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Thread: Cambelt gone...

  1. #1
    rockminster's Avatar
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    Angry Cambelt gone...

    Two days ago the cambelt went on my S3, at 73k.

    The car hasn't been re-mapped and I've had no modifications done to any part of the engine.

    I'm being quoted nearly 1,700 to fix this (replace bent valves in Cyl 3 and replace belt etc) which I am understandably annoyed about because the part should not have failed in the first place.

    The service book says the belt should be replaced at 120,000 and I've not had any advice from Audi to the contrary!!!

    I'm waiting to hear back from Audi UK about their contribution but wanted to hear if anyone has any experience of something similar and what Audi did for them, also any guidance on reducing this cost would be appreciated.

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  3. #2
    Herby1's Avatar
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    ahh sorry to hear that bud!....hope you get it sorted!!.

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    120,000 are you sure it was supposed to be changed then??


    Jason
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    120, 000 sounds like a lotta miles for a cam belt change, esp on a S3. i normally change them around 70-80k on all my cars, i had one go in the past on a dif car, was the cam belt tentioner (the belt was fine, jus a crappy tentioner part,) and bent all my valves! not good! hope audi supports u on this!
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  6. #5
    rockminster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason_letts
    120,000 are you sure it was supposed to be changed then??


    Jason
    The point I've made to Audi is that because the service book says 120,000 it should have been good for another 40-50k before it needed to be changed.

    I haven't heard back from them yet.

  7. #6
    monkeytrousers's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure the S3 cambelt should be changed at 80,000. I'd check your service book again.

    Gutting, but at least you don't need a new engine.
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    isn't the service book quoted in Kilometres, not miles?


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    Well im pretty much certain that the cambelt service is at 75,000 as i just had mine done last weekend says in my service book 75k Miles


    Jason
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  10. #9
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    It says 115K for the "Toothed Belt for Camshaft" for the 4 cylinder 5V engine in my service book. 80k for the A4. Even if it WAS 75/80k it still shouldn't go at 73k. Surely Audi's limits come with a built in margin for safety?

    Rich

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    Think you guys need to look at the research i've done and posted up on the tt-forum....have a read of the below. (dont's forget S3s use a BAM engine as of MY01 or thereabouts which is when the recommendation changed to 80k)

    Some of you may have read the research i did over a year ago on cambelts, and the mess of information and pricing (particularly labour hours) that exists in the Audi main dealer network. Here's the link if you want to review:

    http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/ttforumbbs...ic.php?t=51526

    So we need evidence from official Audi sources on what the cambelt interval recommendation is....

    Well...the evidence i can contribute is not an official statement in writing of the current situation, but i can give evidence of what the cambelt intervals at least were as of late 2005...(and given the supposed issuing and deissuing of the 4 year statement irrespective of mileage, than i still believe these pieces of evidence to still be valid of the current situation....but its only my understanding..i may be wrong!)

    Anyway here goes

    Taken from ElsaWin - Audi's official in garage electronic reference manual, i investigated the official maintenance tables for the following:

    1 - a MY2000 TT Coupe with an APX (165 KW) engine eg, 225 quattro
    2 - a MY2002 TT Coupe with an BAM (165 KW) engine eg, 225 quattro
    3 - a MY2004 TT Coupe with an ARY (132 KW) engine eg, 180 quattro

    See this image for the MY2000 APX TT


    Notice all figures for mileage are in kilometres (Km), as can be quite clearly seen the official figure is 180000 Km...which if you do the conversion is 111,846 miles, but Audi Uk always round this to 115,000 miles.

    See this image for the MY2002 BAM (225 PS)TT


    Again , you can quite clearly see 120000 kilometres is the figure, which when converted is 74,564 miles...Audi UK round this to 80,000 miles.

    The change of interval as i understand came in in MY2001 which is roughly around 1/9/2000 when the BAM cars debuted(its around this time anyway) , however the advice changed and whether you were APX or BAM after the start of MY2001 it was officially 80000 miles.

    See this image for the MY2004 ARY (180PS) TT



    As far as i can see all 180 PS versions (and presumably 150 PS) versions of the TT have always been and remain in the maintenance tables at 180000 Km period as proven by the above screen shot.

