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  1. #1
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    Star Performance Testing Day – Pt9

    The factual bit:

    As many of you know, I spent many hours down at Star Performance two days ago…12 hours in fact (08:45-20:45) having a play, testing a few things, having a load of work done, trying out a few things etc.

    Firstly, thanks to Jim & Brian…12 hours and two meals later we were all knackered!
    Credit where it’s due…anyone looking for decent service, advice and standard of work could do a lot worse than giving them a shout.

    Secondly, none of this was free…labour rates, wheel alignment rates, dyno time, replacement parts…all paid for out of my pocket...I have the invoice for over Ł900 to prove it!!

    Thirdly, these are our (mine, Jim’s and Brian’s) observations based upon our findings. All testing carried out with conditions kept as close to previous conditions as possible etc…some will disagree violently, some will agree…that’s your prerogative.



    Finally...the bit that brings all the other suspension bits together...the set up!

    I find the S3 understeers badly wet or dry...there's too much roll and not enough grip.

    Fitting uprated dampers will have helped the appalling standard (worn) damping, and adding the ARBs will have helped prevent roll whilst bringing the back into play a bit...but there's still a lack of front end grip (that phrase will please AL B!)

    As discussed previously some time ago, the S3s have adjustable front ball joints which allow you to pull them outward and add negative camber. Fitting lwered springs also adds negative camber BTW!

    Anyway, previous to this playing about session I had pulled my balljoints out as far as they'll go and gained -.15 degrees negative one side and only -1.0 degrees the other...better but not ideal as not equal...and I didn't want to reduce one side down to -1.0.

    So, since the subframe had been off we had the opportunity to move it about a bit...I now have -1.3 degrees negative camber each side on the front.


    On the rear, when you lowrr an S2 you get too much negative camber...the use of the Forge Motorsport Adjustable Upper Arms mean you can adjust this back to standard, or whatever you want. we fitted the Forge arms and set the rear camber back to -1.0 degrees per side (standard)


    For rear toe - which is not adjustable - it sitting at toe out (can't remember the figures and I left the set up sheet down at Star! Doh!)
    But I'm happy with toe out at the rear...it aids turn in.


    The front toe should be set to slightly toe in (4 minutes toe in)...which is great for everyday driving...but a bit compromised for the 'press on' stuff...we set mine to slightly toe out...it tends to add a bit of front end bite. I think we used 5 minutes toe out per side.


    How does it drive?
    Bloody fantastically!!

    There is more grip at the front than I thought possible..it doesn't lean/roll on turn in like it used to...which takes some getting used to as it feels like it's going to start understeering...but it doesn't.

    Keep your foot in and you can feel the rear come into play. You turn in and the rear just follows - regardless of speed...it just seems to find a point at which the torque goes to the rear, loads the suspension up and catapults you out of the turn.
    No understeer, no oversteer, just pin sharp, precise turn in and a perfect line through the bend. I honestly never thought an S3 could feel this good to drive.

    It's totally predictable, unbelievably grippy and the feeling of confidence it provides for the driver I've never felt in this car before.

    I'm absolutely gobsmacked at how goos the chassis feels now...there's even a bit of feedback through the steering now!

    I'm sure Grant (Imola S3) will be able to testify as to the way the car corners now...it's transformed!


    This car may actually topple the Integra Type-R off top spot as the best drivers car I've owned... only time will tell.

    I'm a very happy man now...
    And since I've worn my keyboard out over the last few days, I'ff off to drive the damn thing...what's the best bait for Subarus nowadays anyway?


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  3. #2
    Grant's Avatar
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    Re: Star Performance Testing Day – Pt9

    I can confirm that Glen's car goes round corners like it's on rails! I've never been in a car that handles as well as Glen's S3.

    The speed that this man took corners last night almost made me soil myself! I will honestly admit... last night, Glen had me **** scared!

  4. #3
    RichA3Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Star Performance Testing Day – Pt9

    [ QUOTE ]
    Imola S3 said:
    I can confirm that Glen's car goes round corners like it's on rails! I've never been in a car that handles as well as Glen's S3.

    The speed that this man took corners last night almost made me soil myself! I will honestly admit... last night, Glen had me **** scared!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hahahaha fantastic! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif[/img]

  5. #4
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    Re: Star Performance Testing Day – Pt9

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    ...what's the best bait for Subarus nowadays anyway?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    Counterfeit RS3 badges i heard [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif[/img]

  6. #5
    mramage's Avatar
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    Re: Star Performance Testing Day – Pt9

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    what's the best bait for Subarus nowadays anyway?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Fighting talk from you? It must be good!

    Must add, most excellent reports. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif[/img] I was at Star on Saturday last week (new DV) and it was mentioned you were getting assorted work done, but was all hush hush [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angel.gif[/img]

    Trying to decide if/what to get done. Would need to be good value and not wreck the ride and/or tyres any more than normal. Don't really want it lowered, so considering dampers and maybe just the rear bar at 16mm. Will have a chat at the next meet [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif[/img]

  7. #6
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    Does this negatively affect the tyres in anyway (increased wear, hopefully fairly even, etc.)??

