Chris NottEM Tuning
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  1. #1
    Maz
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    Question Suspension & Exhaust Research + Opinions Pls

    My car has been totally standard for the past few years of ownership and I have been itching to upgrade a few times but gather modding the S3 is a costly and long process unless you have the readies to buy everything you need in one go.

    To be fair I have been more than happy with My S in standard guise although I know there's a few of you that would probably disagree.

    Having read a number of posts and opinions re suspension setup I am contemplating the Bilstein H&R combo + a Supersprint zorst (twin 90 tailpipe)

    having been quoted 990 inc delivery for the following items I am very tempted!!!

    BE5-6035 / VE3-4708 - Bilstein B8 Front and Rears

    H-29438 H&R Springs

    SUP762604 -Supersprint Back Box

    SUP762616 - Supersprint Endpipe Kit Twin Round

    My first question is what do you think of the price?

    How much would it set me back to get it all fitted?

    Should I just save my cash and stop dreaming because I will only want a Remap and Brembos next... and the rest...

    On the other hand I do not plan on selling it so these mods will not be carried out just for the sake of it.


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  3. #2
    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    Don't you need to include adjustable rear tie bars to the mix? I believe these can add to the cost significantly (circa £250?). In with fitting you'll also need to budget for full wheel alignment.
    > S3 225 (03) - OEM+
    > 205 GTI (90) - Limited Edition Miami Blue with full leather - 1 of only 300 made
    > Clio v6 255 (05) - Lethal Weapon

    View: My S3 diary

  4. #3
    Maz
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    Yep, Im aware of all that, see what I mean. Main focus is on the prices for parts at this stage.


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  5. #4
    [Dave B]'s Avatar
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    Ok mate, i'm not sure how competitive the prices you've been quoted are. One thing's for certain, i'll be keeping an eye on this thread as i'm currently contemplating similar mods
    > S3 225 (03) - OEM+
    > 205 GTI (90) - Limited Edition Miami Blue with full leather - 1 of only 300 made
    > Clio v6 255 (05) - Lethal Weapon

    View: My S3 diary

  6. #5
    Aky
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    Mine so far:
    FSD - £350
    ARBs- £400 approx
    fitting £200 inc wheel alignment
    remap - £450
    Brembo's £500

    obviously no springs here but fitting will be the same . If you go more than 15mm then tie bars will be needed. If you want slightly stiffer but still some comfort I would recommend FSD's possibly on 20mm springs

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky_Junky
    One thing's for certain, i'll be keeping an eye on this thread as i'm currently contemplating similar mods
    Same here :D
    S3 Nogaro Blue - 2001 Facelift, 210bhp

  8. #7
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    If you want real gains...save yourself the cost of the exhaust as it'll ad nothing but better looks and a bit more noise.

    I'd sort the suspension...then add some better pads to the standard brakes at the very least.
    Having done the exhaust/cats before...I'd rather spend the cash on Brembos or a re-map.
    You'll get better gains from either of those.


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  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funky_Junky
    Ok mate, i'm not sure how competitive the prices you've been quoted are. One thing's for certain, i'll be keeping an eye on this thread as i'm currently contemplating similar mods
    Aren't we all thinking about this, me too!
    J


  10. #9
    Maz
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    thanks guys!

    ...update, ok, I have decided to ditch the zorst and will stick with sorting the suspension + rear tie bars and also upgrade the front brakes with Black Diamond grooved discs. Not sure which pads to get though, probably Ferodo DS2500 or Ferodo DS any thoughts? (is it worth upgrading the rear) i was thinking just getting some new pads for the rear?

    looking to order everything today!!!

    ... also just replaced my ****e Wanli tyres up fornt with F1 GSD3's and the grip difference is highly noticeable especially in corners! v-happy.


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  11. #10
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    good man, the exhaust will get you nowhere!!!

    I would recommend the black diamond discs and ferodo ds2500 combination highly!

    I drove Dave_Bayerns car with standard A3 288mm black diamonds and ds2500s, and they were incredible, really really good. noticably better in 288mm than standard 312mm S3 brakes.

    Im about to upgrade my A3 to 312mm black diamonds and ferodo ds2500 pads myself. i think it should be a great setup.