    A small additional point is that nowhere in ElsaWin (at least my use of it anyway) does it mention a 5 year replacement interval....i however do agree that the concept of replacement irrespective of miles is a good thing...and i know Audi CS has given this info many times to callers...maybe there is a Technical Service bulletin somewhere that stipulates the five years, but i've not seen any evidence in the public domain.

    Additional evidence for the 80,000 miles recommendation for BAM engines at least comes from the Official Audi Maintenance Tables that were published (maybe they still are) on the audi.co.uk website. The screenshot below was took from an Aug 2005 dated xls downloaded from the website:




    Again quite clearly the 80,000 miles can be seen and no mention of 5 years etc...the only thing that seems to be time related is brake fluid service interval..although an AVS service itself is subject to a max period of 2 years.

    Also to back up what is officially printed in the service schedule booklet , look at these 2 images

    08/2000 printed service book additional work page



    Wak's example which i believe comes from at least a 2001 printed manual



    The key change is the addition of the small 1)..meaning we can give a broad brush statement of 115,000 miles because it makes printing all are service books easy!...however the real interval is dependent on your engine code and MY and we can't be bothered to print a definitive list!....OK perhaps i'm being a bit mean here, but without reading and thinking very carefully, all MY2001 and beyond 225 owners would be thinking myabe they are safe up to 115,000 miles........which of course they most certainly aren't!

    All the above while not the definitive current statement is hopefully something for you all to chew on. However none of this changes my view that replacement should be in the band 55 - 65k miles mark, and 5-6 years max depending on your viewpoint...my unmodified car has just been done at 62k and 5.5 years and the Waterpump impeller was in bits!!!!...the belt and tensioners were fine, just a slight stretching of the belt, but the waterpump is the weak link...get a nice metal impellered fitted like i did.

    What i would like to see is anyone who has WRITTEN proof of the 5 year statement on recommended interval....or any proof of the supposed four year rule that came out and was withdrawn ealrier this year....or any official Service bulletin that addresses what the current situation is!

    All comments welcome as always

    HTH

  12. #11
    tommo-turbo's Avatar
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    Very useful info that mate. Thanks! My S3's done just over 45k, but it's just turned 6 years old. So, going by your info, would you say I'm due a change?

    Rich

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    Tommo,

    Even with your low miles, at 6 years i would be inclined to get it changed regardless...cambelts are subject to perishing through the cycles of temperature that they go through, which is supposedly where the 5 year lifetime statement has come from (although as i said i've never seen this documented). It depends if your keeping your car mid/long term and also if you've chipped...if you have chipped i would definitely get it done in the band 50-55k max.

    At the end of it all for piece of mind its worth the 300-400ish cost at a good independent...as against the 1500 - 5000 plus for the dire alternative consequences

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    rockminster's Avatar
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    Update:

    Audi UK and Aylesbury Audi have combined to cover virtually all of the costs of repairs, leaving me with a bill just short of 300.

    Phew!

    Does that mean I'm getting a cambelt change for 300????

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    Out of interest rockminster, but how old is your S3?..is it a UK supplied car? and is it outside of warranty and does it have a full Audi main dealer service history?......if you answer these it might help others if they get in a similar position. Audi Uk are not really known for being very generous when outside of warranty with failing cambelts...or in fact whenever they can find an excuse not to pay up

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    ^^ No that means that your having any engine repairs caused by the snapped belt as well as a replacement belt and probably a quick glance over the rest of the car for 300....which is much better than just a cambelt change.

    Well done...quite a result I must say

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    Oh one more thing rockminster....ensure they replace the water pump (50ish), the tensioner pulley(which is pretty much a given) AND the tensioner damper (62+VAT) when they do the work..even if you have to pay the extra ....you don't want it to go again just because all they did was the cambelt itself...and then another bit breaks.

  18. #17
    rockminster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evotista
    Out of interest rockminster, but how old is your S3?..is it a UK supplied car? and is it outside of warranty and does it have a full Audi main dealer service history?......if you answer these it might help others if they get in a similar position. Audi Uk are not really known for being very generous when outside of warranty with failing cambelts...or in fact whenever they can find an excuse not to pay up
    My car is a UK supplied, 02 plate S3 (July 2002).
    It is outside of warranty by a year now (Nov 2006).
    It has got a full Audi main dealer service history.

