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View Poll Results: Which on next?

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  • Brembo GT Kit

    24 77.42%
  • Milltek System

    7 22.58%
  • Scorpion System

    0 0%
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  1. #1
    S3quatt's Avatar
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    Unhappy GT Kit or Exhaust

    Help me decide peeps...

    I'm torn between my next purchase,

    Should i go for:

    A Brembo GT kit
    Milltek
    Or Scorpion system???
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

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  3. #2
    s3_tny's Avatar
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    I'd say brakes mate as you'll get more results from uprated brakes than you would any exhaust

    my 2p worth anyway

  4. #3
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    Zorst vote from me. Unless you're planning to go BT I don't see the point in spending big bucks on Brembo brakes when you can get some decent pads and discs which will do just as good a job.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  5. #4
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    I'd say go with the brakes. Once you get a good set of brakes you can really start uping the power and know that you can stop. I'd say brakes and suspension are two key elements to consider when starting a build. And besides you can't go wrong with some beautiful brakes tucked under each fender!!

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanthatcan View Post
    Zorst vote from me. Unless you're planning to go BT I don't see the point in spending big bucks on Brembo brakes when you can get some decent pads and discs which will do just as good a job.
    You cannot get pads / standard sized discs to work on an S3 that gives performance equal to the standard Brembo set up, as it works out of the box...period.
    Many have tried...all have failed.
    Add better pads to the Brembos and you are in a completely different league again.

    Brembos every time...as it actually adds something to the car, and removes the weak point of the crap standard brakes.


    Adding a full exhaust will give you...nothing.
    Maybe a couple of BHP at best, which you can't notice.


    The brakes you will...every drive.


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  7. #6
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    I think it's a question of each person's priorities. If you do a lot of fast road/track driving then yeah I can understand wanting the best brakes available. Coming from a little Toyota Yaris I'm very happy with the standard brakes on the S3 and would rather spend the money on something else.
    2001 S3 AMK in black - Ambient lighting kit and Aero wipers.
    Is it wrong to love your car more than your girlfriend? - When you no longer have a girlfriend it's fine!

  8. #7
    abdus's Avatar
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    brakes

  9. #8
    S3ren's Avatar
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    i'm saying Brakes too...........i've got a milltek exhaust on mine not really made any diffence but feel safer with bigger Brakes if i had that sort of money.
    chips remap, milltek exhaust, eibach springs, bailey dv, neuspeed tie-bars, BBS LMs, 15mm eibach spacers, lcr front splitter

  10. #9
    Aky
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    I'd do brakes first, cos the exhaust will mean you want to drive it harder so you can hear it - (does sound quite good I think) but then you won't be able to stop! When you do go for an exhaust go for non-res. Its not chavvy!

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by themanthatcan View Post
    Zorst vote from me. Unless you're planning to go BT I don't see the point in spending big bucks on Brembo brakes when you can get some decent pads and discs which will do just as good a job.
    No chance!

    Brembos 1st, you will see a great improvement for the cash you'll spend not just hear a different noise with no performance gains!
    2001 Audi S3 l MTM Remap l 252.7bhp 432.4Nm l Forge 007P l ECS Porsche Stage 2v2 Front Brake Set-up l ECS Stage 1 Rear Brake Set-up l 18" RS4 Alloy Wheels


  12. #11
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    I'd go brakes first especially if your running big Lambo wheels (as per your pic).

    Noggy Blue 225 TT - Forge Split 'R' DV - 18' Oettinger's - Noggy Blue Callipers

  13. #12
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    You cannot get pads / standard sized discs to work on an S3 that gives performance equal to the standard Brembo set up, as it works out of the box...period.
    I absolutely guarantee that if you put braided hoses, new decent fluid and Ferodo DS3000 pads on the 312mm setup, it will stop better than the standard Brembo GT kit.


    It wont stop as quickly, but it will stop better 'overall'. The pads are rubbish, even though the calipers are great, you can fade brembo pads REALLY quickly on a fast track. As I have done.

    Christ, I managed to fade the 4x brembo brakes on a Boxster 2.7 the weekend just gone running Brembo branded Textar pads.

    No way you'd ever fade DS3000s.

    That said, between exhaust and brembos - brembos every time.

    Or get some DS3000s and a Milltek cat back for the same money
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  14. #13
    S3quatt's Avatar
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    Spacers

    Out of curiosity...
    Does anyone know if I'll need spacers with the GT kit?
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

  15. #14
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    What wheels have you got?
    If it is the 17 Avus then I think they fit without spacers.
    03 Ebony black S3, Dieselgeek short shift, its started..