    For the rears, i think GSF do brembo max grooved discs at a very good price (£30 a pair in 232 S3 size!) and they are rated pretty highly. just add some standard pads to keep it all in good condition, and you should see a healthy increase in braking power.

    considering most people seem to quote around £500 for the super sprint back box, i think your quote on the shocks and springs must be very reasonable. if you're saving a packet by not getting the exhaust, then look into fitting anti roll bars too, these make a massive difference to the balance of the car, and dial out the understeer that shocks/springs cannot do.

    read Ess_Threes sticky threads for ideas on which ARB's to go for.

    If your having it all apart, you may as well do the lot at once and get all the bushes replaced too, that'll tighten up the whole car, if its done a few miles, it'll be well worthwhile.
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  12. #11
    Maz
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    Cheers Prawn for encouraging me to spend more

    I hear what you are saying about the arbs and bushes but my budget cant stretch that far at this stage and I dont want to get carried away with mods in order to fully appreciate the changes in stages. Just to recap the following has now been ordered:

    Bilstein B8 shocks
    H&R Springs
    Black Diamond Grooved Discs (front)
    Ferodo DS2500 Pads.

    all for, wait for it840, which is by far the best price I found including delivery!!!

    Couldnt decide on which adjustable rear tie bars to get - KW / Forge? Any suggestions? I also still need to get the Neuspeed arb kit as well so it looks like I wont be lowering her just yet.

    Brakes will be fitted next week for sure and resisting a remap is going to be hell but it will have to wait for another month or so where I will possibly remap and drop it at the same time.
    Last edited by Maz; 12th October 2007 at 20:15.


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  13. #12
    Maz
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    ...one week on and I have only received the disks and springs, annoying!!!!!

    Just curious to know if anyone else has got the H&R springs and if they are red like mine, I thought they would be black?


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  14. #13
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    can i just ask- on the gsf website i cant find the brembo max rear discs for £30 for the pair? i thought the rear discs are 256mm?!

    im comtemplating on upgrading with the parts you have bought but its a lengthy costly affair! i will either go down the route your going or keep it as it is and then maybe get a second hand new S3 and get a remap on it he he
    2002 225 S3, metallic black, REVO, 18" RSTT alloys, goodyear Eagle F1s, silver leather heated seats, tinted windows, H&R spacers, black diamond grooved discs & Ferrodo DS2500 pads, BOSE system, xenons, forge DV, samco TIP & upper boost hoses.

  15. #14
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Sorry guys, my mistake, reading that back, it was a typo, I meant £30 a pair in 232mm A3 size, S3 discs are of course 256mm, and vented.

    I have since been to GSF, and they do the brembo rears, but they are plain, not grooved.

    The A3 size were £30 a pair, I think the S3 size ones were about £48, but don’t quote me on that!

    Remember if you are a member on ed38 you get 10% off at GSF!
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    Prawns TFSI Turbo'd 1.8T Track Car

    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  16. #15
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    are the S3 discs brembo max too for £48!?

    MAz- keep us updated please about the before and after transformation of your car
    2002 225 S3, metallic black, REVO, 18" RSTT alloys, goodyear Eagle F1s, silver leather heated seats, tinted windows, H&R spacers, black diamond grooved discs & Ferrodo DS2500 pads, BOSE system, xenons, forge DV, samco TIP & upper boost hoses.

  17. #16
    Maz
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    ...after waiting a couple of weeks for the pads to arrive I'm getting them fitted along with the discs this weekend thanks to a top mate. As for the suspension upgrade, I’m really in a pickle whether to opt for the rear control arm or not due to various conflicting discussions with QST and Jabba not to mention the opinions on here.

    Also in two minds over the H&R springs... QST recommend their MTM -20 springs which are more comfortable than the H&Rs according to them with no need for rear control arms or alignment (if its fine already) but pricey in terms of fitting.

    Jabba great price on fitting and alignment although they recommend a modified OEM rear control arm.

    In terms of the H&R springs are those of you with them entirely happy with their characteristics, I gather comfort will be compromised but I don’t want a back breaker just for the sake of the car looking low. Has anyone fitted the MTM springs?

    The car is booked in with Jabba next week regardless but I would rather be absolutely sure about getting it right first time rather than fannying about back forth due to cost and time implications.

    Come on guys help me out.


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  18. #17
    Aky
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    The MTM's are expensive at £180+vat. but maybe worth it in the long run if you don't need tie bars. I'm thinking of getting a set of springs this week to compliment my FSD's but when you tot it all up maybe its cheaper to go for Coilovers so at least you can set the ride height perfectly so tie bars aren't required?? My 2p

  19. #18
    Prawn's Avatar
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    you guys seem to have totally missed the point of rear adjustable tie bars.

