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  1. #1
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    Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Hi all,

    As you may know I just had my S3 chipped at AmD and I was showing my mate tonight. We were going along a dual carridgeway when a new shape M3 passed us in the outside lane (going quite fast). We got to the roundabout and I thought that I would have a go just to see how much of a difference there was between the 2 cars.

    I went in the lane behind him and we both took off to go down the next Dual carridgeway. He got the power down before me as he was in front but we both caned it down the dual and I was supprised that I kept up with him! He was pulling very very slowly away from me but I was expecting him to easily leave me behind! And I was 2 up and he was on his own!

    I'm not saying that he wasn't faster than me but it was suprising to see that it aint "much" faster!

    Very happy indeed.

    Thanks for listening
    Rich.

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Most people dont know how to really cain a car, M3's are very fast and had it been a half decent driver I dont think you would have stood a chance because it would have left you for dead!

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I don't see why the M3 weighs 1570kg and produces 219bhp/ton and the S3 weighs 1370kg and in standard form produces 166bhp/ton, now think what it would produce once its been chipped and you will find it probably isn't much off the M3

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    I dont think you would have stood a chance because it would have left you for dead!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Eh, no it wouldn't. You've obviously never been in a chipped car!

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Well, I've got a well 'chipped' S3 and I'd still say that a decent driver would leave me sitting in my S3.
    Especially on a track or on open winding roads...

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Ess Three - what bhp/ton does your car produce after all the work you have had done?

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    What have I started! M3's are in a way underrated and overlooked in the performance department because of the people who normally drive them, the luxury that it has and the old grey haired folk lol who know as much about the M3's capabilities as they do about aliens. Dont get me wrong S3 are quick, my mates got a chipped S3, but comparing it to the brute force of a M3 come on. I have raced my mates M3 and chipped S3, M3 left me for dead, I kept up with the S3 I didnt beat it but it wasnt going anywhere......

    I have also seen my mates modified Audi RS4 go up against the M3 it was close, not much in it either way cant remember who won lol. Trying to tell me a chipped S3 will keep up with a RS4?

    What is written on paper and what happens on the road or in real driving situations are completely different. I merely pointed out the fact that M3's driven properly would not give a S3 a chance.

    BTW Irish I have driven both M3's and Chipped S3's trust me no comparison.

    James I know what you mean, weight matters a hell of a lot but remember 4wd power loss compared to one of the most advanced engine management systems in the world of the M3 is not fair in comparisons.

    Thank you Ess_Three, a man who knows his cars.

    Solo

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    M3's are very quick but as I haven't even sat in a chipped S3 I couldn't really say, I was just trying to look at it from a power to weight ratio kind of thing

    As you said Ess_Three really does know his cars

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    What have I started! M3's are in a way underrated and overlooked in the performance department because of the people who normally drive them, the luxury that it has and the old grey haired folk lol who know as much about the M3's capabilities as they do about aliens. Dont get me wrong S3 are quick, my mates got a chipped S3, but comparing it to the brute force of a M3 come on. I have raced my mates M3 and chipped S3, M3 left me for dead, I kept up with the S3 I didnt beat it but it wasnt going anywhere......

    I have also seen my mates modified Audi RS4 go up against the M3 it was close, not much in it either way cant remember who won lol. Trying to tell me a chipped S3 will keep up with a RS4?

    What is written on paper and what happens on the road or in real driving situations are completely different. I merely pointed out the fact that M3's driven properly would not give a S3 a chance.

    BTW Irish I have driven both M3's and Chipped S3's trust me no comparison.

    James I know what you mean, weight matters a hell of a lot but remember 4wd power loss compared to one of the most advanced engine management systems in the world of the M3 is not fair in comparisons.

    Thank you Ess_Three, a man who knows his cars.

    Solo

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't ant to start a forum agrument here, but I think you're wrong about the kind of people that drive M3's. If you're out to spend 40k+ on a car your an enthusiast to begin with, and someone who chooses an M3 is going to purchase that car for the exact reason it's intended.

    Also the engine management system dosen't tranmsission loss in any way?

