Induction Kit- K&N or Pipercross?

[azsaroye]

i just wanted to know which one is better for audi a3 1.8 sport?

 

[Ess_Three]

I doubt either one is any better than the standard airbox, and the standard airbox won't raise the risk of killing the MAF sensor.

All you'll get is more noise - no extra power - and if it's an open cone, worse running in traffic or on a hot day.

My advice: keep your money in yout pocket.

 

[james0808]

I think both will be slightly better than the standard airbox but you wont notice any difference apart from extra noise and you wont have to keep replacing it.

and the standard airbox won't raise the risk of killing the MAF sensor.

Neither will a cone filter.

and if it's an open cone, worse running in traffic or on a hot day.

Agree.

 

[Ess_Three]

I think both will be slightly better than the standard airbox but you wont notice any difference apart from extra noise and you wont have to keep replacing it.

Depends what you mean by 'better'
From a filtration point of view, standard is better than any foam or cotton type - when clean.

Although the makers will tell you otherwise.

Neither will a cone filter.

A cone filter can screw up a MAF, if the filter is heavily oiled...which some are....but so are some panel filters!
There is no conclusive proof that oiled filters 'kill' MAfs, but a coating of oil can change the electrical readings...so it does affect it to some degree.

A standard paper filter doesn't.


From a power gain point of view, you'll be lucky to get any gain. Maybe a couple of BHP from a decent panel filter and a modified airbox...and none of the hot running issues you get with a cone...so that would still be my route of choice.

You pays yer money and makes yer choice.

 

[james0808]

Depends what you mean by 'better'
From a filtration point of view, standard is better than any foam or cotton type - when clean.

Although the makers will tell you otherwise.




A cone filter can screw up a MAF, if the filter is heavily oiled...which some are....but so are some panel filters!
There is no conclusive proof that oiled filters 'kill' MAfs, but a coating of oil can change the electrical readings...so it does affect it to some degree.

A standard paper filter doesn't.


From a power gain point of view, you'll be lucky to get any gain. Maybe a couple of BHP from a decent panel filter and a modified airbox...and none of the hot running issues you get with a cone...so that would still be my route of choice.

You pays yer money and makes yer choice.

Better air flow than the standard airbox.
The route the air has to travel around the pipes and through the airbox before getting to the engine cant be better than straight through a pipe with hardly and restrictions and no sharp bends.

Ive been using oiled cone filters(some shielded and others away from the engine bay) for many years so none of the hot running issues and ive never had a problem with anything getting through the filter and damaging any part of any engine,so the filtration must be ok.

To get a coating of oil onto the maf the filter must be completely saturated with oil,and surely with the airflow the oil would be blown off the maf and into the engine.

Has anyone with a nacked maf ever took it off and actually seen a coating of filter oil on it,i know i havent and ive took loads out.

 

[simch]

Induction kits on 1.8T are absolute waste of money! If yours is a 1.8 without turbo I'd say dont bother either!

Mine runs 350hp on stock box and paper filter, and many run over 400 on it.

Spend your cash on some decent tyres or put toward a suspension kit is my advice! You will get far more peformance increase than you will ever with an induction kit...!>

 

[azsaroye]

thanx for the advice guys! im looking to get a new car soon neway probably in march when im 21. just thinkin whether to buy an s3 or 1.8T and just remapping it. any thoughts?

 

[james0808]

Induction kits on 1.8T are absolute waste of money! If yours is a 1.8 without turbo I'd say dont bother either!

Mine runs 350hp on stock box and paper filter, and many run over 400 on it.

Spend your cash on some decent tyres or put toward a suspension kit is my advice! You will get far more peformance increase than you will ever with an induction kit...!>

Do you still use all the standard pipes going to the airbox?

If all he wants is the induction noise its not a waste of money,plus he wont need to spend any money replacing it like you need to do with paper ones,yeah i know they are only cheap but after time it will add up.
I have had my golf for 7 years now,how much money would i have spent on paper filters,probably more than it cost for my K&N so i have saved money.
azsaroye you might want to look at upgrading the brakes also.

 

[Ess_Three]

Better air flow than the standard airbox.
The route the air has to travel around the pipes and through the airbox before getting to the engine cant be better than straight through a pipe with hardly and restrictions and no sharp bends.

Really?
You know this for sure?
Not in all cases...certainly not in the case of the S3, perhaps on a 1.6 or 1.8.

Even with more airflow, it doesn't mean more power. I've logged airflow on my S3 and more airflow past the MAF did NOT give more power...despite some claiming it would. This was independantly dynod by me, at my cost.

Anyway, on a NA engine, airspeed is more important. Go too big on the inlet tract and you loose airspeed and loose torque.

But it makes a 'great' noise...so who cares?

Ive been using oiled cone filters(some shielded and others away from the engine bay) for many years so none of the hot running issues and ive never had a problem with anything getting through the filter and damaging any part of any engine,so the filtration must be ok.

So have I...oiled cotton, oiled foam and stainless mesh...and each one of them I've then taken off as the Chavtastic noise got on my wick, and the amount of debris (dust or staniness particles mixed with oil vapour) in the inlet manifold / throttle body worried me...hard debris or stainless particles have obviously passed the filter...and they shouldn't.
That sort of stuff damages engines, of that there is NO doubt.

To get a coating of oil onto the maf the filter must be completely saturated with oil,and surely with the airflow the oil would be blown off the maf and into the engine.

And it is...
Have you looked in the inlet hose?
Or the TB?
Or the manifold?
OK...some can come from engine breathers...but the MAF carrier will usually have a film of oil on it.

Has anyone with a nacked maf ever took it off and actually seen a coating of filter oil on it,i know i havent and ive took loads out.

