EM TuningChris Nott
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  1. #1
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    RS6 brakes for S3 ?

    Hello everyone,

    I have a good opportunity to buy RS6 front brakes kit (<2008).
    Is there a way to make them fit ? I assume that I have to buy matching diameter/thickness rotors, but what about calipers, how do you mount them ?

    I've seen many different brake mods like a GTR with Porsche brakes, or Evo 8 with brakes from E55 AMG, so I assume it shouldn't be a problem. What do you think ?

    Thanks,

    Mike

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  3. #2
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    I wouldn't waste my time and effort...
    They are huge and heavy...and no better than a set of Brembos...which will suit the master cylinder better, weigh less, fit properly and work at least as well, if not better.

    It may not even be possible/easy to get the callipers to fit the hubs...never mind get a set of discs to line up.

    Why re-invent the wheel?
    Brilliant upgrade kits can be bought for sensible money that just work...


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  4. #3
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Pretty much any caliper can be made to fit any car with the right adapters, but the cost of getting this work done makes it more sense to to go for one of the off the shelf kits available, the design work for these kits is spread across all the kits thus bringing the cost down they should also have taken into consideration piston sizes in relation to your master cylinder.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  5. #4
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    Audi RS6 is 5X112 stud pattern? Audi S3(8L) is 5X100, so that's your first stumbling block, still want them?



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



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    Stud pattern is not a problem - there are many high quality adapters (like h&r), so I can use RS6 discs.
    There is of course other option - matching discs for 5x100 stud pattern, I found some after a few minutes of looking through the Internet.
    If calipers can be mounted using adapters then everything is ready to go.

    Issues that I'm afraid of now:

    1. Adapters converting the stud pattern push the wheels out by 2cm on each side. Will the driving feel remain ok ? Since many people use them just to make the car look wider, or to fit wheels I hope this won't be a problem.

    2. Calipers are very heavy, and s3 is already too heavy in the front - this could also make the driving worse.
    Last edited by mik_sti; 24th March 2008 at 16:47.

  7. #6
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Why are you so keen on using RS6 calipers? How cheap are you getting them?
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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    Cheaper than buying OE discs and pads for front.

    I am keen on using them 1stly because I had an opportunity to ride in S4 (b5) with RS6 brakes and they worked incredibly good. I couldn't imagine how well they'd perform in S3. And secondly because they're so cheap.

    ATM there is a 328 mm 4 piston Stoptech kit in the front and ATE discs + pads in the back. My car is mostly for fast driving around track, and they aren't good enough.

    Of course I am considering buying a 355mm 6 piston set of Stoptech's or something similar, but I have those RS6 brakes just under my nose for so little money.
    Last edited by mik_sti; 24th March 2008 at 18:52.

  9. #8
    hud at ye bam

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    You won't get better braking with the RS6 calipers unless you change the master cylinder. There's just not enough brake fluid to make use of them. And if you're wanting to drive fast around tracks, then the extra unsprung Kg's will not help the handling of your car. Bigger isn't always better.
    [/sarcasm]

  10. #9
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    brembo gt kit, groved brembo discs, ds2500 and motul rbf 600 fluid worked well on track for me. ihi on mk4 golf, so got plenty of stick.
    need some big wheels to fit rs6's under?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChriS3 View Post
    You won't get better braking with the RS6 calipers unless you change the master cylinder. There's just not enough brake fluid to make use of them. And if you're wanting to drive fast around tracks, then the extra unsprung Kg's will not help the handling of your car. Bigger isn't always better.
    Unfortunately for anything bigger I must change the master cylinder. I already counted that.

    To balance the weight after putting extra kgs to the front I'd put the battery in the back.

    I'm a bit stubbom i know. Too many things whispering to me that this swap could be great.

    Quote Originally Posted by mat20vt View Post
    brembo gt kit, groved brembo discs, ds2500 and motul rbf 600 fluid worked well on track for me. ihi on mk4 golf, so got plenty of stick.
    need some big wheels to fit rs6's under?
    For reprogrammed ECU+exhaust power, 4 pot Stoptech front + ATE back was enough. Now the car has about 75% power over stock + better suspension and they're too weak.
    4 pot Brembo GT is similar to what I have now. 6 pot Brembo GT is one of the most expensive 6pots - I don't have so much to spend.
    Last edited by mik_sti; 24th March 2008 at 19:26.