    Anyone know the torque figures of the two cars? I expect the chipped S3 to put putting down some healthy numbers from low down in the range [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    The guy in the M3 was trying believe me! And as I said in my first post - he was pulling very slowly away from me but not as quickly as you would expect!

    The guy was young and is always caning the car around where I live.

    I am not saying that I could beat him (and I wouldn't) but I had expected to be wasted by him and wasn't!

    Just posing what happened!

    Cheers
    Rich.




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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I bet he is saying he needs his M3 to get chipped now [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    What have I started! M3's are in a way underrated and overlooked in the performance department because of the people who normally drive them, the luxury that it has and the old grey haired folk lol who know as much about the M3's capabilities as they do about aliens. Dont get me wrong S3 are quick, my mates got a chipped S3, but comparing it to the brute force of a M3 come on. I have raced my mates M3 and chipped S3, M3 left me for dead, I kept up with the S3 I didnt beat it but it wasnt going anywhere......

    I have also seen my mates modified Audi RS4 go up against the M3 it was close, not much in it either way cant remember who won lol. Trying to tell me a chipped S3 will keep up with a RS4?

    What is written on paper and what happens on the road or in real driving situations are completely different. I merely pointed out the fact that M3's driven properly would not give a S3 a chance.

    BTW Irish I have driven both M3's and Chipped S3's trust me no comparison.

    James I know what you mean, weight matters a hell of a lot but remember 4wd power loss compared to one of the most advanced engine management systems in the world of the M3 is not fair in comparisons.

    Thank you Ess_Three, a man who knows his cars.

    Solo

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Guys,
    Would you say an STANDARD 350Z would totally kill a chipped S3?
    The reason i ask is ive got this awesome MPEG file around 10mins long from a race track in Japan which puts the 350Z, M3,Boxter, H-S2000 and a very unfair camera car (Skyline GT-R)AND the 350z totally wiped the floor with all of them, cornering very well and very quick on the straights.
    The skyline only managed to take it on the big straight on lap 3!!
    The S2000 wasn,t too good on the straights but totally made up on the corners and the boxter (not S) was nearly lapped and the driver kept saying in subtitles "this car sucks on the track but the interior is awesome".. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif[/img]
    As for the M3 ...Yea its really quick and was gaining slightly in a straight line but the Driver kept saying "man this car weighs a ton and showed on every tight bend and even over-run a couple allowing the S2000 to gain second place.
    Yea you could argue the drivers but they were all proffesional drivers.
    I'l post the MPEG if anyone's interested?

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    It all depends on the driver!!! Harry Kewell (Liverpool Footballer) had a M3 when he played for Leeds, man it was quick!!!

    I live with a malaysian Formula 3000 driver and I have 2 cars, A3 1.8TSport and a Peugeot 206 GTI 180.

    He was driving the 180 last week on A roads in Birmingham and a Civic Type R (197BHP) was in the way. Well guess who won??? Yep the F3000 driver due to the fact he knew how the car handled and the fact that if you do not trust your car then no way can you drive like a maniac.

    A CTR would obvious leave the 180 behind on motorway and also on A and B roads if I was driving!!! But think of it the other way my flatmate driving the CTR man the 180 would be left behind big time!!!!

    He has also been offered a contract in Malaysia for the F2000 this year at 75K a year plus sponsorship for three years he is still thinking about it!!! I think he is stupid if I was in his position I would have gone without thinking!!!

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Fair cop pal,
    but like i said they were/are ALL profesional drivers so im a bit confused as to your comments [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
    Has your flatmate ever raced an M3 in his Pug [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] now that would be interesting.

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I have seen the vid and to be honest the Skyline could have taken the lead when ever he wanted but he was holding back due to him being the camera car

    good vid though, I remember the comments about the M3 weighing a ton [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    James M said:
    Ess Three - what bhp/ton does your car produce after all the work you have had done?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    About 198 BHP / tonne
    And about 237 lb-ft / tonne

    But I can still tell you that me in my S3 against my alter ego in an M3, I'd put my mortgage on the M3.
    I'm not saying in a straight line that in certain circumstances an S3 won't match an M3...it will.
    But an M3 is a thing of tactile beauty compared with the S3...it comes alive in your hands. Perhaps not as much as an E30 M3...but a hell of a lot more so than an S3's numb and dead chassis.