  16. #15
    HTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern View Post
    I absolutely guarantee that if you put braided hoses, new decent fluid and Ferodo DS3000 pads on the 312mm setup, it will stop better than the standard Brembo GT kit.
    Sorry to hijack, but I was under the impression that the standard brake lines were metal underneath the rubber exterior?

  17. #16
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    They are, but they are a much larger bore than aftermarket braided hoses.

    So with new braided hoses, you reduce the bore thus its easier to apply the same pressure.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  18. #17
    S3quatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4jon View Post
    What wheels have you got?
    If it is the 17 Avus then I think they fit without spacers.

    Got the standard Avus for winter & 19" Lambo reps for summmer..
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

  19. #18
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    I would go miltek, half the price of the Brembo's, then do what Dave said about the brake set up in his other thread , decent pads, fluid, discs & hoses and theres your 800ish spent!!

  20. #19
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    my milltek knocks and annoys me, my Brembo GT kit is amazing.....

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern View Post
    I absolutely guarantee that if you put braided hoses, new decent fluid and Ferodo DS3000 pads on the 312mm setup, it will stop better than the standard Brembo GT kit.


    It wont stop as quickly, but it will stop better 'overall'. The pads are rubbish, even though the calipers are great, you can fade brembo pads REALLY quickly on a fast track. As I have done.
    And I can absolutely guarantee you are not correct in the majority of cases.


    Let's not forget I had uprated pads, hoses, discs and fluid on my S3 before I went to the Brembos.

    The reason I went to Brembos is because the 312mm set up WILL stop you just as well on good pads etc...it'll do it once. Maybe twice.
    Not all day long.

    The Brembos lasted many trackdays, on standard pads, with a 280 BHP S3.

    The 312mm set up just isn't as good...and you always have the option to uprgage the Brembo pads...and that takes things to a different level.


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  22. #21
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Which pads did you have before you went Brembo? What was the friction co-efficient over the normal range of operating temperatures?

    Standard Brembo GT kit pads are rubbish, the only thing that keeps them stopping is the fact the 4 calipers produce a greater amount of friction than would normally be applied to pads of that friction co-efficient.

    I have a 2.7 Boxster sat on my drive which has Porsche/Brembo branded pads and 4 piston monobloc calipers all round. The discs are 297mm and 292mm and the fluid is Motul RBF600.

    The boxster weighs around 1300kg, so lighter than the S3, therefore less rolling intertia to stop.

    I can fade the brakes on the boxster within ten minutes hard driving on roads, nevermind the track. Bear in mind here it has 4 pots front and rear, a LOT more braking power than an S3.

    I absolutely cannot fade DS3000s on 312mm Audi brakes. I can set the rears smoking on a fast track such as Donington, which i did whilst running DS2500s.

    I dont think you have experienced the DS3000 pads, as they WILL stop all day long. A pad that Bill Brockbank can run on his Ibiza without fade is most certainly a pad 99% of us can run without it fading too.

    You are correct, the Brembos with decent pads suddenly become monster brakes but you are discounting the 312mm on the basis that you have had them fade, which is not something 160 pads do.

    I'd rather save the weight on the brakes by having the 312s, run decent pads and most importantly, save money as to buy the Brembo set, and run decent pads costs more than two sets of 312mm.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  23. #22
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    Mintex F4Rs.

    Equal to DS3000s in my view. Also not a road pad.

    Well done Dave..you are the only person I have ever heard of to fade Boxster brakes.


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  24. #23
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    You obviously dont hear of many people then???

    Just because they are on a Porsche it doesnt mean OEM is good. If you look on the forums, quite a few people complain about the poor OEM pads.

    Not hard with pads that have a friction co-efficient of about 0.4-0.5, they are going to give up way before the fluid/caliper does.

    I cant find anything on tech specs for the Mintex so if they are as good/better than DS3000s is pure speculation.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern View Post
    You obviously dont hear of many people then???

    Just because they are on a Porsche it doesnt mean OEM is good. If you look on the forums, quite a few people complain about the poor OEM pads.
    I'l know plenty of Boxster owners, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.4...and none have issues with brake pads on the road.
    And I'm on many Porsche forums...and again, you don't hear of too many Boxster owners complaining of poor brakes.

    But you manage to kill them in 10 mins on the road...'course you do Dave.