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    cost of replacement discs not put u off? cant be cheap?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mat20vt View Post
    cost of replacement discs not put u off? cant be cheap?
    If I'd go for adapters I can use original RS6 rotors - they're only a bit more expensive than disc for 2pc Stoptech's I have now.
    If I buy a matching 2pc set it's a bit more expensive but i'd have to spend the same with any bigger 6pot kit.

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    I dont think the hub adaptors will work mate, bare in mind they fit between the disk and the wheel, thus you still wont be able to bolt the Disks to the Hub still. To use the RS6 Callipers i think you will have to run seperate bells and rotors, obviously this will reduce the unsprung mass improving handling but will also be more costly initially.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  15. #14
    hud at ye bam

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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_sti View Post
    Unfortunately for anything bigger I must change the master cylinder. I already counted that.

    To balance the weight after putting extra kgs to the front I'd put the battery in the back.

    I'm a bit stubbom i know. Too many things whispering to me that this swap could be great.
    Putting some weight in the back won't help in this case. Its the unsprung weight that will kill your handling and make the turn-in dull. Adding the discs and calipers will be bad enough, then you need bigger wheels to clear it all, plus the hub adaptors. You might also need spacers on top of the hub adaptors to clear the calipers so the wheels could be sticking out way too far.


    For reprogrammed ECU+exhaust power, 4 pot Stoptech front + ATE back was enough. Now the car has about 75% power over stock + better suspension and they're too weak.
    4 pot Brembo GT is similar to what I have now. 6 pot Brembo GT is one of the most expensive 6pots - I don't have so much to spend.
    You'll get better results with switching to race pads. I used Hawk HT-10's in my Porsche big reds (nearly identical to Stoptech) and the things nearly gave me seat-belt bruises everytime I needed to stop.

    You must be running a big turbo then? Which one?
    [/sarcasm]

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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_sti View Post
    Unfortunately for anything bigger I must change the master cylinder. I already counted that.

    To balance the weight after putting extra kgs to the front I'd put the battery in the back.

    I'm a bit stubbom i know. Too many things whispering to me that this swap could be great.


    For reprogrammed ECU+exhaust power, 4 pot Stoptech front + ATE back was enough. Now the car has about 75% power over stock + better suspension and they're too weak.
    4 pot Brembo GT is similar to what I have now. 6 pot Brembo GT is one of the most expensive 6pots - I don't have so much to spend.
    I simply cannot believe you can't get an S3 to stop on a set of Brembos.

    It's got bugger all to do with how much power you have...more how late you brake and how much energy you have to dissipate. If you buy the correct set of pads for the Bermbos, you'll not need any more.
    Same should be true of ther StopTechs.

    Get enough cooling to the brakes - somethnig the S3 isn't too good at...and get some more aggressive pads in there.
    My Brembos were enough to lock the wheels up at 100, and haul the car down time after time, road or track...so either the StopTechs aren't matched correctly to the MS or the pads are crap.

    I just can't see the need to add massive discs and callipers, crippling the front suspension with additional unsprung weight and affecting the handling.
    The RS6 brakes weren't regarded as the last word in braking performance on an RS6...so why choose something like that?

    Moving the battery to the boot won't help, as Chris has said...it'll help the static balance of the car, but won't affect unsprung weight the suspension has to control.

    With regard for the MS...have you found a replacement?
    How big?


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  17. #16
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    FYI: http://www.ksport.co.uk/products.asp?f=brakes

    * 8-Piston Aluminum calipers (Rear - 6 piston)
    * High quality brake pads
    * D.O.T. Compliant Stainless steel brake lines
    * Machined aluminum hats
    * Carbon steel brackets
    * 330mm (13") large ventilated discs (17" wheels required)
    * Ksport or Ferodo Brake Pads
    Jester
    "On my second S3 and loving it. RS3 here I come!!!"