    On roads with twisties or on tracks, the M3 will be streets ahead, if the driver actually knows how to exploit his steed.

    In the wet, on roundabouts or with a non-competent driver in the M3, a chipped S3 will be all over his rear bumper.

    But you have to be honest...overall the M3 is a better drivers car...


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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I must admit I really like the M3, you seem to have a dislike for your S3 so why have you spent lots of money on it when you could have just bought an M3?

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    James M said:
    I have seen the vid and to be honest the Skyline could have taken the lead when ever he wanted but he was holding back due to him being the camera car

    good vid though, I remember the comments about the M3 weighing a ton [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah totally see what your talking about just by looking at the start the twin turbo flying machine gets [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked2.gif[/img]...AND after it takes the Z its about half a lap infront in no time [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked2.gif[/img]

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    awesome car!

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    Well, I've got a well 'chipped' S3 and I'd still say that a decent driver would leave me sitting in my S3.
    Especially on a track or on open winding roads...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah but thats like saying i'll race Michael Schumacher him in a saxo VTS you in a cossie round a track...wonder who the winner would be?
    In the above case i believe it was a simple straight line race with both cars foot to the floor so drivers are surelly irrelevant?

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    would have thought the M3 being heavier and RWD might get a bit lairy round the bends as well thus loosing time

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I'm sure the M3 is a lot quicker that a chipped S3. I'm sur eof this cause I drive both on a regular basis.

    Every car has it pro's and con's. Both great cars and both fun to drive.

    This is a S3 forum so let lean to the S3. Its the car everyone wants. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

  24. #23
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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    James M said:
    I must admit I really like the M3, you seem to have a dislike for your S3 so why have you spent lots of money on it when you could have just bought an M3?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe I couldn't afford an M3 at the time?
    Maybe I dodn't want to wait?
    Or maybe it's got nothing to do with you!

    At the end of the day, what I think about the S3 is my opinion...it's a great car for what it is. But it's not an M3 rival...never will be.
    I bought it because it was suited to what I was looking for in a car at the time...but it's not 'perfect'...and never will be, it's just not capable of being that good.

    As for spending money on it...let's just say that it can be improved...vastly improved...but it'll never - for me at least - be a pure drivers car.
    In my opinion, the M3 fits that description, it's a car that requires mastering...unlike the S3 which is very easy to drive.

    I also don't like the stigma associated with driving a BMW.


  25. #24
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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    James M said:
    would have thought the M3 being heavier and RWD might get a bit lairy round the bends as well thus loosing time

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A common misconception of the M3 is that it is lairy and oversteer prone (this was my somewhat prejudiced view prior to driving one for a week) To the uninitiated, the M3 seems to be difficult to control, skittish almost and lairy in the wet, and if driven improperly then it is. However, this is the key to its appeal. Ok, you can jump it, drive 10/10ths and let the electronics save your accident from happening, but the M3 is something that to most has to learnt, adapted to and then ultimately mastered. A friend of mine runs an M roadster (arguably even better handling than the M3 and without any electronic aids) and it has taken him almost a full year to be able to drive this car to its limits - on wet roads it will easily keep ahead of many 4wd cars due to better balance, better feedback, better ultimate grip and predictability. So, you need to be careful on the throttle out of wet corners, but then you think about driving, pay very close attention to the road conditions / cambers / potholes etc and thus are ultimately these cars reward better the input they receive.

    But the problem with the M3 is price and image - they are mostly driven by footballers, sales reps and old men - bought mostly for image and few of the aforementioned drivers really know what they have and how to use it.

    I would have an M3, but I cannot justify the price. They are supreme cars, and in terms of VFM cannot easily be matched and certainly it is hard to think of a comparable car that would beat it.

    And to be honest, I would have to question the skill / commitment of the M3 driver in the chipped S3 vs M3 debate as in real terms, the M3 is much faster than its figures suggest which is an awful lot faster than an S3 with just a rechip.

    But what matter? Surely this is irrelevent anyway? You can supercharge a saxo VTS and it will beat an M3 over the 1/4 mile (and before anyone guffaws at this I have a video to prove it!) but does that make it better / faster / more rewarding - some would say yes, others not...