    Not hard with pads that have a friction co-efficient of about 0.4-0.5, they are going to give up way before the fluid/caliper does.
    So you have these single piston callipers...with high friction pads and high boiling point fluid...and the calliper flexes.
    Don't tell me it doesn't...the insides of my wheels show me where my '312' single piston callipers flex as it's ground the powder coat off, so close is the clearance over the brakes...and you get round that how exactly?

    Single piston type callipers are weak...you can change the pads, lines, fluid etc as much as you want...but they still have weaknesses over 4 pots...as you well know.

    Or are all major Sportscar makers wrong?
    Perhaps they should go back to sliding callipers? And suffer flex, sticking slided, uneven pad wear, pad flex etc.


    I cant find anything on tech specs for the Mintex so if they are as good/better than DS3000s is pure speculation.
    You didn't look very hard.



    Do you have the data for DS3000s...as driving the same car with those vs DS3000s (my pads into a friends trackday Golf. vs his DS3000s) gave no indication the DS3000 was vastly better.


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  26. #25
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Glen, I think you've misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

    Regarding the Boxsters, you'll find very little on the UK forums regarding anything technical, and certainly very little about brakes etc, I think English/UK people that buy Porsches are very like the same people that buy Audi. Its a brand snobbery thing, and a level to be attained.
    If you look on the US Porsche forums you'll find a LOT more information, and bags of people complaining about the pads, and lots of people using uprated kit.

    Again, its not hard to reduce braking effectiveness on pads with a 0.4 friction after several hard stops.

    You appear to be insinuating that I think Brembos are not as good as the 312mm setup, thats completely incorrect, they are MUCH better. However, looking at it objectively, A typical S3 is worth 8K. Brembo GT kit is 800 as a standard kit, thats 1/10th the price of the car and the pads are dire, and the discs warp at even the first sniff of heat.

    To bring the brembos up to the same level of abuse-ability and fade resistance, you would need some decent pads (90 for DS2500) and some solid discs (250 from eBay) so again you are adding money to the equation.

    However, a very very good 312mm setup will cost you 290 for the motul, DS3000s and ATE powerdiscs.

    You could 'almost' buy three full sets of replacement 312mm brakes for the price of one standard Brembo kit that absolutely will not resist fade as well as the DS3000s on 312mm.

    Granted, they are a better system and the potential is immense, but at the cost of 1/10 the value of the car?!?

    P.S. I have not yet noticed uneven pad wear on individual pads on my system, the insides wear quicker than the outsides but the pad surface itself is level.

    As for the Mintex, your graph clearly shows a maximum friction coefficient of just over 0.5, which would put them against the DS2500s. The DS3000s have a friction coefficient of 0.62, which is a huge real world difference.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  27. #26
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    If i were you i would go for the Brembo's mate, if you decide to go for the exhaust though i recommend you go for a Supersprint system. The quality is better then the two you listed imo.

    I'm also a big fan of the DS3000's if you can stretch your budget to the brembo's and DS3000's you will have as good a braking setup as your ever likely to need short of a full race setup.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  28. #27
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    S3steve, Where did you get your superspint system from and how much did it cost?? Ive heard they are silly money?? about 650

  29. #28
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    Thumbs up

    well I voted for Brembo's and all I know is that they stop the car better than the originals so I don't give a f***

  30. #29
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Quote Originally Posted by voorhees View Post
    well I voted for Brembo's and all I know is that they stop the car better than the originals so I don't give a f***
    What you 'know' isnt correct in all cases though is it, in fact a mere few posts above this is complicated numbers with reasons for and against.

    Audi buyers = Brand snobs.

    P.S. And Brembos are proper, worldly sh1te compared to AP Brakes, why havent you all got APs?????
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  31. #30
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern View Post
    What you 'know' isnt correct in all cases though is it, in fact a mere few posts above this is complicated numbers with reasons for and against.

    Audi buyers = Brand snobs.

    P.S. And Brembos are proper, worldly sh1te compared to AP Brakes, why havent you all got APs?????
    what I know may be incorrect in all cases Dave I really am too laid back to care
    AP brakes problem was that the waiting list was longer than Brembos (the price was higher but didn't factor) they are only down the road as well.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budgy Smuggler View Post
    S3steve, Where did you get your superspint system from and how much did it cost?? Ive heard they are silly money?? about 650

    I managed to pick one up second hand so got a bargain. They arent the cheapest out there but the quality and fit more than justify the price imo. I think you can get them for circa 550 if you shop around which isnt much more than the miltek system.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern View Post
    Glen, I think you've misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

    Regarding the Boxsters, you'll find very little on the UK forums regarding anything technical, and certainly very little about brakes etc, I think English/UK people that buy Porsches are very like the same people that buy Audi. Its a brand snobbery thing, and a level to be attained.
    If you look on the US Porsche forums you'll find a LOT more information, and bags of people complaining about the pads, and lots of people using uprated kit.
    Possibly so...but the people I go for drives with have no issues...and if you saw my brakes when I changed them you'd see they were 'used'...and the Boxsters have no issues when driving like that on the highland roads.


