CUstom Code or Revo?

[S3ren]

same here bud i want to but don't for the cars sake. plus i'm only really getting 22mpg now.

 

[jojo]

same here bud i want to but don't for the cars sake. plus i'm only really getting 22mpg now.

I'm averaging 25mpg normal mixed driving, and running heavy 19" rims with my AmD stage1 remap, and I averaged 22mpg on a tank which included a 100mile trek to CastleCoombe Circuit there and back, and 2 sessions of tracktime. I found the car to be more economical when remapped and driven normally, obviously booting it everywhere wil use more fuel in the long run, but how fast can you actually drive on our roads these days?

 

[ChriS3]

I'm confused now too as I want a remap soon. A revo sounds like its making the engine/turbo and other parts work harder, my mate has an APR by Awesome and has had no problems on his 20VT Leon, its been on the car for two years now IIRC

APR and Revo maps are very similar in delivery.

 

[Ess_Three]

I'm guessing the graph posted is showing power at the wheels, Dave?
225 BHP ish?
Seems a tad high...maybe not...assuming 50 BHP ish lost through the tranny.

Lets say for the purposes of debate that the 225 BHP is at the wheels...so approx 275 @ crank.

Mine was making about the same - 275 @ crank.

so same outright power...but with a big torque spike...
As below;

Anyone got a 'smooth' graph?

 

[Ess_Three]

Ess, your comments above are assuming that the turbo always must have the same power available, and that its just distributed idfferent ways. Not so with a remap, especiall with generic ones as the engine will respond to different maps different ways.

Yes, I've said that I am assuming that...
I think many of the decent S3 remaps are now seeing genuine 270+ BHP at the top end...
They differ in that some boost spike to give huge torque, and some don't.

Assuming that the top end power is similar (within 5 BHP) I still can't see what a linear power delivery - that is one without a big boost (and torque) spike makes for a better drivers car and the better option for track work?

 

[Ess_Three]

i was guna have my car done soon now i'm rearly confused but does it mean that cc would be better on the life of say the clutch and haldex if its smoother and a revo map would alot harsher. cause i've just had a new clutch and flywheel done even with standard power it still smells but i've only done about 1500 miles on it so far.

My old S3 was running 275 BHP and 330 lb-ft in summer 2003.
It's still running similar (say a nominal 270 BHP & 315 lb-ft) all on the standard clutch and haldex unit.
It's had 3 owners...all of whom drove it hard, road and track...and still it makes the numbers.

If you do a lot of full throttle standing starts, you'll fry your clutch...I didn't...and my clutch was fine. Still is, I believe.

 

[Ess_Three]

I'm confused now too as I want a remap soon. A revo sounds like its making the engine/turbo and other parts work harder, my mate has an APR by Awesome and has had no problems on his 20VT Leon, its been on the car for two years now IIRC

I agree that a big boost spike makes for a harder working engine.
more heat...more heatsoak if your ICs aren't up to it.

It'll give the tyres a harder time too...and the bushes.

Still, my old S3 has been making decent numbers for the last 5 years or so...and continues to do so. So if your engine is healthy and well maintained I see no reason to worry...especially as you retain the standard ECU's protection if things get out of hand.

 

[Tastyterrier]

Just to add to the debate, I just got my car custom coded today....and I'm loving it!!!

Seems v smooth, long power range and not peaky.

It was done by PSI Tuning in Stoke, it's worth going to see their custom jobs, including a caddy van with an S3 engine...nutters!

 

[jojo]

I'm guessing the graph posted is showing power at the wheels, Dave?
225 BHP ish?
Seems a tad high...maybe not...assuming 50 BHP ish lost through the tranny.

Lets say for the purposes of debate that the 225 BHP is at the wheels...so approx 275 @ crank.

Mine was making about the same - 275 @ crank.

so same outright power...but with a big torque spike...
As below;

Anyone got a 'smooth' graph?

Don't know about being smooth, but here's my laminated powerplot from Awesome's rollers, power@wheels

 

[Ess_Three]

A perfect example...
Power curves look similar - reasonably linear power delivery, dropping off above 5700 as the K04 struggles to move enough air above that.

Notice how much lower your torque is though.
You have a capped boost delivery, resulting in a reasonably flat torque curve from 2800 to 4500 ish.

Mine has a big boost spike, giving a massive torque peak at about 3500

...which if you take the curves as gospel (I wouldn't...the Awesone curve makes little sense torque wise...only 228 lb-ft out of a remapped S3?) which means my S3 has 100 lb-ft more than yours jojo (I can't see it somehow!)

Anyway...if mine was making 214 BHP ATW and jojos 207 BHP ATW(average...ish) but mine had 100 lb-ft more midrange...which would be the faster car?

I think it's easy to answer that...

You get the idea.

 

[jojo]

...which if you take the curves as gospel (I wouldn't...the Awesone curve makes little sense torque wise...only 228 lb-ft out of a remapped S3?) which means my S3 has 100 lb-ft more than yours jojo (I can't see it somehow!)

Anyway...if mine was making 214 BHP ATW and jojos 207 BHP ATW(average...ish) but mine had 100 lb-ft more midrange...which would be the faster car?

I think it's easy to answer that...

You get the idea.

Torque is @wheels also Glenn, they didn't have the right calculations to measure the power at the flywheel with the run down on the day.?!

228lb/ft of torque is almost stock figures, think mine made 210lb/ft of torque prior to the remap at AmD, peak was something like 267lb/ft.

 

[Ess_Three]

I think mine was 208 BHP and 199 lb-ft standard on the same dyno as it ended up at 275 BHP /332 lb-ft.

Anyway...
Isn't torque, torque?
Torque is the tirning force exerted on the rollers...power being torque against time?
So I wasn't aware that the torque varied...every dyno I've uded in the last 18 years has had only one torque measurement, but power at the wheels measured with power at the crank calculated - ideally from coastdown, but sometimes from a simple calculation/database figure which means precisely nothing if your car is set up differently from the standard car that was used for the losses 'guestimate'

Awesomes rollers produce some queer figures...
I've seen a basically standard Mk3 ABF engined golf produce 180 BHP on an Awesome plot...with 170+ ATW.
I want his gearbox!
Mine looses about 45-50 BHP through it's gearbox, diff (LSD), wide wheels and tyres and tyre scrub caused by suspension angles and tracking angles etc...

Something not quite right there...


To me, a turbocharged car being run without measuring the boost, is next to worthless.
You need to see air temperature, boost, losses as well as the torque/power made to get any meaningful data from it.

 

[DNA Tuning]

You have a capped boost delivery, resulting in a reasonably flat torque curve from 2800 to 4500 ish.

It's not capped as in it's not a limiter, it's down to what's requested and how

 

[Ess_Three]

Capped in the code, as you say.
Requesting and allowing less boost than the turbo can produce.

Call it what you will, the result is a smooth/flatter torque delivery with no torque spike.

 

[S3Steve]

i was guna have my car done soon now i'm rearly confused but does it mean that cc would be better on the life of say the clutch and haldex if its smoother and a revo map would alot harsher. cause i've just had a new clutch and flywheel done even with standard power it still smells but i've only done about 1500 miles on it so far.

The clutch life can vary from car to car (possibley due to how the original clutch was bedded in). Ive had my Jabba map for 2 years (aggresive map with high torque figure) and im still on the original clutch. The car has had a fair few trips to santa pod too which obviously works the clutch hard.

 

[S3ren]

does anyone no how long it takes for horrible smell to go away, and i've decided to go for a custom code remap now but guna get my lambo wheels first in 18" i'm thinkin this is the best option.