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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I didn't mean to step on anyone toes, just wanted to point out the mere fact the M3 is a whole lot faster.

    DickyS3 - It is true on certain days I have kept up with cars that are a lot faster then my Nova but then again these same cars have totally anhillated me on other days. I'm not saying your lying, you probably did keep up but on other days you could find it to be a whole different ball game.

    James - Me and a few mates have tried in vain to do donuts in an M3 on grass to no avail, the electronics certainly do there job, but once you turn of traction control its a whole different story. In older BMW's trust me without the aid of all these electronics you have to be ready all the time for the unexpected, in a straight line, when its slightly damp the car can just lose it. Back end just goes, but remember most of the fast cars are rwd. You just have to be more of a driver to control one. The days of uncolntrollable BMW's are over especially in new BMW's.

    James - Its not a case of disliking a certain a car, Ess_Three wouldn't drive an Audi S3 if there wasnt something about it that he liked, just saying that M3's are superior.

    I don't have nothing against S3's, I'm looking for one at the moment so i don't want anyone thinking what the hell you backing M3's for, just stating the facts. I love S3's but tbh its not for the speed, handling(if any) but of what you get. Package, comfort and a few horses when you need to get somewhere.

    Well good debate going on..... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

    Solo

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    money permitting I would probably go for the M3 CSL

    Ess_Three - I was just curious mate, thanks [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    Alonzo said:
    Fair cop pal,
    but like i said they were/are ALL profesional drivers so im a bit confused as to your comments [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
    Has your flatmate ever raced an M3 in his Pug [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] now that would be interesting.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Dude be fair you have to compare like to like!!! CTR vs Pug 180 S3 Vs M3 (well maybe) Pug106 GTI VS Saxo VTR as I said if my flatmate was driving the CTR he would have [censored] over the pug 180


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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    I didn't mean to step on anyone toes ...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    Most people dont know how to really cain a car ...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    ... because of the people who normally drive them, the luxury that it has and the old grey haired folk lol who know as much about the M3's capabilities as they do about aliens.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    For someone who's a newbie and does'nt want to step on anyone's toes ... you're not doing a bad job !!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif[/img]


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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    BMW E46 M3 2001 Quarter Mile 13.4
    Audi S3/TT Quarter Mile 14.6
    Audi S3/TT Chipped Quarter Mile 13.9 estimated.

    So not much in it as you say.

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Hi guys,

    Thanks for all the comments.

    I just want to state AGAIN that he was slowly pulling away from me, but not at the rate I thought he would. when I say slowly, he probably gained 1 to 2 car lengths on me. We both got to about 120 ish and we both eased off due to upcoming traffic.

    He certainly didn't "leave me standing".

    As someone mentioned earlier, I don't think it was down to driver skill as we were going in a straight line.

    I know the M3 is a great car and the only reason I went up against it was to see what sort of performance they are capable of! The M3 was faster but I was quite suprised and happy with the general outcome!


    Cheers
    Rich.

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Two of my friends were racing yesterday. M3 CSL vs modded Civic 1.8 Vtec (the one before the present Civic) and the M3 just could not get the civic off his rear end.........so funny!, but my friend in the M3 can not control a car as well as my other friend in the Civic.

    In the end it is driver skill, with the help of course from the car you are driving and the way it is set up in my opinion.

    They all contribute to the final result (driver skill and car) and if one is missing, then it will let the other down.

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    I have also seen my mates modified Audi RS4 go up against the M3 it was close, not much in it either way cant remember who won lol. Solo

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm sorry but if your mates RS4 couldn't shrug off an M3 then there is something seriously wrong with his car (or his driving). What modification had he had done, one of the turbo's removed? The new S4 can beat an M3 round a track, are you saying an S4 is quicker than an RS4? (let alone a modified one)

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Rich - I understand mate, even if no one else seems to. Glad you are pleased money well spent...

    Mike

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I know what I saw, nothing wrong with the RS4, tuned up yes but dont know to what power.

    Andy I know what I saw, I cant really recall as I have said before who won or whatever but there wasnt much in it and the RS4 driver and the M3 driver are both very good drivers.