  19. #18
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    Mt S3 has just turned 54k and it's approaching 7 years old, I've ordered the parts already for my cambelt tensioner and waterpump.



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    Quote Originally Posted by evotista
    Oh one more thing rockminster....ensure they replace the water pump (50ish), the tensioner pulley(which is pretty much a given) AND the tensioner damper (62+VAT) when they do the work..even if you have to pay the extra ....you don't want it to go again just because all they did was the cambelt itself...and then another bit breaks.
    I agree with this, don't just assume they'll do it either!!!

  21. #20
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    I'm going to get mine done soon as a precaution.

    I'm absolutely certain that Audi will NOT look favourably on early cam belt problems if the car's been remapped.
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    Sorry to hear about this dude, i hope Audi stump up the full amount!

    I've said this in numerous other threads, anyone that keeps their 'belt on for more than 60k/5 years is gambling. Irrespective of the car, and i mean not just 1.8T or even Audi's (except chain-cams obviously ).

    For the sake of 250 which you'll HAVE to do at some point i fail to see why anyone would take the risk.

    Audi servicing schedules are written to please bean counting fleet purchasers. It appears that common sense servicing of things like oil, coolant, cambelts and plugs have been forgotten. Some companies, notably Honda, still appear to recommend their engines are maintained properly.

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    That's an excellent result, how relieved are you?
    I think we should have this example stuffed and mounted as it would seem there is some element of customer service left at Audi UK/dealerships.
    Makes a change from the only too common tails of woe we usually experience on here.
    I also fail to understand why motor manufacturers insist that the traditional 1000 mile oil change is now not necessary on a brand new turbo charged car!
    When my old (new) 1.8T hit the 1000 mile mark I almost had to plead with Soton Audi to change the oil & filter. This is obviously just good practice, so why the hell do they make such an issue about not needing to do it. My mates TDi has done 22k miles from new on the original oil - just madness for the sake of £60. Similar situation with the water pump fiasco on a cambelt change, which nearly cost me my engine and did cost me £450 6 months after having the cambelt done.

  24. #23
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    FFS! I did my cambelt at 60k and 120k miles. It's just not worth the risk.
    The belt can still perish over time, so even if it hasn't clocked those miles it should still be done.

    I agree with Tallpaul 60k and/or 5 years is about right.

    The belts I've bought are only guaranteed for a year. I knew a guy who used to change his cambelt every year.

    I also find it frustrating that with cars I've looked at buying, a number of sellers have stated the cambelt had been done, but actually only the V-belts were done. So I wouldn't take anyones word for it if you're looking at buying or have recently bought a car.
    Check the history and/or look at the belt.

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    got me panicing now lol
    Car just did 52Kmiles and is just 5 years old! Will hold on a bit till after christmas and get the cambelt and water pump changed, as I only just bought the car 2 mmonths ago and have a audi used car warranty on it

  26. #25
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    Just had mine serviced the other day. Been getting it done every 7k. I think I'm gonna wait til my next service in the new year and then get it all done at the same time. I should be around the 50k mark then. I've found an excellent independant in the NW area if anyone's interested. Simon @ Central. Sh1t hot on diesel tuning too. His TDi Golf is extremely fast!

    Central VW/Audi - 0151 355 1246

  27. #26
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    where abouts in the northwest tommo-turbo?
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  28. #27
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    Ellesmere Port, just off the M53. Fair hike from Preston though, unfortunately. You'd have to get a quote for the work you want to justify the time and the petrol money!

  29. #28
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    ye it is a fair trek, thanks anyway

    how much should a cambelt, waterpump be from an auid specialist? would it be better if i got the original audi parts then got a quote for labour?
    im curious cos my S3 is approaching 52k.
    cheers
    2002 225 S3, metallic black, REVO, 18" RSTT alloys, goodyear Eagle F1s, silver leather heated seats, tinted windows, H&R spacers, black diamond grooved discs & Ferrodo DS2500 pads, BOSE system, xenons, forge DV, samco TIP & upper boost hoses.

