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  1. #1
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    S3 or Mk2 Golf Gti?

    Just to shout out about the fact that my Mk2 Gti is still going strong as just passed MOT yesterday with only a number plate light a CV boot needing to be replaced. 228k miles on the clock and 45 notes later and it lives legally for another year! I love this bloody car - especially after drving it yesterday. What a hoot! Who needs Quattro, ESP, ABS...

    Anyways I do have to be serious about this - should I keep the S3 and Golf or do I sell the Golf? What you guys reckon?

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  3. #2
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Depends, is the Golf a 3 door and a 16v?
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  4. #3
    fingermouse's Avatar
    thats me

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    I own a S3 and I wouldn`t own a mk2 golf they just dont do it for me. So for me sell the golf lol.
    red to red black to black blue to bits

  5. #4
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Just over 1000Kg and 180-190Bhp from a decent Mk2 16v they are VERY capable cars and a lot more fun to drive than their modern counterparts.
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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    Just over 1000Kg and 180-190Bhp from a decent Mk2 16v they are VERY capable cars and a lot more fun to drive than their modern counterparts.
    eh? i assume that you talking about a tuned 16V?


  7. #6
    buckas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingermouse
    I own a S3 and I wouldn`t own a mk2 golf they just dont do it for me. So for me sell the golf lol.
    same here

  8. #7
    S3IZZO
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    Mk2 Golf with a S3 engine tbh

  9. #8
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    No its the 8v 3 door. IMO much better than a 16 valver. It handles great, goes like stink and has no electrical gadgetry between me and the wheels (cept for the ECU and injection of course). The S3 is quick and handles amazingly well but its a bit tame and predictable - I know I am in a safe pair of hands when driving that car. The Golf is raw and relativley unforgiving - I like to have a fight on my hands. I really am torn. Plus, its great on petrol and means I can give the S3 a rest by alternating betwen the two. I think i just answered my own question...

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3IZZO
    Mk2 Golf with a S3 engine tbh
    nah, you dont want all that unreliable electrical management crap in there!!

    A turbo fitted to a nice old reliable mechanical injection factory 1.9 oettinger 16v, preferably in a synchro chassis. That'd do me.


  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by madvw
    eh? i assume that you talking about a tuned 16V?
    Yeah, they are 140Bhp standard so its as easy as easy to push 180 Bhp from them with very little work.

    Sticking 1.8T engines in the Mk2 chassis is pretty much old hat these days, the new 'in thing' is R32 engines, so a 24v VR6.

    Thats my next intended dedicated track car, if the missus decides to keep the BMW on the road anyway.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  12. #11
    mk1chopper's Avatar
    Missing the S3

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    sell the mk2, buy a mk1 drop a 2.0 16v abf unit from the mk3 and stick it on twin webbers, lighter than the mk2, and better handling, and better looking! Then keep the S3 for your daily driver.

  13. #12
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    +1 on the above :-)
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  14. #13
    6th Gear

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    Quote Originally Posted by mk1chopper
    sell the mk2, buy a mk1 drop a 2.0 16v abf unit from the mk3 and stick it on twin webbers, lighter than the mk2, and better handling, and better looking! Then keep the S3 for your daily driver.
    thats moving the goalposts!!


  15. #14
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    I have a 2l 8v rally spec motor in a 4 door 1991 mk2, 178k miles, 45 k on the motor, 150hp and its great fun to drive, g60 brakes, konis, roll bars etc, I ran it recently for a month as my only car and it just was so much of a laugh!

    Was gunna sell it but just canno bringg myslef too! Owned it 8 years!

  16. #15
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    You should sell it........... to me :-)

    Remembering that its worth nowt as its a cacky 4/5 door.
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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    Sticking 1.8T engines in the Mk2 chassis is pretty much old hat these days, the new 'in thing' is R32 engines, so a 24v VR6.
    I'd say the new in thing are the PD diesel engines and the FSI engines tbh!

    I'd keep both cars as the mkII doesn't cost anything to maintain and it's not going to make you rich by selling it....just keep it ready for the sunny days and the country lanes!