  8. #7
    4th Gear

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    With the geometry then yes this does cause the tyres to wear more quickly. If you push hard in the corners then they will wear fairly evenly, otherwise they will wear on the inside edges quicker. But it is so worth it.
    03 Ebony black S3, Dieselgeek short shift, its started..

  9. #8
    jojo's Avatar
    S3 Drift King!

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    February 21st, 2004
    Thread revival at it's best!

    Exactly what Jon said above, use the S3, and you won't notice the uneven tyre wear.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh!



  10. #9
    Biggied's Avatar
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    Wink

    Ok had my 8l S3 on the Beissbarth today. Still running stock shocks/springs but I've recently fitted new front top mounts & powerflex front wishbone bushes so thought I'd line er up. (the PF bushes do seem a bit to hard & seem to make the front feel a bit rough so I may go back to stock)

    Front now set to -1.25 degrees camber a side, -0.04 toe out a side, +7.40 degrees castor a side. Rear set to +0.08 degrees toe in & the camber -1.56 left/-1.38 right. Its a bit much negitive camber @ the rear for standard ride height but i don't have adjustable arms & the tyres wear ok so not bothered at the moment.

    The tyres I'm running are 235/40 18 @ 32psi front & 225/40 18 @ 36psi rear.
    In the dry the car grips & handles good but in the wet the wider tyres on the front grip more & I need to press a bit harder to produce front wheel slip & bring the rwd in to play, when the rear does take drive the thine/higher pressure tyres allow a bit of slide.

    I'm now wanting to try some skiny 15" all round in the wet for some 4 wheel drift. lol


    Ewan.

  11. #10
    Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    Never get them over the brakes.

    2003 Audi S3 + Go faster bits

  12. #11
    voorhees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MintyS3 View Post
    Never get them over the brakes.
    Ooooh minty,I saw Biggieds post and thought who is going to be the first to tell him that...bearing in mind he sounds like he knows a lot anyway.

  13. #12
    Biggied's Avatar
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    Ok I'll mabey try a set of 16'' with 205 tyres. I take it 15s have been tried before then?


    Ewan

  14. #13
    voorhees's Avatar
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    get four spare tyres and try them...should be fun.
    cannot think of anyone trying 15's or 16's

  15. #14
    jojo's Avatar
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    16's minimum over standard brakes, and you will still need the correct offset for the wheel spokes to clear the side of the calipers. A set of Mk4 Golf V6 4Motion 7 spoke 16's would be ideal, as the car has the same brakes, and I've tried them. car sits a lot lower though, and the wheel arches look stupid with the smaller tyres.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh!



  16. #15
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    what would i need to go with some ap coilovers will they do by the self or can i get owt to make handleing any better tar
    350bhp & 316ftlb BBT new k16 7+7 blade hybrid turbo, Welly cooler, jetex filter, relentless ported v3 manifold 3" downpipe & de-cat, liquid gauge, r32 rear arb, AGU ported and polished Head, 550cc injectors, kw v2 Coilovers, s3dave tie bars & heat sheild, milltek cat back, I.E forged rods, brembos, inline fuel pump, v3 badger 5 tip, devils own WMI kit, AGU pistons, rear grooved discs & brembo pads, ds2500 pads & EBC ultimax disc, stack boost gauge

  17. #16
    <tuffty/>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s3gazz View Post
    what would i need to go with some ap coilovers will they do by the self or can i get owt to make handleing any better tar
    Took me a while to work out what this actually was in english but I am assuming you are asking if you need anything else to go with your AP coil overs to improve handling?

    Uprated ARB's would be the next step and you have asked that question in Pt8 Anti Roll bars thread you posted in so have a look there

    <tuffty/>
    Silver 2001 AMK S3. Silver alcantara interior... now with added powarrrrrrrr, torques. VAGCOM + KII-USB. >> My build thread...

  18. #17
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Holy thread revival time

    I'm booked in at a race specialist tomorrow for a complete 4 wheel alignment and wondering what the best setup would be on the following:

    Standard shocks/dampers
    TT springs (Rumoured)
    S3dave rear tie bars - lower/bottom
    New track rods
    New front ball joints

    Complete SuperPro polybush kit with alignment correction. This kit includes eccentric castor correction bushes for the front lower arms and eccentric camber correction bushes which I have fitted to the upper arms only due to the s3dave tie bars on the bottom.

    Car will mainly be used for daily road use with occasional spirited driving and possibly some occasional track use in the future.

    Any help/advice is much appreciated but I will say that new springs/dampers aren't an option atm due to lack of funds.

    Many thanks, Shaun.

  19. #18
    Dani_B19's Avatar
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    Where you going for it doing shaun? Need mine doing.
    Driving the most secretive S3 on ASN

  20. #19
    ShaunS3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani_B19 View Post
    Where you going for it doing shaun? Need mine doing.
    Hepworth International in Brighouse.

  21. #20
    superkarl's Avatar
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    Daily driving, keep toe on the front and rear parallel.

    1 degree camber max at rear
    1.x at front.

    Depends how enthusiastically you drive really.

  22. #21
    Sam_'s Avatar
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    Doesn't having parellel toe help with tyre wear with added camber?

    I'm running around 2.5 at the front currently and tyres are wearing pretty evenly.
    Handling mods++. GTX30 soon-ish. Hiding parts from the mrs since 2011. Build thread

 

 

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