    You appear to be insinuating that I think Brembos are not as good as the 312mm setup, thats completely incorrect, they are MUCH better. However, looking at it objectively, A typical S3 is worth 8K. Brembo GT kit is 800 as a standard kit, thats 1/10th the price of the car and the pads are dire, and the discs warp at even the first sniff of heat.

    To bring the brembos up to the same level of abuse-ability and fade resistance, you would need some decent pads (90 for DS2500) and some solid discs (250 from eBay) so again you are adding money to the equation.

    However, a very very good 312mm setup will cost you 290 for the motul, DS3000s and ATE powerdiscs.
    True...but for a road kit...DS3000s aren't exactly quiet or refined, are they?
    The Brembos appear OEM..which may be a factor for some who don't like their brakes squealing like a pig.


    Granted, they are a better system and the potential is immense, but at the cost of 1/10 the value of the car?!?
    Each to their own...
    I'd sill spend it again over a good 312mm set up.


    P.S. I have not yet noticed uneven pad wear on individual pads on my system, the insides wear quicker than the outsides but the pad surface itself is level.
    Yup, insides wear faster than outsides.


    As for the Mintex, your graph clearly shows a maximum friction coefficient of just over 0.5, which would put them against the DS2500s. The DS3000s have a friction coefficient of 0.62, which is a huge real world difference.
    You'd need to see brake force applied against repeated stops too...which the info isn't there for DS3000s on that graph.
    I didn't buy F4Rs because they were the most aggressive...but because they bite well and are linear, throughout the pedal stroke and throughout the day, so easy to know exactly where your ABS point is..from stop 1 to stop 100.

    As you know...there is more to a good pad than just the friction level.


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  34. #33
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Glad to see we pretty much agree on things again!

    I am in no way saying the Brembos are rubbish, simply that 'as standard' a good 312mm setup can be better.

    There is loads of DS3000 info floating about, they remain at a pretty constant level of friction right throughout the heat range and that friction level is well above the Mintex pads.

    But there is one thing to note, you are correct about them not being refined.

    Braking with DS3000s is similar to hitting a large tree.
    (very harsh, very immediate stop!)
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  35. #34
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    Ok So just to throw something else into the equation...

    Would it be worth holding out to try & get a set of Cupra R Brembos?

    Bear in mind that my car is never tracked, I just want a good reliable set of stoppers as i had some BF & it scared me!
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

  36. #35
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    Yup...LCR Bermbos would be just fine...if you can find some.

    you then have the option of better pads if you feel you need them.


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  37. #36
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    Ok from what I've been reading, it's the GT kit, unless i can find a set of LCR's.
    AP might be better but I'm too greedy for that

    By the sounds of it though I'm assuming DS3000's are more of a track pad.
    Does this mean they are crap when cool? Or too noisy etc?

    I'm thinking of seeing if I can get a decent deal on the GT kit with DS2500/3000's instead of standard pads... Opinions please
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

  38. #37
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    DS3000s are not a road pad...they squeal like a pig.
    DS2500s are noisy when braking, but not overly so...and I suffer no squealing with them...so fine for the road.

    If track performance is your goal...then by all means try DS3000s
    For road use, DS2500s will be great.
    In saying that, for road use, the standard pads are also perfect...you'll not need any more than the standard fit Brembo GT Jr pads on the road.


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  39. #38
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    Cheers Glen

    Knew I could expect a prompt response from you
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

  40. #39
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    I've just had the GT Kit on my s3 and needed 8mm spacers i've got rs4 alloys(new style) but after 1 month the discs warped (no track day use just normal road use)getting sorted now. I did upgrade to the silver colour caliper and they do look the dogs dangglies.

  41. #40
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    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sunny Scotland
    Posts
    595
    CRAP!!!Sorry all

    Just realised what I'd written on the poll...

    The 3rd choice was supposed to be a Supersprint exhaust, Not Scorpion...

    Never mind..
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

 

 
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