  18. #17
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Not seen anyone putting an FSI in a Mk2 yet. Not in the UK anyway, few on Vortex.
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  19. #18
    mk1chopper's Avatar
    Missing the S3

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    I think a mk2 syncro running a 944 engine would be interesting, turbo and rear wheel drive

  20. #19
    jojo's Avatar
    S3 Drift King!

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    I have my S3 and a Mk2 16V as a runabout... I've got to admit that as much as I enjoy the S3 on my weekends and days off, the Mk2 is more fun to drive ... sure it doesn't have the power or traction, but it at least has an engine note and when you go pass 5k revs, the feeling is just better than a push in the back of S3 torque! Only downer is lack of climate control and creature comforts of the S3, so overall the S3 is a nicer car to own, but I won't be seeling the valver yet!



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  21. #20
    hud at ye bam

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    I'd rather have a Rallye
    [/sarcasm]

  22. #21
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    Had a Mk2 16V in Monza blau with a GTi Engineering RE2000 16V motor as my daily driver until recently.
    Broke my heart to let it go after 12 years and 170,000 miles. But you have to move into the nineties sooner or later......

    Replaced it with a minty one owner 52 plate Goodwood green S3 with 13,000 miles on the clock.
    Nice, but feels like an owd fella's car after the valver on Konis.

    My advice, keep the Golf if you have the space. Pop in a 2 litre 16V, and enjoy.

  23. #22
    jcs356's Avatar
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    Keep them both.
    Jason
    2001 Nogaro S3 (daily driver)

    1958 replica Porsche 356 Speedster (summer posing)
    1997 Seat Cordoba SX 16v (track day toy) replacing (t)rusty 1994 Seat Ibiza GTi RIP

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    Yeah, they are 140Bhp standard so its as easy as easy to push 180 Bhp from them with very little work.
    .
    How and what little work is needed to push these to 180?

    [Michael_Howard]
    Is it safe
    [/Michael_Howard]

    seriously?

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChriS3
    I'd rather have a Rallye
    ugh, man they're horrible, what were they thinking with those front and rear wings?

    I was looking for a G60 at one point, but there were only something like 80 RHD ones ever made. Chances of finding a genuine edition one RHD G60 and not a ****ty conversion is next to zero.


  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaSarthe&Back
    How and what little work is needed to push these to 180?

    [Michael_Howard]
    Is it safe
    [/Michael_Howard]

    seriously?
    Yeah, even just a 2.0L bottom end will get you very close, but loads of people are doing it, its rare to see an enthusiast owned 16v without at least 175Bhp these days.

    Check ClubGTI or VW Vortex...
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  27. #26
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    Yep, the masses have spoken and I am keeping her. Just insurance to srt out now - any ideas? I got a quote for &#163;150 based on 3000 miles a year. Not really enough.

    2.0l bottom end with a PB head on it makes the car go very very nicely, keeps it dead reliable and is a straight drop in job - no worries.

  28. #27
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Brentacre have always been VERY good for VW's and Audi's.
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  29. #28
    1st Gear

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    have any contact details?

  30. #29
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Tel: 01792 650933
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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    Yeah, even just a 2.0L bottom end will get you very close, but loads of people are doing it, its rare to see an enthusiast owned 16v without at least 175Bhp these days.
    I have a well tweaked Mk3 16v Anniversary and I can't bring myself to part with it..
    Apart from it being one of only 150 16v Anniversary's, it's making 190ish BHP, low ratio LSD 'box, Koni coilovers, Eibach ARBs, big brakes etc...
    It's raw, noisy, bumpy etc...but despite having just got a Fabia vRS to run about in...I just can't bring myself to get rid of the Mk3...which was always my favourite Golf shape....and the fact that I have made many one-off parts for it and spent 1000s of hours on it probably has a bearing too.


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  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    Sticking 1.8T engines in the Mk2 chassis is pretty much old hat these days, the new 'in thing' is R32 engines, so a 24v VR6.

    Thats my next intended dedicated track car, if the missus decides to keep the BMW on the road anyway.
    I can't understand anyone sticking that damn great V6 lump into a Mk2 if they want it to corner...

    Hell, it's bad enough in a Mk4...or Mk3...
    But all that weight, high up, in a Mk2?
    No thanks...a well set up 2.0 16v will murder it through the bends as it won't understeer like the V6 engined lump will..

    I was building a high spec VR6 12v for my Mk3...but gave up and sold the lot as I couldn't get the Mk3 to handle with the V6 lump in...you have no chance in a Mk2.


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  33. #32
    M44 DUB's Avatar
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    Keep them both!! An i agree 8v RULE. I so want another one as a daily driver
    NEW PLATE............WRONG CAR.............

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three
    I was building a high spec VR6 12v for my Mk3...but gave up and sold the lot as I couldn't get the Mk3 to handle with the V6 lump in...you have no chance in a Mk2.
    Theres a large amount of people, people who use these machines on track week in, week out, who would disagree with you on that apsect.
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  35. #34
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    Theres a large amount of people, people who use these machines on track week in, week out, who would disagree with you on that apsect.
    And there are even more using tuned 16vs that consistantly lap far quicker...

    At the local hillclimbs, sprints and trackdays the 16v engined cars are WAY faster then the nose heavy V6 engined cars...Mk2 and Mk3.

    You can't get away from the extra weight carried forward of the drive line and high up...more understeer, harder to brake...and slower round a track.

    The V6 is a great engine...but the work involved in getting it to handle like a lighter 2.0 16v is hard and in some cases near impossible. They sound great...but unfortunately provide near terminal understeer compared to the smaller, lighter engined 16vs with not much less power.


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  36. #35
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    I've not taken part in any hillclimbs or sprints, but we evidentally go to different track days!!
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  37. #36
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    I obviously go to ones where the tracks have corners...


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  38. #37
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    GVK (Gary) is one of the most frequent visitors out of the larger VW crowd and I've seen him at all major UK tracks, and he is currrently quite a bit faster in his VR6 than he was in the 16v.

    Same with another guy I know who has a VR6 Jetta, faster than when he had his 1.8 16v Jetta.

    But then I move in VW circles and probably see a lot more than you do, so see a wider range of differing VW cars/engines being used on track.
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  39. #38
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    GVK (Gary) is one of the most frequent visitors out of the larger VW crowd and I've seen him at all major UK tracks, and he is currrently quite a bit faster in his VR6 than he was in the 16v.
    I'm surprised...I know Gary and his 16v was quick...


    Same with another guy I know who has a VR6 Jetta, faster than when he had his 1.8 16v Jetta.
    The Jetta/Vento has always been a different story...stiffer shell and heavier at the back so they've always handled better in V6 form than a Golf...


    But then I move in VW circles and probably see a lot more than you do, so see a wider range of differing VW cars/engines being used on track.
    I don't wish to sound bolshy, but I doubt it...

    I've been 'into' VWs for well over 10 years..attending shows (GTI International for example) all that time, owned / modified 2 GTI Golfs, A Lupo GTI, A Corrado VR6, an Ibiza Cupra 16v and a Fabia vRS...as well as helped in many engine swaps into VWs.
    The S3, Integra Type-R and 911 are only diversions...I've always remained a VW owner along the way.

    I've been doing trackdays since 1992 and taking part/marshalling/attending hillclimbs/sprints since about the same time and on the twisty tracks I'm normally at, I've yet to see a Mk2 Golf with a VR6 fitted that outhandles a similar car with a lighter 16v fitted.

    It probably depends a lot on the track...but in my mind, fitting a V6 is adding handling problems you can do without.


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  40. #39
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three
    I don't wish to sound bolshy, but I doubt it...
    You only say thing when you KNOW its going to sound bolshy ;-)

    Yeah, Gary is considerably faster, and I can introduce you to someone almost as quick with a 150PD engine and 6 speed box in a Mk2 also.

    Perhaps if you look into current advancements with the VW motorsport and track day scene then you'd see a lot of VR6 conversions, although these days they tend to be the 24v R32 as opposed to the 12v VR6, and for good reason, they handle great with the right work done.

    Lets take the back seats out the Mk2 and whack that 911 engine, go ooooooon, you know you want to!
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  41. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by M44 DUB
    Keep them both!! An i agree 8v RULE. I so want another one as a daily driver
    Yeah loving the 8 valvers. Tried that insuarance company and, cos my NCB is being used on the S3, gave me a quote of 360 for the year 3rd party. Starting to make it seem unreasonable to own 2 cars again

 

 
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