Chris NottEM Tuning
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  1. #1
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    Car booked in with JKM

    Just got off the phone with JKM and the S3 is going in next Friday to have some diagnostics carried out. I have a couple of issues with the S3 which I've been trying to solve myself but failed so far, so it's time to get the professionals to take a look!

    I've had a slightly lumpy idle since buying the car. It's had a few bits replaced including a big chunk of PCV hose but that hasn't helped at all. Also in the last couple of months (think it's since cleaning the MAF) the car has been feeling underpowered. When pulling away from a junction it feels gutless..a bit like it did before the remap! I can hear the turbo spooling up at around 2k RPM but there's not as much power as there was the day the remap was carried out. There's also a hissing sound if I accellerate on the motorway which I think may be a boost leak..it certainly sounds like a leak of some kind.

    Fingers crossed JKM can work some magic and get her back to her former glory!
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

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  3. #2
    HTC
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    Let us know how you get on. I'm thinking of taking my car down there for some work.

  4. #3
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    Ditto
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    "On my second S3 and loving it. RS3 here I come!!!"

  5. #4
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    i noticed when i had my car at bentwaters, when i get to 120ish theres a loud hissing coming from the turbo area? It doesn't lack power, it spools up nice, you can hear it quite clearly but once your near the top end the hissing becomes more apparent and over powers the sound of the turbo spoolling?

  6. #5
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budgy Smuggler View Post
    i noticed when i had my car at bentwaters, when i get to 120ish theres a loud hissing coming from the turbo area? It doesn't lack power, it spools up nice, you can hear it quite clearly but once your near the top end the hissing becomes more apparent and over powers the sound of the turbo spoolling?
    I take it that's 120km/h I just had a listen to the sound on the drive home from work and it sounds like air dumping from the DV. Like you say it overpowers the sound of the turbo. I'm wondering if the green spring in my 007P is struggling to hold the 1.5bar of pressure and is letting go?

    I'll let the rest of you know how it goes as it'll be my first time using JKM. I wanted to get them to do my clutch replacement but their price wasn't he most competetive.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  7. #6
    HTC
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    I'd say that was a possibility as the green spring is rated to about 1 bar. Yellow up to 1.58 bar.

    I'm getting a whistling sound and I'm overboosting. So much easier to diagnose on a rolling road as you can get to parts whilst the engine is running.

  8. #7
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    Have just been to pick her up from JKM and to be honest I'm none the wiser, just 117 lighter

    On the idle issue, they've performed vaccuum and pressure tests and theres no leaks anywhere so can't work out what's causing it.

    On the lack of power issue it's been on the dyno and VAG-Com and they've confirmed it's lacking power but they're not sure why. He also advised it's running dangerously lean (14:1 across the rev range as opposed to the 12:1 it should be). There was a bit of oil in the pipework, but no smoke at all, and the wastgate is functioning as it should be

    He wants the car back in to inspect the turbo to see if the impellors are bent at all or if there's any play in the bearing. He suspects that if the car has been running lean for a while then the high exhaust gas temps may have killed the turbo. He said it's ok to drive as it is for now as long as I don't hammer it.

    I'm so fed up with this car right now. It's just one big bill after another and I'm struggling to keep the thing on the road. My debt just keeps adding up and I may just have to put it up for sale! This is certainly not what I expected when buying my dream car. There was the 1500 bill last month, and now a possible new turbo; Knowing my luck the gearbox will let go and take out the new clutch and flywheel next! I've always been against buying high mileage cars but I'd been convinced by people that it's not as bad as the stigma attached to it makes it seem. There is no way I'm ever going near a car with spaceship mileage again!!
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  9. #8
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    Who mapped it, as I would be taking it back and getting them to look at why it's running lean?

    And before anybody says I know its custom code, but who actually put the map on the car.
    03 Ebony black S3, Dieselgeek short shift, its started..