    I have said before and I will say it again you can come up agains tthe same car on different days and get different results.

    Im not going by figures or whats written on paper, I saw these "races" take place hence my statements.

    Wigginer its all in the name of fun, if someones got a problem with me let me know. Im not here to start anything lmao people chill out!

    Solo

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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Well well - lots of opinion and a few facts here.

    M3 IS quicker from zero to 160kph+.

    BUT: chipped S3 has stunning mid-range (=real world road usable) torque and stunning wet weather grip. I have totally wasted an M3 on wet twisty road.

    My S3 80-120kph 3rd=3.4sec
    M3 same split=3.3sec

    Not what I would call a huge (or "wasting") difference.

    ALSO: a mate had an RS4 which he can drive. Straight line up to 160kph - gradually pulled away from me - over 160kph - blew me away. Tight twisty dry road - S3 quicker - he was NOT amused.

    The S3 is no slug guys and the M3 and RS4 are quicker cars for sure but the differences are not as great as some here contend.

    And the driver makes a HYGE difference except in straight line sprint of course.

    Cheers

  37. #36
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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    Good points Audidude!

    I was trying to find out the mid range performance figures i.e 30 - 70, 70 - 100 etc of both a chipped S3 and BMW M3 to compare.

    I remember reading a long time ago (when they were always comparing Imprezza's and S3's) that although the imprezza had a faster 0-60 time, some of the mid range figures were a hell of a lot quicker on the S3!

    One thing I have noticed is since getting mine chipped, mid range power is awesome.

    Anyone got any figures? It would be interesting to see!
    Is the M3 Six speed? Does this make a difference to mid range performance?


    Cheers
    Rich.


  38. #37
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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    David R said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    James M said:
    would have thought the M3 being heavier and RWD might get a bit lairy round the bends as well thus loosing time

    [/ QUOTE ]
    A friend of mine runs an M roadster (arguably even better handling than the M3 and without any electronic aids) and it has taken him almost a full year to be able to drive this car to its limits - on wet roads it will easily keep ahead of many 4wd cars due to better balance, better feedback, better ultimate grip and predictability. So, you need to be careful on the throttle out of wet corners, but then you think about driving, pay very close attention to the road conditions / cambers / potholes etc and thus are ultimately these cars reward better the input they receive.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I was a passenger in said car over a run in the Scottish Highlands in last year. The driver in question is very skilled and able to keep with the 4WD convey no problems. Admittedly he was working the engine hard on the revs, but the noise was worth it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I came away with a new respect for both driver and car.

  39. #38
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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    I feel i can give a fair comment here as my brother who i work 4 (and travel home the same way every nite) has a M3 Conv new shape and i have a chipped S3 and i can honestly say there's not alot in it ( I know conv are a bit slower than coupes) If hes in front he can get the better off me but if i keep the s3's turbo spinning he very rarely leaves me !! Then there's when its wet , and lets be fair 80% off the time it is in the uk i can get a fair bit off distance between us !! Then my old man who works with us whips both are arse's in his RS6 lol

    Anyone used the launch control on a M3?? quite funny indeed

    M3's are very nice cars and id love 2 own one one day

  40. #39
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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    [ QUOTE ]
    so1o said:
    Wigginer its all in the name of fun, if someones got a problem with me let me know. Im not here to start anything lmao people chill out!

    Solo

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Solo, You're right it is just a bit of fun!

    I am trying illustrate that if you make 'sweeping' comments and qualify them with 'most people' or make specific ageist references, then expect to p*#s someone off!

    If you're comfortable with that, then so am I ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love_4.gif[/img]

  41. #40
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    Re: Suprised Result with a M3 tonight!

    S3 30-50 mph in 4th 4.7secs
    50-70 mph in top 7.7secs
    60- 0 mph 2.8secs (quite a important one!)

    Impreza WRX 30-50 mph in 4th 8.0secs
    50-70 mph in top 9.6secs
    60- 0 mph 2.8secs

    All figures taken from a autocar group test. Incidently the S3 came out the fastest from 0-30mph in a time of 1.9secs!!!

 

 
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