittish and kills the inner edges of the tyres.
Sound familiar?

To save your tyres AND get an improvement you really need to fit a pair of adjustable tie bars - one to each side.

As for adjustable...as standard rear toe is, but rear camber is not.
Lowering throws both out...so you need to fit the adjustable rear bars, sort the camber out, then sort the toe out using the standard adjustment where the rear trailing arms mount to the bodyshell.

With regard to the ride...
Has it been lowered?
If it has, and it's still on standard dampers it will be awful as the standard dampers were woeful when new and having to deal with standard springs...with lowered springs and a few 1000s of miles on them, the ride will have suffered.

Sadly, if that's tha case, you are going to need to fit some decent dampers to solve the problem.
An S3 on 18" wheels, with lowered springs and uprated dampers can ride better than standard - mine did.
 
Robert dB said:
spacer2.jpg
Click to expand...

Hmm..
Something odd here.
As far as I'm aware, it's just not possible to get a 5mm hubcentric spacer to work with standard wheels...the lip on the hub is nearly 10mm...so you just can't do it.

Even at 10mm, you break the hubcentric part off easily as the metal left is under 1mm.

Those are not the correct spacers.

You can run 5mm non-hubcentric spacers with no problems as there is enough of the hub sticking through to positively locate the wheel...
By 8mm, you are struggling...
And 10mm is the smallest you can go, hubcentric, as far as I know.

Anyone know different?
 
Ess_Three said:
It sounds like your car is lowered but doesn't have adjustable tie bars fitted.

With no adjustable tie bars fitted after lowering you will get around -3 to -4 degrees negative camber at the rear, which makes the rear skittish and kills the inner edges of the tyres.
Sound familiar?

To save your tyres AND get an improvement you really need to fit a pair of adjustable tie bars - one to each side.

As for adjustable...as standard rear toe is, but rear camber is not.
Lowering throws both out...so you need to fit the adjustable rear bars, sort the camber out, then sort the toe out using the standard adjustment where the rear trailing arms mount to the bodyshell.

With regard to the ride...
Has it been lowered?
If it has, and it's still on standard dampers it will be awful as the standard dampers were woeful when new and having to deal with standard springs...with lowered springs and a few 1000s of miles on them, the ride will have suffered.

Sadly, if that's tha case, you are going to need to fit some decent dampers to solve the problem.
An S3 on 18" wheels, with lowered springs and uprated dampers can ride better than standard - mine did.
Click to expand...




Thanks for the advice, do you know where I could get the adjustable tie bars?? Its scrubbing the inner edges out bit time!!

May just et standard springs put back on or thou they dont look any different to oe parts??
 
Cant help with the question but one of my own has sprung to mind after reading this. What ET do the wheels have to be to not require the use of spacers?
 
RichNieman said:
Thanks for the advice, do you know where I could get the adjustable tie bars?? Its scrubbing the inner edges out bit time!!
Click to expand...

Forge Motorsport do some.
I think KW do too.
Milltek also?


May just et standard springs put back on or thou they dont look any different to oe parts??
Click to expand...

You could...but it'll cost you the cost of the alignment even if you do that.

Tie bars aren't cheap mind!
 
hutchybee said:
Cant help with the question but one of my own has sprung to mind after reading this. What ET do the wheels have to be to not require the use of spacers?
Click to expand...

You can fit 16mm spacers to 8" x 18" ET33 wheels and not have the silly stretched out past the arches look...so you are probably looking around ET15 to ET20s to get them close to flush, on 225 wide tyres and not have any scrubbing (camber also comes into play here).
 
Ess_Three said:
Hmm..
Something odd here.
As far as I'm aware, it's just not possible to get a 5mm hubcentric spacer to work with standard wheels...the lip on the hub is nearly 10mm...so you just can't do it.

Even at 10mm, you break the hubcentric part off easily as the metal left is under 1mm.

Those are not the correct spacers.

You can run 5mm non-hubcentric spacers with no problems as there is enough of the hub sticking through to positively locate the wheel...
By 8mm, you are struggling...
And 10mm is the smallest you can go, hubcentric, as far as I know.

Anyone know different?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply Ess_three.
I'll try and see it 5mm non-hubcentric spacers work with the knowledge the leftover 5mm from the hub will do the job.
Btw, are any forces from the wheels transfered through the hub centre to the vihecle? Or just there to positively locate the wheel?

Cheers again for the help, much appreciated!
 
The hub just locates the wheel...the bolts hold it on.

The taper on the hub/wheel just make sure it's centred up correctly...and you will loose this function when you fit 5mm spacers, so you need to take care to get the wheel on centrally, and make sure you nip the wheel bolts up evenly to ensure it stays central.

If I recall correctly, you can get away with standard wheel bolts on 5mm spacers....but by 8s you need longer bolts.
 
Thanks for the explanation, learing more each day here, thumbs up.
I'll take good care fitting the wheels centrally, screwing on bolts bit by bit. I've got slightly longer bolts to ensure the load-bearing thread gets at least 7-8 rotations.
Btw would you know the correct tighting torque for aluminium wheels? The german manual that came with the new rims advice 120Nm, does that sound about correct?
 
audi upgrades
Yup, 120Nm is correct.

How much longer are your bolts?
Just make sure they aren't too much longer or you run the risk of screwing them so far in at the front that you hit the ABS sensor ring, and can bend it.

You should be OK at +10mm is using 5mm spacers.