  10. #9
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    Leigh from the CC mobile service did the mapping. The guy at JKM did actually say that maybe the fuelling side of the map was buggered. He said that he'd check fuel pressure and it that checked out OK then I should be getting in contact with CC.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  11. #10
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    If it's running lean then that is worse than running rich and more dangerous, I think I'd get back in contact with Leigh and get him to have a look. If there is something wrong with the map then you could keep paying JKM to investigate a problem that could be fixed by a code tweak.
    03 Ebony black S3, Dieselgeek short shift, its started..

  12. #11
    Prawn's Avatar
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    interestingly, JKM also told Dave and I that our CC maps ran dangerously lean, yet James Silverstone owner of Custom Code was 100% adamant that my AFR figures sounded perfectly fine.....

    did Kieth give you your air fuel graph? mine reaches a max of 13.2:1, but is well and truly rich comming onto boost where it needs to be.

    What power figure did it make on the JKM rollers?
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

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  13. #12
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    Nah didn't get a graph unfortunately. I'll give him a shout on Monday and see if it's available. Sounds a bit worrying that JKM are saying it's lean but CC think it's ok. Sounds like I could have an interesting battle ahead!

    Apparently my car is making peak 200bhp at the moment, so not hugely underpowered. but it's the low-down power that it's lacking. He said that he's never seen an S3 make more than 240 on his rollers.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  14. #13
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanthatcan View Post
    Apparently my car is making peak 200bhp at the moment, so not hugely underpowered. but it's the low-down power that it's lacking. He said that he's never seen an S3 make more than 240 on his rollers.
    I really like the guys at JKM, but that's just not true!

    Check out this page: http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Ga...ollingroad.htm

    then go to any of the seat cupra.net days, there are remapped LCR's in there making over 240bhp.
    Admittedly, not many, but they do do it.....

    Jim told me that he had never seen a ko3S car make over 220bhp, yet mine and Daves both made 225bhp/290lbft both with fuelling issues..... peak power at 4500rpm!

    To say a mapped S3 is only running 200bhp though, is very worring indeed!

    I'd trust the guys at JKM on their knowledge though, both mine and Daves cars did turn out to have fairly serious fuelling problems. Both traced to dying fuel pumps.
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  15. #14
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    Maybe I misheard him on the 240bhp thing..there was a lot of information to take in He might have said that he doesn't usually see more than 240BHP.

    Is yours a Quattro? I seem to remember a few people on here saying that they take the fuse for the haldex system out when doing a dyno run and this has strange effects on the power readings..sound feasible or rubbbish?

    I did suggest that the fuel pump may be dodgy but he wasn't convinced. He said something about it being a very rare problem and he'd only ever replaced a couple. Bit strange if both you and Dave had to change yours!
    Last edited by themanthatcan; 4th July 2008 at 20:29.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  16. #15
    Prawn's Avatar
    My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    mines front wheel drive (handful!) and proud.

    In theory, when you unplug the haldex like they do, it runs the car entirely in FWD mode, and the only extra drag is the turning of the prop shaft along the length of the car, which doesn't equate to much at all.

    I think the fuel pump is a very rare problem on the S3, it's just that on our A3's we are running right at the very limit of the standard pumps capability, and both cars were over 140 000 miles!

    Still, 200bhp from a mapped AMK is a worry.

    Did they say what sort of boost it was running? what rough torque figures was it producing?
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  17. #16
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    I was pretty useless when it came to getting any sort of graphs or figures off the guy actually..just wanted to go home with my tail between my legs! I'd done some preliminary VAG-Com logs myself though and it was peaking at around 1.4bar at just over 3k RPM. Power below 3k RPM was pathetic:



    The figure on the Y axis is pressure in bar and needs to have 1000 taken off to allow for atmospheric pressure.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  18. #17
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, very strange!

