EM TuningBadger5
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Olly P's Avatar
    My other cars a mk2 Golf GTi

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    686

    Hybrid or Big Turbo?

    Right, a friend of mine is after some more HP from his 2002 Audi S3!

    He's on a fairly tight budget and is after a reliable 300-350 bhp set up. He only really uses his car on the roads, no track days etc.

    These kits both look good, just wondering if anyone had any experience or opinions of them.

    JBS do a k05 hybrid turbo which looks good, not too laggy. This should cost about 3,700 fitted, including a forge intercooler. This might be less if they take his turbo as part exchange. Do you think the intercooler is necessary? This should see up to 330 bhp:
    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147711

    The other option is to go for a backdraft kit. That uses a big turbo, GT2860RS, and will see up to 350 bhp, but is more expensive at 4,000 fitted:
    http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/p...n-cupra-r.html

    I know threes quite a few threads on both of these, just wondering what would best suite my friends set up.

    Any opinions etc welcome

  2. # ADS
    ADS
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Global
    Posts
    Many
     
  3. #2
    Gareth_RS3's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    117
    Another option is backdrafts hybrid, which works out a lot cheaper than both, my car is there at the moment and it should see around 300 bhp hopefully a little bit more, tell him to speak to mark there, hes always ready to answer any questions i have had, and seems like a nice bloke, im looking forward to seeing the results thats for sure and ill keep you posted...

  4. #3
    JBS Sales's Avatar
    2nd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, Derbyshire
    Posts
    396
    With the JBS05 turbo upgrade the intercooler is not overly needed for stage 1 - it is recommend for Stage 2 as well as our hi-flow manifold which is still in production at the moment.

    He can opt for the basic Stage 1 kit which will cost approx 2,167.75inc VAT all in fitted and mapped as a new unit or 1,697.75 if we can re-use his old unit.

    The option above will offer up to 300bhp with potential to further on to Stage 2 for 330bhp!

    Tell him he is always more than welcome to give us a quick call on 01246 455005

    Mike


    Tel/Fax 01246 455 005

  5. #4
    Olly P's Avatar
    My other cars a mk2 Golf GTi

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    686
    Cheers for the advice! Have you got your car back from backdraft yet? If so, how is it!

  6. #5
    Gareth_RS3's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    117
    No probs, nope im getting it back tomorrow if all goes according to plan i'll let you know it goes

  7. #6
    Leon's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    147
    I have been looking into this as well Olly. I budgeted 2k to upgrade the power on mine to around 300bhp but JBS came back with a Stage 1 upgrade at nearly 2700 which is more than they quoted above (did include new DV and TIP to be fair but you'd want them anyway). From what I read there isn't that many folk who have gone hybrid, possibly because the power hungry freaks go BT instead. IMO to spend nearly 3K for an extra 30bhp isn't good value, especially as the con-rods could go pop with all that extra torque. Going BT can cost 6K all in safely, and then your looking at new clutches, big brakes and the rest. At that price its best just buying a new car with it all done.
    AMK Goodwood Green S3 - AMD 265BHP remap - Chrome Mirrors - Sunroof - Bose Symphony - DICE IPOD Kit - 18" DOTZ Mugello's - And a Yamaha R6 for when it doesn't rain!

  8. #7
    jojo's Avatar
    S3 Drift King!

    Status
    Online
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Solihull, Midlands
    Posts
    25,424
    For me personally, I think 300BHP is going to be a quick and driveable S3, I would consider the JBS05 conversion if my turbo was to go 'pop' - touchwood. The price jump to go beyond a Hybrid turbo for BT power is too much in my opinion, especially since the S3's chassis is a bit lacking out the box, so you need to spend money in different areas to make use of the power! If I really wanted over 300bhp, then I think a better/safer/more fun investment would be a different car like an Evo 6-9, or even a Scooby doo STI of some sort. No doubt a BT S3 is still pretty unique and rare, and you still get a comfortable car with your 330+horses, but the 5k+ bill doesn't seem value for me..........