If you get wheel wobble, you may be better binning the 5mm spacers and fitting a set of proper hubcentric 10mm spacers...as they have the centring angle machined in.
 
Bolts are about 5mm longer then the standard so that should be ok.

Just out of curiosity; how will 10 (or more) mm spacers fit over the wheel centre hub and have a centre alignment hub of 57.1mm? (instead of the 70mm like shown in the picture in post #4)
Imo the grease cap will bump into the spacer...? Incase my point isn't clear I'll make a little drawing tomorrow.
 
With a 10mm spacer, there is enough metal to have a 57.1mm 'hole' that fite over the hub raised lip, since that it around 9mm high...then the spacer has a machined lip in it to replicate the hub lip - also of 57.1mm.

There is *just* enough metal to machine it...it gets easier with thicker spacers, but 10mm is the smallest you can do it with as far as I know.

With the 10mm spacer on the hub, you have pretty much the same height of raised centre locating lip as the standard hub.

Does this make sense?

See here:
DSC01599.jpg


The diameter of the raised section is 57.1, exactly the same as the standard hub underneath...so the wheel centres correctly on it, and it centres correctly on the hub.
 
Aha, that's the answer! I couldn't imagine there would be enough contact to make it a solid construction, but you've proven me wrong.

Got a product # on those spacers, or is the picture an copy/paste one off the net?
I'll dig myself into the H&R site to see if I can find a set of 10mm with centre hub. Seems to be the best option (looks -filled arches- and practicality when fitting wheels).
 
I just found it on the 'net.

10mm/10mm looks good on an S3, certainly with ET32/33 8" wide wheels.
16mm/16mm will go too...but the fronts look a bit far out in my view...and that's what my S3 had.
The best for looks, in my view, are 10mm fronts, 16mm rears.

I had Forge Motorsport 16mm spacers...I think they do 10mm too.
I have 10mm F&R on my Golf and they are just fine...(Eibach and H&R).
 
I've come up with this setup, as shown in the picture below.

I'm aware it only slightly wider then standard but I'm a bit afraid going to wide. Opinions are that a much wider track then stardard will cause damage to wheel bearings overtime. Perhaps you guys disagree?

Who knows how deep the standard bolt fit in the wheel hub? See the questionmark in the drawing. Incase nobody knows I'll have to take off a wheel and mesure it myself, just asking to save myself the trouble.

wheel.jpg
 
Emotion Strada 18" 7.5J, Gunmetal. The rims I've drawn above are just 'fantasy rims' not the actual Strada's :)
strada.jpg
 
the question mark measurement look to be over half of the 32mm above so id say it was at least 16mm. if the drawings to scale

Robert dB said:
I've come up with this setup, as shown in the picture below.

I'm aware it only slightly wider then standard but I'm a bit afraid going to wide. Opinions are that a much wider track then stardard will cause damage to wheel bearings overtime. Perhaps you guys disagree?

Who knows how deep the standard bolt fit in the wheel hub? See the questionmark in the drawing. Incase nobody knows I'll have to take off a wheel and mesure it myself, just asking to save myself the trouble.

wheel.jpg
Click to expand...
 
s3ollie said:
the question mark measurement look to be over half of the 32mm above so id say it was at least 16mm. if the drawings to scale
Click to expand...

The drawing is 'home-made' by me...and I was just guessing :) So the scale doesn't count.
Perhaps I'll take the effort to pull a wheel off and get all the needed mesurements to be able to order bolts with the correct length.
 
Robert dB said:
I've come up with this setup, as shown in the picture below.

I'm aware it only slightly wider then standard but I'm a bit afraid going to wide. Opinions are that a much wider track then stardard will cause damage to wheel bearings overtime. Perhaps you guys disagree?

Who knows how deep the standard bolt fit in the wheel hub? See the questionmark in the drawing. Incase nobody knows I'll have to take off a wheel and mesure it myself, just asking to save myself the trouble.

wheel.jpg
Click to expand...

your top picture where you have measured the after spacer et is incorrect if you have a 12mm spacer it would make your offset et26 unless you meant 12mm total track in which you have put in a 12mm spacer which would have only been 6mm
 
s3_kev said:
your top picture where you have measured the after spacer et is incorrect if you have a 12mm spacer it would make your offset et26 unless you meant 12mm total track in which you have put in a 12mm spacer which would have only been 6mm
Click to expand...

Correct, thanks for pointing out.

I've come to this set-up:

wiel.jpg


Slightly wider track then standard, esp. since I'll be running OE ARB's and Bilstein B6 with -25mm springs...therefor don't want to lower the ET under 24.

You reckon this would be a good set-up for a smooth, non-aggresive drive?
 
Westle said:
HAs anyone got spacers on with standard 17" avus and standard suspension? Just wondered if it looks weird or not?
Click to expand...

I have 15mm spacers on the rear and 10mm up front and it looks great :thumbsup: Looking at standard cars now I realise that I couldn't go back to having the wheels lost inside the arches!

Do it, such a simple mod but makes a big difference!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A3_Turbo
Spacer Question
Replies
16
Views
1K
danny_s3
D
T
Spacer Question
Replies
14
Views
1K
aidank1981
aidank1981
R
Wheel spacer question
Replies
9
Views
1K
Rich-xstS3
R
Bridger
FK Spacer question....
Replies
1
Views
915
dickys3
D
R
Boring Wheel spacer question
Replies
3
Views
736
RS_BUBBA
R
Top
Back