    It's obviously a little down on requested boost, looks like it's requestiong 1.5 trailling to around 1.1 at 6k, and it's hitting 1.3 bar from 3300 right to 5000.

    for comparison my smaller ko3S was making 1.65 bar peak at 3500rpm



    dotted line here is fuelling:



    strangely, the car should peak around 6000rpm, even with the small ko3S turbo. Mine is peaking at 4500rpm.

    partly this is due to the fuel pump being on the way out, and possibly in part due to the EGT's becomming so high during the 290lbft 24psi boost spike, that the car is pulling back both timing and boost to bring EGT's down to a more sensible level....

    Either way it's bloody annoying! As I reckon the turbo could be good for a genuine 240bhp at 6000rpm.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  19. #18
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    The car is booked in again for next Monday to try and get to the bottom of this lean fuelling system. I'm hoping it proves to be something obvious like the fuel pump, filter or regulator. That could also be the cause of my lumpy idle; would be lovely to kill two birds with one stone

    Will let you know how it goes!
    Last edited by themanthatcan; 15th July 2008 at 21:45.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  20. #19
    vrbob's Avatar
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    I had loads of issues when my S3 went in for its clutch etc and it ended up costing a small fortune!! still since then its had the remap by CC and its all been good and i am still happy with the car (although i do fancy a change somewhen soon).

    When mine had a lumpy idle and was underpowered etc after the clutch was done it turned out to be a faulty throttle body yet the ecu wasn'y saying it was dodgy. If it comes to it perhaps it might be worth checking it just incase.

    Hope it all gets sorted for you soon so you get some enjoyment out of the car.
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  21. #20
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    Hey Bob good to see you again. Was just thinking the other day that I've not seen you around much recently..been busy?

    Can you believe that after all your hassle with ABTech I took mine there to get the clutch sorted and they thankfully seem to have done a good job. I can see why you had so much trouble getting your fault diagnosed though..they're really not kitted out for proper diagnostics work; no rolling road for a start. Think they're fine for getting regular stuff done, but give them a complex fault and they don't know where to start. That's why the car went to JKM for this particular problem

    Will bear the throttle body in mind thanks. It's annoying me that the ECU is giving me no error codes to work on at all. Normally the 1.8T likes to throw errors at the first sign of a problem, but not this one!
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  22. #21
    vrbob's Avatar
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    Hi Andy,

    Not been uber busy but just been browsing the site reading threads etc... I only really post if i have some input not just for the hell of it.

    Yeah i looked at ABtech n thought they looked pretty proffesional and the quote i got for my clutch eas competitive so i went with it. I still can't balme them for the issue i had i just wish they could of fixed it!!

    I got no codes form my ECU either just the warning light on the dash (which you don't have) but i had a very dodgy idle and the performance was knackered. Mine had an air leak but no-one could find it even with pressure test etc...
    Only Audi managed it after trying a throttle body off the shelf just out of interest.

    Gotta get my front suspension bushes changes soon so will be looking for somewhere to get the work done as i don't think i am up to the task myself so might try JKM.
    Audi S3 8L BAM 225 2002 - Ming Blue : Silver Heated Leather, Armrest, RNS-E - Bose, Alloy Mirrors, 18" RSTT`s, Sunroof, Cruise, AutoDim Mirror & Usual S3 Extras.
    Mods : Badger 5 Stg 2 Custom Map, FMIC, 3" DP & 200 Cell Cat, 007P, Jetex Filter & 80mm TIP & Heatshield, Complete LED Kit, Gen VW Aero Wipers, Full Powerflex Kit, R32 RARB, AP Shocks & Springs, 15mm Front & 20mm Rear Spacers, BB Uprated Actuator,
    N249 Delete & Catch Can, AP TVR 4Pot Brakes & DS2500`s, Sachs Carbon/Kevlar Clutch

  23. #22
    themanthatcan's Avatar
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    I've just got the car back from JKM and once again they're none the wiser. They have reached the point where they've exhausted all possible avenues and have directed me back to Custom Code.

    I'm waiting for Jim to email me the dyno graphs before giving CC a call and seeing what they say. I can see this is going to be an uphill struggle!

    One good thing is that they've checked the turbo out and it all seems ok so that's bit of a relief.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

 

 

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