    Due to the S3 suspension design, ANY lowering of the car will induce negative camber on the back wheels.

    So, be it through lowering springs, or coilovers, if the car goes below standard ride height, it WILL need adjustable rear tie bars.

    MTN are just claiming their springs dont need tie bars because the 20mm lowering will make nowhere near as much difference to the camber as a set of 40mm springs for example!

    the simple fact is, if it is lowered, AT ALL. you need tie bars.

    Even the GMBH factory 10mm lowered option cars reportedly had tyre wear issues due to excessive neg camber at the back.
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    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  20. #19
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    Ive Eibach springs on my S3. Not sure what they are supposed to lower but you definitely will need adjustable rear bars. Even a mate of mine with no clue about cars asked why my rear wheels were pointing in at the top.

    I agree with Ess's comment about suspension and brakes. Even tough im dying to get a remap. Since I fitted the suspension Im having loads more fun with the car. Brembo's next for me I think. Then a remap, exhaust, FMIC.......
    2007 Ibis white S3.

  21. #20
    Aky
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    I understand but my FSD's have raised the car by at least 10mm therefore the -20mm springs should pretty much even the difference out hence not needing tie bars.

  22. #21
    Prawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn
    the simple fact is, if it is lowered, AT ALL. you need tie bars.

    Even the GMBH factory 10mm lowered option cars reportedly had tyre wear issues due to excessive neg camber at the back.
    ANY lowering.

    you will need tie bars.

    also, unless the spring platform is incorrectly designed, and sits further up the shock leg than the standard units, the FSD's CANNOT raise the ride height at all, if you play with a damper off the car, it has no neutral point, just a set resistance to travel. once its travelled, it stays there. so using the same springs, with the same spring platform location, the ride height cannot change.

    however, if you changed the bushes/top mounts when you fitted the FSD's, that's probably whats made you think its 'higher'

    the bushes on the front of my A3 were completely destroyed, all of them, and when i changed then all, the ride height at the front actually came up 18mm (measured!) so the car currently looks stupid. its settled down a bit after 1000 miles, but still sits around 10mm higher than it did on dead bushes.

    My guess is that your car is NOW standard ride height again.

    either way, you need tie bars
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    But I know nothing so ignore me.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prawn
    Sorry guys, my mistake, reading that back, it was a typo, I meant 30 a pair in 232mm A3 size, S3 discs are of course 256mm, and vented.
    And what we need to put the S3 rear discs on a A3 ?
    Besides the discs of course

  24. #23
    Maz
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    Ok, brakes are now on and I must say I am well happy with the upgrade. Took it slow yesterday for the majority of the day although I did get the near side smoking after some swift manoeuvres and a sudden stop, lol.

    They seem to have got even better over night as the pedal feel is much better today and they slowed me down pretty sharpish after a spaz in a canoe like Scorpio decided to pull out on me...

    I would never have opted for the Black Diamonds and Ferodos had I not read a number of threads regarding their performance, so thanks for the heads up. Ideally I would have liked Brembos but couldn’t justify the price and missed out on set of second hand ones recently.

    Can’t wait for the suspension upgrade (including rear tie bars) to take shape this week too so once that’s sorted it’s only a matter of time before I opt for arbs / alloys / remap.


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  25. #24
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    What's the bite from cold like?

  26. #25
    Maz
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    V-good and even better once warmed up.


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  27. #26
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    Tempting as the standard brakes are pants

    where did you get them from?

    How much if you don't mind me asking?
    Last edited by j4jon; 11th November 2007 at 18:23.

  28. #27
    Maz
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    www.motorsportworld.co.uk. They are very competitive with their pricing.

    Spk to Gordon although they all seem to be v-helpful.

    I got a slight discount off the RRP because I ordered shocks and springs too.


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  29. #28
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    Do you have the Ferodo DS or DS2500 pads?

  30. #29
    Maz
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    The latter mate, you have to ask for them specifically as they are not listed on the website for an S3.


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  31. #30
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    Thanks for that, I shall have to give them a ring.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maz
    The latter mate, you have to ask for them specifically as they are not listed on the website for an S3.
    Were they more or less than what the DS's are up for?


    Cheers,

    ICE

  33. #32
    Maz
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    they are about £25 more than the DS but I got them for around £105 because of the discount applied to my total order.


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