    Just my opinion of course.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh!



  9. #8
    S3 Paul's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,764
    I went for the JBS hybrid conversion.
    Its a good set up and stil returns good mpg.
    If i didnt use the car soo much i might have gone big turbo ( still might) but the claimed 260/270 bhp from simply mapping feels a dam sight less than 30 bhp down on the JBS 05 set up.!
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

  10. #9
    FazS3's Avatar
    4th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    857
    In ma opinion once you start uprating power, you will eventually have to upgrade other components brakes suspension etc.

    Just depends what your willing to spend on the car, personally I would buy a BT S3 rather then spend money doing one up myself, to get the car perfect you need to look at every component cos as Jojo Mojo said you need to make sure it can handle the power!

    I personally think BT S3 is really a lethal weapon and has the ability to surprise many cars on the road, once suspension and brakes sorted you have a really fast road car which can lay the power, i dont know why people have fwd turbo cars pushing more then 250bhp really.

    The only problem being is the BT S3 is rare and even the odd ones that come up they will not always be maintained. I searched and waited 8 months for mine, but definitely worth it.

    I dont have any experience on the hybrid so dont have an opinion on it!
    MTM THE ULTIMATE STAGE!

  11. #10
    voorhees's Avatar
    Moderator

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Leafy Warwickshire
    Posts
    14,851

    Thumbs up

    an engine conversion is the road I would go down but thats only my tuppence worth

  12. #11
    jim s3's Avatar
    2nd Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    longbridge, birmingham
    Posts
    313
    i only did mine because my cam belt broke and i was rebuilding my engine and found that my turbo and manifold were cracked plus i always wanted to rebuild a engine lol

  13. #12
    Jacko4130's Avatar
    Goodie Gum Drops

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    mansfield
    Posts
    839
    Quote Originally Posted by JBS Sales View Post
    With the JBS05 turbo upgrade the intercooler is not overly needed for stage 1 - it is recommend for Stage 2 as well as our hi-flow manifold which is still in production at the moment.

    He can opt for the basic Stage 1 kit which will cost approx 2,167.75inc VAT all in fitted and mapped as a new unit or 1,697.75 if we can re-use his old unit.

    The option above will offer up to 300bhp with potential to further on to Stage 2 for 330bhp!

    Tell him he is always more than welcome to give us a quick call on 01246 455005

    Mike
    What price we talking for the basic kit if i was to fit myself and bring back for mapping? If my unit was re-useable?
    Black S3

  14. #13
    Gareth_RS3's Avatar
    1st Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    117
    I finally got my car back yesterday, after a few little probs. At the moment the car should be running about 300bhp and 330 lb/ft torque.
    It still needs running in for a little while so cant give a full report yet but the early signs are very promising, it feels miles better already, obvously i havent been anywhere near the redline yet but the difference in torque is great the throttle responce is much better too, it just feels a lot more eager. TBH a hybrid is a very good option in my opinion, my hand was forced somewhat by the fact i needed a new turbo so i thought it would be the right time to do the work and needless to say i cant wait to see what its like at full power but i dont think i'll be dissappointed.

    Oh and id just like to say i would reccommend anyone who is considering going hybrid or big turbo to give mark @ backdraft a call, he has been very helpfull in everyway and customer service wa great he seems to know his stuff too

    cheers Gareth

  15. #14
    Keefo's Avatar
    Neutral

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    46
    Just a quick question as im new to turbo'd cars!

    Whats the differance between a normal turbo and a Hybrid turbo??

  16. #15
    Olly P's Avatar
    My other cars a mk2 Golf GTi

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    686
    About 1,000 lol! They just re engineer the turbo i think

    Heres a brief explanation of what backdraft do to there hybrid k04's

    http://www.backdraftmotorsport.com/p...ade-turbo.html

    Be interested to see how Backdraft's hybrid compared to JBS's one. JBS can apparently offer BT kind of power with their hybrid turbo plus manafold, down pipe and fmic?!

    http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147711

    Hum, sounds good?!