  30. #29
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    Here in Australia the service book on my S3 reads 90,000 kms or 4 years, which ever comes first for the cam belt change.
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    Mine is 5 1/2yrs old with 33k mls on the clock. I spoke to the Audi dealer and she didnt know what needed changing and after 20mins she came back saying that it should be changed at 80k or 5yrs which ever is sooner. Estimated the cost at around £450.
    I will be changing my own over the new year period. Not difficult to do but never the less a bit time consuming

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    Gutted to hear about what happened!

    Personally I never leave a Cambelt on any longer than about 60-70k despite what the manufacturers say.

    Hope you get it sorted at a reasonable price.

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    I have an Audi TT 1.8 225bhp 2001.
    My service manual quotes 115000 miles for the cam belt change.
    I have taken it to Plymouth Audi since I purchased it in August 2007.
    The cam belt stripped at 86000 miles and the service advisor on checking their records admitted their mistake
    at not advising me of an update at my 57000 and 74000 mile services.
    They said to get it in to them and they would arrange a good will as it was their fault.
    I arranged at my own expense to get it to them to be done and now over a space of 4 to 5 weeks they are denying saying this to me.
    I got Audi UK involved and they advised me that they hold Plymouth Audi responsible for passing on this
    update. Plymouth Audi told me they are not legally responsible for passing on updates and the manager actually said that I should have looked on the the internet.
    In a meeting with the after sales manager, he told me that when they saw the car in 2007 they would have assumed that the car had had a cam belt change after 5 years so they would not have advised another change until 2011.
    I replied that the update had come into effect sometime in 2008 as advised by his staff and at 2 other main Audi dealers.
    The director in an email advised the update had come to them in Aug 2009 with effect in Sept 2009.
    How could the after sales manager know about the change in 2007 when his director has a much later date.

    Audi UK have now out of the blue came back and said there is no good will from them as the car is over 5 years old and they can not force Plymouth Audi to fix my car.

  34. #33
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    who really has the obligation to make sure your car is looked after properly though?

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    Mines on 19k miles and has just had a cam belt change, but it is a 2003 car...

  36. #35
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    never 100% rely on a garage, at the end of the day they see hundreds of cars in and out of their workshop every week, they will never pay particular attention to a single car, they cant afford to, and although you should have been advised about the change you should have queried the 115k cambelt interval as this is rediculously high, as all the comments above i would never expect a cambelt to last more then 80k thus change it at 70k regardless, as you are finding out totally not worth the risk

    if audi said they would fix it as a good will gesture and have gone back on their word then thats bad form, but if you have nothing in writing then id imagine you'll have a hard time getting anything out of them

    good luck though mate

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    Quote Originally Posted by AudiS3Dom View Post
    Mines on 19k miles and has just had a cam belt change, but it is a 2003 car...
    it is standard for a cambelt interval to have a "mileage or time limit, which ever comes first" range. so thats not unusual at all

  38. #37
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    IMHO...
    At the end of the day it is up to each and every one of us to maintain our own cars to the best of our abilities and knowledge.

    If you are in doubt as to what has or has not been done on your car then try and find out and even take it to a garage (dealer/specialist/backstreet local wideboy, wherever you feel comfortable) and get it checked over. Would you wait for the garage to advise you to top up the screen wash or check the oil level? No, so why wait with the big and important jobs?

    Maybe my opinion is skewed because I am in a relatively cushy position whereby I know the previous owner of my car so know/can find out what was and was not done over the past few years, also the previous owner and myself are mates with a couple of the mechanics at the local audi dealer since school days so have access to information, advice, and help if needed which in all honesty is a really big bonus however ultimately it is my responsibility.

    That said, I am truly sorry for the guys here whose pride and joy has been damaged / wrecked and especially those who find themselves seriously out of pocket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt82 View Post
    it is standard for a cambelt interval to have a "mileage or time limit, which ever comes first" range. so thats not unusual at all
    Exactly so even though op's car is on 73k(<80k), it's over due cos of age of car, is it not?

  40. #39
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    ive no idea how old the car is

  41. #40
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    Well obviously it has to be at least 7 years old!
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