  18. #17
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    If you really must go to bigger brakes than the Brembo GT kit, then I dont think you can get better than the AP Racing Kits. There is a reason AP Racing are the choice for so many of the big Race teams in this country and around the rest of the world.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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    Thanx for advice guys.

    I guess I'm going to try to buy better discs and pads for StopTechs.
    If this won't work good enough, I found a nice Porsche Cayenne calipers mod (355mm), maybe I'll try that.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChriS3
    You must be running a big turbo then? Which one?
    td05 from Evo 9

  20. #19
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    Oh no...don't even think about the Cayenne callipers.
    They weigh a metric tonne each and need a master cylinder the size of a beer tin to move them.
    They'll be awful to use.

    Try some fast road/track pads...like DS2500s...and if that doesn't do it..go for some proper competition pads.
    Mintex Racing do some...not the normal Mintex 'racing' crap that comes in a bling box...but the special order competition stuff that you need to phone them and ask for..F4Rs or similar.

    I have them on a Mk3 Golf GTI on TT/S3 callipers and it feels like it'll burst blood vessels in your eyes when you hit the brakes. Noisy as hell and eats discs for breakfast...but uber aggressive and boy, they work.


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  21. #20
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    Might be worth looking at the DS3000's mate, Ferodo dont recomend these for road use due to cold performance, however I have run these on the road and had no problems with cold bite (unlike some other race pads), they offer phenominal braking but as with the F4Rs Glenn is recommending they arent gentle on your disks.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Steve View Post
    Might be worth looking at the DS3000's mate, Ferodo dont recomend these for road use due to cold performance, however I have run these on the road and had no problems with cold bite (unlike some other race pads), they offer phenominal braking but as with the F4Rs Glenn is recommending they arent gentle on your disks.
    I have DS2500s all round on the 996 and they are great. A little noisy perhaps...but as you say Steve, no issues with cold performance...and better when warm.

    The F4Rs are WAY more aggressive though...and they squeal like a pig! REALLY squeal.


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  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    I have DS2500s all round on the 996 and they are great. A little noisy perhaps...but as you say Steve, no issues with cold performance...and better when warm.

    The F4Rs are WAY more aggressive though...and they squeal like a pig! REALLY squeal.
    The DS3000's are alot more aggresive than the DS2500's (coefficient of friction of 0.62 as apposed to 0.5 for the DS2500's). I never had any squeal problems with them mate, they might be worth a look when you change the F4Rs. On the squeal note I have found that this can also be down to the disks used, some pads just dont seem to like some disks.
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  24. #23
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    Hell 0.62!
    I'll give them a look...the DS2500s are pretty good for a road/track car I think.
    Can't help thinking by DS3000/F4Rs you are giving up a lot of the 'road' element.


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  25. #24
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    Yes mate, used to supply them to alot of the Touring car teams back in the old Super Touring days, also had alot of customers with the big AP brake kits on EVO's, Impreza's, Escort Cossies etc running them, they were all keen on track days though and were happy to have live with the disk wear, to have the braking.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three
    ...but the special order competition stuff that you need to phone them and ask for..F4Rs or similar.

    I have them on a Mk3 Golf GTI on TT/S3 callipers and it feels like it'll burst blood vessels in your eyes when you hit the brakes. Noisy as hell and eats discs for breakfast...but uber aggressive and boy, they work.
    I had Carbon Lorraine pads on my Lancer Evo with EBC Turbogrooves discs (btw not really the greatest discs) and after 8 km asphalt SS discs looked like this:
    http://picasaweb.google.com/mstrasze...48560878856178
    Discs had about 300 km of break in before that, looked like new.
    However I could block the wheels at high speed using only my toe, and it was generally difficult to brake hard without them blocking all the time. On - off style.

    Now I have grey Pagid's with stock discs and they're braking really good, wear off slowly and don't destroy the discs.

    For S3 Stoptechs I think I'll try ds3000 - they're more for track use than 2500 and that's what I'm looking for.
    Last edited by mik_sti; 26th March 2008 at 20:51.

  27. #26
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Lucky you an Evo and a Big Trubo S3

    For track use the DS3000's are hard to beat, hope they give you what your looking for if not then an upgrade to a better quality calliper AP Racing or Brembo is gonna be the next step.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
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