  17. #16
    S3 Paul's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,764
    The test car was mine !
    lol
    I wouldnt say big turbo power but a hell of a good compromise.
    if i go big turbo im goin to want 400+ which a hybrid just can not make.
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

  18. #17
    s3_kev's Avatar
    Stage2'd!!!!!!

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,984
    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    The test car was mine !
    lol
    I wouldnt say big turbo power but a hell of a good compromise.
    if i go big turbo im goin to want 400+ which a hybrid just can not make.
    i really think you should go big turbo so you can sell me your hybrid

  19. #18
    S3 Paul's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,764
    LOL
    and my down pipe?
    I might even sell the whole car yet !
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

  20. #19
    s3_kev's Avatar
    Stage2'd!!!!!!

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,984
    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    LOL
    and my down pipe?
    I might even sell the whole car yet !
    yeah go on then ill have the downpipe too lol,

  21. #20
    1animal1's Avatar
    The Clar!! it mouves!!!

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    9,990
    and ill have the brakes!!!
    Xbox 360 gamer ID : Timffy

    Grey Triumph Sprint 1050 ST
    Silver BMW 535D Tourer - Fully loaded 340BHP 700NM torque
    2009 8P3 S3 Brilliant Red - Sold
    2001 F/L S3 Dolphin Grey - Sold
    1999 Pre F/L Silver A3 1.8T - Sold

  22. #21
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Berkshire
    Posts
    1,951
    Lets take your standard Hybrid at 2000.

    I 100% guarantee your car will be faster if you spend that a couple days driver training instead of making the current engine have more power.

    Then you can spend the remaining 1500 on decent suspension.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  23. #22
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Berkshire
    Posts
    1,951
    And in reference to the original thread.

    3700 on a big tubo kit?

    He could buy a better all round car than the S3 for 3700.

    He could have his S3 for commuting and 3700 worth of additional car for hooliganism.

    I spent over 7000 on my last Audi once every single bill was added up.

    Then I bought a 5K different car and it blew the audi away in every respect.

    Now we have a global recession that difference can be equated to his situation easily.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  24. #23
    S3 Paul's Avatar
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,764
    I do strongly beleave that driver training would greatly help me enjoy the car on track ( i would never drive balls out on a public road anymore ). I fitted fully adjustable coilovers and uprated the brakes too, But i just dont have the confidence to throw it about.
    A cheaper car thats more "fun" yes i know this for a fact as ive driven 3k cars that are a hoot and could leave me on a track BUT i bought an S3 for the full deal. everything about it was what i was looking for at the time... its was just that over time i wanted more power. So set about sorting what i felt was the cars weak points. Now its just the driver !
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

  25. #24
    jcb
    6th Gear

    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    4,077
    big turbo conversion for 4000? you must be mad. Is this on an otherwise stock car?
    neither of those kits includes rods and at the estimated 328 ftlbs of torque you are waaaay to close to the rod limit on the stock bottom end for my liking.
    you just need one little torque spike and you are picking your bottom end up with a shovel. OEM exhaust valves are famously pants at high revving high boost applications.

    I am building a stroked 2.0l 20v with fully built bottom end and rebuilt head with inconel valves and titanium valvetrain, coupled with a GT2871 and 630cc map.

    didn't come anywhere near 4k. sourced everything in the US,
    even allowing for engineering work and assorted bits it still leaves me with change from that figure.
    granted it is not a drive in drive out deal but then I am happier in the knowledge that I can swap the turbo for a GT30 at a later date without any changes and my engine is ultimately brand new.

 

 

LinkBacks (?)

  1. 3rd July 2012, 03:59

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO

Garage Plus, Vendor Tools vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO