JMB RetrofitsAH Fabrications
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  1. #1
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    one thing after another!

    Ed from aps called me saying there is a few problem with the car!
    1. The knocking that i thought was a clutch release bearing, turns out to be a fly wheel on it's way out!
    2. One of my rear springs has snapped, and rusted up, been snapped for a while!
    So it means new fly wheel, and springs, was thinking about some decent springs anyway, he suggested koni, what do you guys think? is there a better flywheel i should use etc?

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  3. #2
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    I fitted a Helix flywheel and uprated clutch to my mates S3, its a quality piece of kit and they do lots of variations of plate and cover to suit different power cars. We fitted an organic sprung plate and uprated cover capable of handling 360BHP if I remember right. Its a lot lighter than the standard setup which is always a good thing.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
    Sold - 2002 S3

  4. #3
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    i see you have springs on yours, without spending over £400 is there any springs / dampers i could change seeing as i have to change the broken spring anyway? i just want something that makes it handle! Can you recommend anything? And yes a lighter flywheel would be good!!

  5. #4
    s3shabs's Avatar
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    Go for a decent set of coilovers mate, I have a set of koni's on mine.
    I think coilovers will be ideal for you, especially with the conversion your getting done
    Its always a bonus to be able to fine tune the suspension/ride etc for maximum results.

  6. #5
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    also do i need to change the dampers or can i just change the springs? would that make it handle better?

  7. #6
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    what are coil overs, could you explain them to me a little and how much £ would i be looking? dont really wana spend over £400 - £500 but ive gotta repalce the spring and want it to hold the road instead of going straight on!!

  8. #7
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    I'm running H&R springs ( about £150 if i remember right) on std dampers at the minute mate and it handles quite well, although i do plan on upgrading to bilstien dampers in the near future to improve the handling further.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
    Sold - 2002 S3

  9. #8
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    just doing that would you say it's a big difference over standard? ie handling?

  10. #9
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    I have KW variant 1 Coilovers on my S3, have no complaints with them. Although I have'nt driven any other S3's standard or modded so have nothing to compare them against. But to me they seem good and are only £560 from AMD at the moment.

  11. #10
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    i find when i turn it goes in then understeers major, would coil overs get rid of this or would just springs do that?

  12. #11
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    I think your best bet to reduce the understeering of the S3 is to fit a uprated Haldex controller.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
    Sold - 2002 S3

  13. #12
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    yeah did wana do that, anyone got one for sale?!! would that be better than changing to expensive springs for now?

  14. #13
    Aky
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    I just hope you budgeted for all the things you will need to do along with the BT conversion

  15. #14
    hud at ye bam

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    Quote Originally Posted by edward_harris
    yeah did wana do that, anyone got one for sale?!! would that be better than changing to expensive springs for now?
    Shocks and springs, and a re-alignment would be the best overall solution. It's the basis of a good handling car.

    Coilovers allow you to adjust the height as the thinner reservoir is threaded allowing the spring platform to move up or down. It terms of performance I wouldn't say they're any better than a good shock/spring combo. And once the height is set, you probably won't move them.
    [/sarcasm]

  16. #15
    hud at ye bam

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    Poly bushes, ARB's and adjustable rear tie-bars help a lot too
    [/sarcasm]

  17. #16
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    ok so say i just go for some springs and shocks, what would be best, and how much would that be around?!!

  18. #17
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Bilstien B8's and H&R springs
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
    Sold - 2002 S3

  19. #18
    hud at ye bam

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    Bilstein B8's will be about £550. H&R springs should be about £175.
    [/sarcasm]

  20. #19
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    why would i need shocks? couldn't i just change the springs, surly the shocks dont make a big difference do they? i thought they just give it a firmer ride, + didn't do much in the corners, thought that was down to the spring?!

  21. #20
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChriS3
    Bilstein B8's will be about 550. H&R springs should be about 175.
    I paid 150 delivered for my H&R springs.
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
    Sold - 2002 S3

  22. #21
    scib4's Avatar
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    If i fit springs do i need to fit adjustable rear tie-bars or could i fit them at a later date?

  23. #22
    S3Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edward_harris
    why would i need shocks? couldn't i just change the springs, surly the shocks dont make a big difference do they? i thought they just give it a firmer ride, + didn't do much in the corners, thought that was down to the spring?!
    The dampers control the springs mate, if use old worn out dampers with stiff new springs you will end up with a twitchy ride as the dampers wont be able to control the oscilation of the springs.

    if I were you mate, spending big money on a big turbo conversion i wouldn't skimp on the suspension and brakes. I would be buying uprated dampers, springs and arb's. And a big brake kit (probably Brembo GT)
    2007 A3 TDI 170 S Line
    Sold - 2002 S3

  24. #23
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    lol, i dont intend to, brembos are next but it's all getting v.expensive!, what are arb's? and what do they do? sorry not sure about all this technical stuff! so if i get some H&R springs + Bilstein shocks this should make a good set up, well a noticeable difference than standard?

  25. #24
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    What worries me, is that you are paying near enough 5K for a big turbo, yet you have no idea what coilovers or ARB's are.

    Now, if we werent talking about APS, whom are a proper outfit, how would you ever know your 5K was buying you proper stuff, as opposed to you being ripped off.

    Now me personally, If I was gonna spend a large amount of money, I'd make damn sure I'd done my homework before parting with any cash.

    Anyway, onto the question, ARB's are Anti roll bars, the idea is to replace the standard ones with thicker versions, as their purpose is to balance the car and adjust the spring rate of your car, in very basic terms, the car will grip better on the turn in and make it so that you can take corners faster.

    On a more complicated note, you can adjust the stiffness of the ARB's and use differently sprung ARB's to adjust the handling geometry of your car.


    I literally this week bought ARB's, and I bought Eibach as they are highly reccomended by the people on UK MkIV's.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Bayern
    What worries me, is that you are paying near enough 5K for a big turbo, yet you have no idea what coilovers or ARB's are.
    Well said.
    Jason
    2001 Nogaro S3 (daily driver)

    1958 replica Porsche 356 Speedster (summer posing)
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  27. #26
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    I agree with the above. Spending all that money (which is of course your hard earned cash) on the conversion and not really doing your homework for the overall handling of the car .

    I have to thank many people on this forum that have supplied excellent information and knowledge that I have digested and learnt from.

    It does pay to research first.

    Just my opinion. Cheers

  28. #27
    DPM
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    I'd go for H&R springs and i'd highly reccomend adjustable rear tie bars when lowering the S3!
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  29. #28
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    it's all very well saying that guys, but i do like acceleration rather than going round corners fast, where can you do that anyway on our roads? And i do no allot about turbos etc, I'm just no so clued up on suspension etc, anyway what would be the point changing brakes suspension etc before getting a new turbo, as a mapped s3 is gutless, i don't care what anyone says! They are NOT fast at all! and if you think they are you haven't been in a proper car, i doubt mine will be all that quick when i get it back, but what car can you get smiler to a s3 with that much power before you say you should have brought a skyline! Ive done allot of research on aps, who did used to AMD really and i no the equipment they are using + it's all under warranty!

  30. #29
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    So you'll be happy with all those extra horses and going a damn sight quicker but no guarantee of stopping? I damn well wouldn't

    IMO, it's better to know that you can slow down before that hairpin you're hurtling towards, or at least be reassured you can carry a bit more speed into it and still come out the other side than worry about how quick you get there!
    Justin

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    A4 (B5) SE with a few slight amendments here and there (sold)

  31. #30
    Aky
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    Quote Originally Posted by edward_harris
    The knocking that i thought was a clutch release bearing, turns out to be a fly wheel on it's way out!
    You'll have to change the clutch as the standard one will not handle the extra power so you might aswell change the flywheel at the same time.

    How much have you been quoted? what make?

  32. #31
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joost
    So you'll be happy with all those extra horses and going a damn sight quicker but no guarantee of stopping? I damn well wouldn't

    IMO, it's better to know that you can slow down before that hairpin you're hurtling towards, or at least be reassured you can carry a bit more speed into it and still come out the other side than worry about how quick you get there!
    Lol i dont go mental round corners anyway, to worried about wrecking my wheels! and my brakes with ebc red stuff all round stops me fine! dont intend to do 160mph just yet! brakes are only as good as the tyres anyway! and my abs always comes in so bigger brakes wont do alot!

  33. #32
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aky
    You'll have to change the clutch as the standard one will not handle the extra power so you might aswell change the flywheel at the same time.

    How much have you been quoted? what make?
    Not sure on make or price yet, they were ment to phone me today, so i should find out tomorrow!

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by edward_harris
    it's all very well saying that guys, but i do like acceleration rather than going round corners fast, where can you do that anyway on our roads?
    You can do that anywhere...and at more license friendly spereds than trying to deploy 350BHP on standard suspension...suspension which in my view is verging on dangerous when new...and not fit for a 210BHP S3, never mind a 350BHP car....heaven knows how bad it'll be on yours with a few miles under it's under-damped belt.


    And i do no allot about turbos etc, I'm just no so clued up on suspension etc, anyway what would be the point changing brakes suspension etc before getting a new turbo, as a mapped s3 is gutless, i don't care what anyone says! They are NOT fast at all! and if you think they are you haven't been in a proper car,
    Do you realise you've just made yourself look a bit of a tit?

    A well set up mapped S3 will destoy a 350BHP S3 on standard brakes and suspension on every road bar a straight dual carridgeway/motorway.

    You've just not been in a well set up S3.
    Nor, I suggest, a well mapped S3....or you wouldn't make ill informed, ignorant comments like that.

    Since I now own what I consider to be a 'proper car' and having changed from a well set up, mapped S3, I can tell you that on challenging back roads the S3 would leave me for dead up to 60-70MPH.
    Perfectly legal...

    So you really haven't got a clue what you are talking about...

    A 350 BHP S3 on standard dampers and brakes is a frightening thought...a car that will accelerate quickly (although not as quick as most think 350BHP will provide), but not corner, or stop.
    Bravo...


    i doubt mine will be all that quick when i get it back, but what car can you get smiler to a s3 with that much power before you say you should have brought a skyline! Ive done allot of research on aps, who did used to AMD really and i no the equipment they are using + it's all under warranty!
    Oh, it'll be quick...
    But on standard dampers and brakes, it'll be a death trap.


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    The views expressed on Audi-Sport.net are the personal views of its contributors (including me), and not that of the Website or the Moderator/Administration team.

  35. #34
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aky
    You'll have to change the clutch as the standard one will not handle the extra power so you might aswell change the flywheel at the same time.
    Not always...
    It's torque and grip that kills clutches...my standard clutch was fine at 320 lb-ft but was not capable of more that one full boost launch at 330+ lb-ft without overheating.

    Torque chews clutches...once the clutch is engaged it's unlikely 350BHP will un-seat it, in all honesty....depending on the torque produced...but most big turbo S3s seem to make 280-300 lb-ft of torque, so it should be fine, I'd have thought.


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  36. #35
    DPM
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  37. #36
    Slipping at 3.5Krpm

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    Quote Originally Posted by edward_harris
    Lol i dont go mental round corners anyway, to worried about wrecking my wheels! and my brakes with ebc red stuff all round stops me fine! dont intend to do 160mph just yet! brakes are only as good as the tyres anyway! and my abs always comes in so bigger brakes wont do alot!
    I was going to make a comment pointing out that EBC Red stuff takes AGES to properly bite even on a track, nevermind on a road, but then I remembered you intend to have 350Bhp and standard brakes, so they'll get plenty hot!!

    I personally have uprated disc/pads (EBC Green & Red) and on my car which is WAY less than 350Bhp find the stopping power drastically needs to be improved.

    I don't think anyone here is being nasty, its just a bit nonsensical to be spending that kind of money without any idea exactly what you are buying into.

    You NEED to improve your suspension with dampers/springs/tie bars and ARB's.

    You NEED to upgrade your brakes.

    Otherwise I'll be buying the parts from your S3 that WILL end up in a field somwhere.
    <Insert meaningless geeky specs here>

  38. #37
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    you talk about having bigger brakes, but why have bigger brakes when ill still be doing 60 in a standard s3 over a 350bhp s3? I'm still only doing 60, the only advantage of better brakes is they dont fade. yeah brakes is on my list but I'm saying i want some speed first, I'm not doing any track days etc, they only place ill go is Santa pod for the drag strip, and i dont think better brakes will improve any times! sure if i had the money id do the lot but then I'm looking at an extra &#163;2000 + just for brakes and suspension!

  39. #38
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    i will b e doing the brakes etc but it's all money, and all i really do is a quick burst up the road! most of the time i drive normally. i like to have the power if i need it, ie over taking, or some chav at the lights, but also with the comfort of an s3! i cant see the advantage of bigger brakes unless your really hard on them ie track use or going crazy on the road, as the only time i go fast is on a clear straight, so 95% of the time they will be doing normall braking! i will get some just when i get some &#163; together again!

  40. #39
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    So you are saying that you are spending &#163;5k on the engine work and you are never going to exceed the speed limit on any given road? The only time you won't be driving Miss Daisy and put those those extra 125horses to good use is down the strip?

    I agree with the general consensus that with that much power you'll find it very difficult to 'drive Miss Daisy' all the time and before you know it you will end up driving too fast (in a car with that power, it will only take a second) and in a situation where the handling deficiencies of the standard car means that you can't keep it pointing where you want to, but you're lack of adequate brakes means you can't slow yourself down either.
    Jason
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    1958 replica Porsche 356 Speedster (summer posing)
    1997 Seat Cordoba SX 16v (track day toy) replacing (t)rusty 1994 Seat Ibiza GTi RIP

  41. #40
    edward_harris's Avatar
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    oh i will use the power but Ive used the power in my mapped s3 and i wont be going an faster than i went in that, ill just get to that speed quicker! i dont think its so much the brakes are crap, but it's more down to tyres, my abs always cuts in, so any brakes cant do much more than mine are doing now

 

 
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