You don't have to see it...
If you understand how a MAF works, a slight film of condensed vapour or oil mist can affect the reading.


At the end of the day...people should fit what they feel comfortable with...

 

[46TheDoctor]

Ive had 2 cars rolling roaded at k&n in warrington, in the process fitting cone filters, both cars actually lost power!!! However using the standard airbox with a performance air filter increased torque ever so slightly. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON A CONE FILTER. The second time i had a car done it was my STI Type UK Impreza, the engineer told me that cone filters only give a bhp increase with turbocharged cars running upward of 350bhp.

 

[Ess_Three]

Ive had 2 cars rolling roaded at k&n in warrington, in the process fitting cone filters, both cars actually lost power!!! However using the standard airbox with a performance air filter increased torque ever so slightly. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON A CONE FILTER. The second time i had a car done it was my STI Type UK Impreza, the engineer told me that cone filters only give a bhp increase with turbocharged cars running upward of 350bhp.

That ties up with what I've found...
I have found gains of 2-3 BHP (repeatable from back to back swapping on the dyno) from modifying the airbox...combined with a K&N panel filter in some cases...and each time they have outperformed induction kits (and even CAI kits).
Also, a 1-2 BHP gain has been found from modifying the TB (very little I agree, but again repeatable from back to back swapping on the dyno) and once again this has proven to do more than an induction kit with a big cone filter.

Out on the road, back to back 'benchmarking' against another car, cars fitted with an open cone filter have been noticably slower after fitting the cone filter.

But they sound louder...so they must be better/faster though, eh?

 

[james0808]

When did i say anything about gaining power with a cone,i didnt.So why are you banging on about performance.

Less restrictions = better airlow,plain and simple,again nothing about power.

But they sound louder...so they must be better/faster though, eh?

Once again your talking complete **** about power gains.

At the end of the day...people should fit what they feel comfortable with...
I agree with you there.

 

[ChriS3]

When did i say anything about gaining power with a cone,i didnt.So why are you banging on about performance.

Less restrictions = better airlow,plain and simple,again nothing about power.

But they sound louder...so they must be better/faster though, eh?

Once again your talking complete **** about power gains.

At the end of the day...people should fit what they feel comfortable with...
I agree with you there.

Better airflow maybe, but the air that flows into a cone is hot from the engine bay, and therefore the better airflow with an induction kit results in less power. The airflow in the standard airbox isn't a restriction. And speaking as someone that's just replaced an oily MAF, I'd highly recommend you avoid any after aftermarket filter and stick to replacing the OEM paper filter every 10,000 miles. But if you're after the noise, go for a CAI and route the inlet pipe somewhere near the front of the engine bay.

 

[AwesomeSarah]

We have rolling road tested a car with a standard and a Pipercross panel filter
It gained 4bhp
I tried a Pipercross induction kit on my Fabia and it gained 7bhp
Sarah

 

[Ess_Three]

When did i say anything about gaining power with a cone,i didnt.So why are you banging on about performance.

Less restrictions = better airlow,plain and simple,again nothing about power.

Well lets see...
'Tuning' is normally about making improvements...but since you choose to cherry-pick, lets me point out the more important bit:

A cone filter in the engine bay will suck in hot air and make your car slower.
Is that plain enough?

Sort of De-tuning.
Or tuning for Chavtastic fools.

What point is more airflow if it doesn't do you any good?
Especially if you make that extra air hot...so that the engine redards the timing and you loose power.

Once again your talking complete **** about power gains.

It's been proven time and time again...my me and many others...
It's nothing mythical...hot air = less power.
Simple physics, I'm afraid.
Not ****. Fact.

But you can choose to ignore it if you like...the reality is, an open cone as fitted to most induction kits will loose you power when the engine is hot and the bonnet is shut.
And since we don't all drive round with a big fan blowing on the front of the car, and the bonnet open (like you see on some dyno days) the power losses are very real, i'm afraid.

 

[simch]

We have rolling road tested a car with a standard and a Pipercross panel filter
It gained 4bhp
I tried a Pipercross induction kit on my Fabia and it gained 7bhp
Sarah

Are they the same ones you sell......?

 

[james0808]

Well lets see...
'Tuning' is normally about making improvements...but since you choose to cherry-pick, lets me point out the more important bit:

A cone filter in the engine bay will suck in hot air and make your car slower.
Is that plain enough?

Sort of De-tuning.
Or tuning for Chavtastic fools.

What point is more airflow if it doesn't do you any good?
Especially if you make that extra air hot...so that the engine redards the timing and you loose power.




It's been proven time and time again...my me and many others...
It's nothing mythical...hot air = less power.
Simple physics, I'm afraid.
Not ****. Fact.

But you can choose to ignore it if you like...the reality is, an open cone as fitted to most induction kits will loose you power when the engine is hot and the bonnet is shut.
And since we don't all drive round with a big fan blowing on the front of the car, and the bonnet open (like you see on some dyno days) the power losses are very real, i'm afraid.

I agree with you that a cone filter stuck under the bonnet with no heat shield or a cold air feed will loose power and therefore be a waste of time,power wise and infact de-tune the engine.

'Tuning' is normally about making improvements...
True,but some people just like the noise so to them its an improvement.

Im not choosing to ignore any of your infinite wisdom as i have not got an open cone filter on any of my cars,never have,never will.

 

[azsaroye]

thank you for your replies...i think i will leave the induction kit and just spend money on buying H&R suspension touring cup kit. Would i need to buy anything else with the suspension kit? i heard people talking bout tie bars or bushes or something

 

[Ess_Three]

Since yours is FWD, you'll not need adjustable tie-bars.

Just fit the kit and get a full alignment done.